bike for the poultry sum of £2300

There’s your problem – the maths is being done by chickens.[/quote]

Well I thought it was funny.

Why did the mines, the steelyards, the car manufacturers close down?

Because we could by it from somewhere else cheaper of course 😈

Most of the time I just want the problem fixed for the cheapest price though, innit?

Exactly – so, Next time there’s a thread on NHS pensions, next time there’s a thread on the Post Office workers rights being undermined, next time there’s a thread on Bin collections being outsourced to private sector, I’m going to point you back to this thread and call you a bloody Hypocrite! 😆

Please explain to me how a LBS is somehow less of a Capitalist Enterprise than CRC etc?

They have a different model. no one is saying that a bike shop is a charity, but they stock kit for you to try on before you buy, at significant extra cost to them than running a warehouse in Northern Ireland.

Part of the risk they run is that they are used as a ‘try before you buy’ free service before people go to CRC/wiggle for the cheapest price. Really they are at the mercy of their customers.

I’m not saying what you’re doing is wrong, Elfin, it’s just that striding in and demanding the cheapest price in the UK in a LBS when they have a completely different cost base and massively less buying power than the big boys isn’t that fair.

Me? I buy my sundries (tubes, tyres etc) from the bug boys – I know enough about bikes to know what the kit will do and what to buy – I don’t need a LBS for this service.

I do buy clothing etc from a shop, because I need to know if it will fit and can’t be arsed playing returns tennis via post with CRC.

I just think that the practice of taking up a shops time when you have no intention of buying when they could be spending time with a genuine customer is a bit harsh. so I’ll stand by what i sad, elfin, you’re being harsh.

Of course thats Thatcherism Fred, you’ve been telling us for years – pure unadulterated greed, getting the most you can for your money regardless of the consequences.

Oh sweet Juesus of Nazareth, you still don’t get it, do you? 🙄

My financial resources are finite and limited. I, and most people I suspect, do not have sufficient disposable income to act charitably towards a private business. Are they going to give me a significant discount because i have less money than someone else? No. Ergo, I go where I can get a better deal for me. I don’t have the luxury of choice. And neither do most others.

Now, either LBS’s recognise this fact, in these austere times, and adapt to the market, or they don’t survive. Simple economics.

Or should the Governemnt intervene, to bail out the localised cycle retail industry?

Do all youse criticising me and getting your knickers in a twist pay full RRP for every single thing you buy? Do you have all your bikes and components etc hand made for you by a local craftsman rather than seeing the money go abroad?

No, so be quiet, bunch of hypocrites….

so I’ll stand by what i sad, elfin, you’re being harsh.

I am indeed, You’re right. But you know what? Life’s harsh.Why should it be different for the LBS, than anyone else? Notice how the Tory Boys on here scream for public services to be cut etc, but woe betide anyone who dares suggest any part of the private sector needs to buck it’s ideas up, eh? 😆

Next time there’s a thread on NHS pensions, next time there’s a thread on the Post Office workers rights being undermined, next time there’s a thread on Bin collections being outsourced to private sector, I’m going to point you back to this thread and call you a bloody Hypocrite!

See my point above, Labby. Read it. Think about it. Then try to understand instead of trying to score points all the time.

And try to think about how the LBS’s can be helped, rather than having a pop at me to try to help feel better about yourself.

I’ve had a think about it, why not try doing the same?

What about a tax on online sales? Would that not help the LBS?

Or would that stand in the way of Maggie’s Free Market Enterprise dream?

My financial resources are finite and limited.

So are mine, but the Government keep taking money off me to pay for public sector type stuff, and then borrowing even more and expecting me to pay for it like 😉

I, and most people I suspect, do not have sufficient disposable income to act charitably towards a private business.

Why should we act charitably towards anyone, why should my taxes pay for someone else to get free operations and stuff? its all self, self, self innit 😉

Now, either LBS’s recognise this fact, in these austere times, and adapt to the market, or they don’t survive. Simple economics.

How about public sector unions and employee’s recognise it too eh?

should the Governemnt intervene, to bail out the localised cycle retail industry?

Fred – you still don’t get it do you? Thats exactly what Thatcher refused to do with the Miners, innit!

we’ll say it again for you:

Why did the mines, the steelyards, the car manufacturers close down?

Because we could by it from somewhere else cheaper of course

Maybe the govt might bail the nations LBS’s out one day like the financial sector.

Or not.

Well I’d like to go through with the sale with this place as they’ve been most helpful. If I get the price matched, then it gives me money in my pocket to spend on other things, such as the two helmets & a nice set of pedals (all will be purchased in this same store).

