How Much Does Price Matching Hurt The LBS?

Morality, unless supported in Law, is nothing more than the onion of individuals. Who are you or anyone else to impose your moral standards on me? What makes you so self-righteous?

Holy **** Elfin! Are you about to quit STW or something??!?!?!!!??

Just went into LBS – bought (slightly expensive) inner tubes and bike cleaner. Had some ok advice on new bike BUT found out they do free demo’s. So that was worth saving the £50 on most other shops. Demo booked for next wed – so do I try the top fuel, ex-8 or remedy?

Silver linings here Elfin!! Bet you didn’t think your post would generate such a reaction!!!

TBH, I don’t think Shimano are bothered overly about the end price – they’re probably much more bothered about brand reputation and support. They want their derailleurs to be properly packed in a good box with instructions, for example, not chucked into a sandwich bag.

What was the On-One question?

I’d say you’re right there Ben.

Holy **** Elfin! Are you about to quit STW or something??!?!?!!!??

No why are you?

TBH, I don’t think Shimano are bothered overly about the end price – they’re probably much more bothered about brand reputation and support.

I’d imagine their primary concern is to make money, tbh…

Elfinsafety – Member
What’s up Hilldodger; bored of stalking folk on Facebook?

Well more fool me, I actually thought you may have some interesting photos/artwork on your page what with claiming to be a creative person and that.
And, having met once on a stw ride thought I’d send you a FR – if that’s stalking then I have a half used roll of Bacofoil if your old hat has worn out………..

…….and it’s really poor form to start foruming stuff that happens elsewhere, manners please 🙄

Why would you think I’d want communication with someone who’s made snidey comments towards me for much of the time I’ve bin on this forum? I certainly don’t recall ever having met you.

Email in profile if you really must discuss this.

No why are you?

No disrespect Elfy but being self-righteous and the desire to impose your personal moral standards on others is a racket you seem to have sewn up.

Or is it all done with the aim of having an argument?

I don’t know, but I’ve got a copy of CSI to watch and those prawn vol au vents won’t cook themselves.

I’d imagine their primary concern is to make money, tbh…

Well, to the extent that that’s the primary concern of any business. But of course that’s not just about getting the most money for your product, it’s about making sure that you can sell more products in the future, and that the people who buy your products are happy with them, and with the support they get. So the end consumer price is only one part of it.

Shimano (like most other manufacturers) have worked out that it’s better for their own long-term success to have one distributor handling everything, for the reasons I’ve given. As a retailer, it’s always a pain when products shift from one distributor to the other – the new distributor needs time to build up stocks and learn about servicing, the old distributor often punts out stock and seconds cheap to get rid of them, and there’s confusion about what happens to warranties and the like.

And I’m still wondering what the On-One question was 🙂

TSY; I’m not self-righteous, I’m just right. 😉

I’ve got a copy of CSI to watch and those prawn vol au vents won’t cook themselves.

Excellent! But watch out for those vol-au-vents. Don’t leave them out then reheat them, or you’ll be very very ill.

And I’m still wondering what the On-One question was

On-One are a small company who import stuff directly from the Far East, sell only online, and offer quite significant discounts over other retailers, quite often. I was asking how they differed from CRC, Wiggle, etc, who are ‘evil’ cos they undercut the LBS’s all the time, leading to the ‘problem’ of scum like me trying stuff on in a shop then going and buying it online.

Or something.

I dunno. TSY’s mentioned prawns, and I’m suddenly distracted….

I don’t think On-One are much different – as you say, another online retailer selling stuff cheap, it’s the retail climate we have to work in at the moment.

The stickers did fall off my Mk.1 Tinbred after a week, though – shoddy workmanship 🙂

May be relevant. https://twitter