The bikes are both a 2011 model. One is a proper LBS and the other is a Specialized Concept Store but I’d still say pretty local as everyone and their dog rides the big S around here (watching a dog ride a bike is hilarious by the way)

So; a LBS does have something to offer that an online retailer does not in any way, after all then? So there is added value in shopping at a LBS?

In your example, you took the value that was added by the LBS (they had a physical product you could try on) but you gave them nothing. Not a capital offense, but you should be doing time 👿

Why should we act charitably towards anyone, why should my taxes pay for someone else to get free operations and stuff?

See, the thing you’ve missed (and it’s a big one), is that whether I spend my money in a LBS or online, it’s still going into the economy. Basically, more is being spent on cycling anyway, and the online retailers have added to that. So the balance of power is being shifted from the high street to online retailers. Money’s still going into the economy though, is not it? And those industries are still paying taxes, aren’t they?

So forget the public service comparison cos it’s invalid. Totally irrelevant to this argument. We’re talking about private sector vs private sector, so quite why you’ve involved comparison with the public sector I have no idea. This iuzzunt about political ideology no matter how much you want it to be, it’s about simple economics.

Seems you jolly well have not got that point yet, in spite of me pointing it out to you several times now.

whether i spend my money in a LBS or online, it’s still going into the economy Basically, more is being spent on cycling anyway, and the online retailers have added to that. So the balance of power is being shifted from the high street to online retailers.

I suppose it duzzunt really matter whether ambulance drivers and bin collectors are employed by the public sector either duzzit, coz that money’s still going into the economy – thats your argument that is!

Money’s still going into the economy though, is not it? And those industries are still paying taxes, aren’t they?

No, course not – them big companies find a way out of all the taxes, its like Tesco and Vodafone, innit!

Tell me Fred – why do you think online retailers sell it cheaper, its coz their overheads are lower – that absolutely shoots through your own point in one easy step – their overheads are LOWER, cos there is less money going in wages, rent and taxes – thats hows they operate like!

Zulu-Eleven – Member

..your making a bigger tit of yourself with every subsequent post mate.

As the saying goes ..

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt

Well, no, cos for example CRC or Merlin will buy OE stuff direct from Shimano, (or Commencal, or whoever) so you’ve just put the distributor out of a job

So how do we takle this problem then? Surely there needs to be increased solidarity within the whole cycling trade then? Somewhat difficult, considering they’re all businesses essentially competing with one another…

What about companies like On-One, what source stuff directly from abroad, sell only online, undercut the competition and I’d imagine do ok? Aren’t they the same as the Evil CRC etc?

there is less money going in wages, rent and taxes – thats hows they operate like!

What about all the delivery drivers who drive stuff all over the UK? What about their wages and taxes?

So are you saying the economy is benefiting less from online retailers like CRC than LBS’s then? Got any figures to prove this?

See, instead of trying to stupidly score points, Labby, I’m presenting the harsh reality of the current economic situation, then looking for ways we can find possible solutions. All you’re doing is trying to get one over someone on the internet. Cos, like, that’s so big and brave. 🙄

And what about the notion of imposing taxes on online sales? Oh no sorry I forgot you don’t like taxes, do you?

😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

Turning into a very funny thread – unscripted, ironic genius. Excellent!!

The UK cycling market has expanded rapidly over the past couple of years and is now worth over £2.15 billion, new research suggests.

…..

For their Project Velo report, Allegra Strategies looked at consumer spending on bikes and accessories. They estimate that by 2015, the value of the market will exceed £3 billion – and that doesn’t include money spent on things like cycling holidays and race entries.

So, with cycling being a ‘growing market’, surely this will benefit the UK economy increasingly over the coming years?

And in an expaynding market, surely there is place for the LBS? No?

And CRC* and Wiggle both started out as small independent retailers, yet through prudence and smart business acumen, have grown exponentially into hugely successful companies. Surely this is the Capitalist Dream? No? Be better than the competition, eliminate the competition, operate a monopoly- power ensured.

So; limit just how big a LBS can get via the introduction of legislation perhaps? But surely that would interfere with the Free Market model?

Evans are looking a bit too big; time to reel them in? Limit their ability to grow?

*Don’t CRC just have the one retail outlet? So am I not ultimately supporting a Local Bike Shop? One which is based in an economically deprived part of the UK, at that? One which employs local people in that area, thus contributing to the Local Economy?

I’m a bit confuddled. What to do, eh? 😐

Sigh….

I’m presenting the harsh reality of the current economic situation, then looking for ways we can find possible solutions.

How about we all stop thinking about the short term benefit of pennies in our pockets and All start using the LBS… they get more trade and can possibly start to leverage this, pass on cheaper products to us and still offer that great service?

I’d like to, TSY, I’d like to, but if CRC have what I need for cheaper, it’s very difficult to. 🙁

Oh, and the less I spend on bike stuffs, the more I have left to spend in the local shops here! 😮

So, ultimately, CRC is actually helping the local economy where I live! Winner! 😀

(Feels much better about self now)

it’s very difficult to

Yep, I hear that. It takes a big man to set aside their own greed for the benefit of the local community.

Luckily you’ve found a way of reconciling this. 😆

Sorry Elfin – your defence of Wiggle and CRC only seem to be supporting my point that deep down at heart, you’re a Thatcherite, despite all the faux left wing bollox that you continually spout on this site.

Your focus on, and I’ll use your words:

Business is business; dog eat dog. My priority is to myself, I can’t be concerned with the profit margins of others.

Is the capitalist, right wing, free market dream come real – competition reduces prices, bang on – seriously, seeing statements like that come from Lefties gives me wood, because seeing you say that proves to me that we’ve won 😈

Oh dear. She’s babbling now. 😐

you’re a Thatcherite

I’m afraid not Labby. No matter how much you scream and stamp your feet. 😆

I do live in a society where Thatcherite policies have helped dictate the way we shop, however. That does not in any way make me a Thatcherite I’m afraid. Soz to wee on your chips. 😐

Let’s see now, my money, need to buy something, where from, various options, one cheaper than other with no disadvantages or penalties, overall economy still benefits, ah….

That’s about it done now. The best way to help my local economy is to spend less elsewhere.

Simples. 😀

What’s better, a cycling Thatcherite or a non-cycling Socialist? Just wondering.

Well That’s a huge price difference and too big to ignore if it’s a like for like comparison .

Problem with price matching is that the LBS will give you advice regarding which bike suits your needs best , fits you etc . Then they will sell you the bike . Then they will carry out after sales service , free service , correct eny problems , cable stretch , suspension set up etc .

Now I appreciate that many experienced cyclists may not need these services to the same degree as a beginner but when you price match the LBS with the internet you are comparing somebody who will carry out all phases of selling a bike and not just selling it only .

One thing that might help is to go to your LBS and tell them what you’re going to order online and at what price and ask if they’ll order it in for you.

Bike 1 – £3200

Bike 2 – £2300

Both identical.

So some of you would spend the extra £900? Right then. I’m sure you would! You’re either liars or **** loaded. If it is the latter I’ll send you my address so you can throw some more money away for bugger all!

Problem with price matching is that the LBS will give you advice regarding which bike suits your needs best , fits you etc . Then they will sell you the bike . Then they will carry out after sales service , free service , correct eny problems , cable stretch , suspension set up etc .

Don’t tell Labby right, cos it’ll ruin his day, but every bike I’ve ever bought (bar from one frame) has bin from a LBS, and probbly about 90% of all the money I’ve spent on new bike stuff has bin spent in LBS’s.

People like me are why LBS owners can’t afford to feed their children. It’s so sad. 😥

Should I stop buying second hand stuff cos of the huge negative effect on the economy? But what about the negative effect on the planet, of too much stuffs being made and not enough recycling?

Oh it’s not easy this, is it?

Let’s see now, my money, need to buy something, where from, various options, one cheaper than other with no disadvantages or penalties, overall economy still benefits, ah….

Maybe not to you, but how about to wider society, eh Freddie?

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muz1OcEzJOs[/video]

Why can’t independents form a buying cooperative? Independent electrical retailers have with the Euronics idea allowing them to compete with the big sheds. A thriving shop I know is the hub of a successful club (cycleopedia and JIF in cardiff), and thru the club they provide coaching sessions on track etc. LBS need to exploit their USP; service. Anyone who has bought anything from CRC or wiggle or any other mail order discounter is a hypocrite bashing elfin, because you’ve shopped on the basis of price to your own benefit and to the detriment of your local retailer.
I’m a liberal minded public sector worker but this debate is about rivals in a private sector consumerism driven business.
900 quid is too much to be principled about.

So some of you would spend the extra £900? Right then. I’m sure you would! You’re either liars or **** loaded. If it is the latter I’ll send you my address so you can throw some more money away for bugger all!

I’m neither, but when I make a deal I stick to it…it’s a simple thing but one that few people seem to stick with these days…I’ve no doubt spent over the odds on some things over the years but I’m happy with my decisions…a fair number of mates I know are the same…guess it depends on your values/beliefs…at the end of the day, the service you get (including the product) is the thing your money is paying for…so as long as I you feel as though you have gained a good deal then there isn’t an issue.

I’m not anti-LBS or anti-online (likewise I’m not pro- either of them either)…they both work very well…but they are completely different things and I use them both but for different things.

Elfinsafety – Member

I’d like to, TSY, I’d like to, but if CRC have what I need for cheaper, it’s very difficult to

I suppose the bit I don’t get, is if you want the online price why don’t just you buy online rather than go into a shop try something on then ask for the online price? It’s not something I would do for any product, bike related or not, if I want the online price I buy online.

Sounds like you want it both ways.

I did hear of a story that retailers in Australia were ‘charging’ for people to try on shoes, then taking that ‘charge’ off the price if they bought them. Don’t know if it worked mind.

Maybe not to you, but how about to wider society, eh Freddie?

I’ve explained this several times, not that you bother to read owt, always looking for some way to outdo me (which you’ve never ever achieved on here don’t know why you persist quite frankly 🙄 ):

Finite sum of money. Less money spent on bike stuffs = more money spent with local businesses close to me. 😀

So, same amount of money spent in total. Simple maffs really.

Anyone who has bought anything from CRC or wiggle or any other mail order discounter is a hypocrite bashing elfin, because you’ve shopped on the basis of price to your own benefit and to the detriment of your local retailer…

….this debate is about rivals in a private sector consumerism driven business.

At last; someone who can think things through rationally and objectively. Thank you. 🙂

Whatever – I’m not reading all that lot (too many quotes)

But…

I wouldn’t take the piss from a bricks and mortar shop by trying on gear there – then buying online.

That’s the line. Look.

——————————————————————————————–

sc-xc +1

And that’s the crux for me when it comes to buying

Fred’s reverse gears are crunching.

I suppose the bit I don’t get, is if you want the online price why don’t just you buy online rather than go into a shop try something on then ask for the online price?

I asked if they would match the price (or even get close to it) that several other retailers including indy shops were doing them for, but then they said they only matched ‘normal’ retail prices. The irony is, that a few weeks later they then have exactly the same product I asked them to PM, for less than the discounted sale price I bought them for anyway. 😆

So, had they PMed the shoes that day, they’duv ultimately ended up with more money through their till than the No Sale they did get or even their eventual sale price. Hey ho.

And now, cosov that, I may now choose not to shop with them again, so they’ve potentially missed out on any future sales to me as well. Remember that bit about keeping customers happy…?

Fred’s reverse gears are crunching.

No, that’s your brain, trying to keep uop. I’m steaming Full Speed Ahead mate. 😉

(Did you see what I did there? Do you like it? Good, weren’t it? 🙂 )

I’m steaming Full Speed Ahead mate.

I believe the phrase is “I’m keeping digging”

Oh, you din’t get it.

😐

Never mind….

Got owt intelligent to add, or just yer usual rubbish?

No, thought not. Off you go now please, thanks.

No, thought not. Off you go now please, thanks.

No actually I think I’ll hang around, pop in every now again just to see how you’re doing on this one. 😆

And don’t forget “Simple economics, innit? Buy wherever is cheapest.”, I think that quote might come back to haunt you.

This is simple, be resonable ask them to price match, if they can’t go else where assuming your deposit isn’t bigger than 900 quid.

Not a moral dilema at all, you’re not being underhand and you don’t owe anyone a living. Not sure why some people treat bike shops as a charity?

If I went to our customers at work and asked them to pay nearly 40% extra for the same product they’d laugh in my face, and rightly so!

Elf, I can see the irony in that especially if they advertise a price match option and also notice that you spend most of your money in LBSs 🙂 but just to re-quote what you said earlier and to try to explain where I’m coming from:

No bike shop gets my business unless they’re at least pretty close to what I can get something for online. Recently went to a bike shop (expaynding chain actually), tried some shoes on, asked them to price match the sale price most other retailers were offering, they said no, I walked out and bought them online. So, used their facilities to try on for size, yet they get no benefit at all. Despite offering a ‘price match’ service

Now because your first sentence mentioned online, I took that as the context and therefore you were asking for price matching against online, subsequently you have said

several other retailers including indy shops

which changes the slant quite a bit.

So here is a question for you; there’s a jacket you would like rrp £120, you know the online retailers have it at £72 (40% discount unlikely to be price matched by an indy lbs). Do you buy it online or do you go try them out for size first in an indy lbs?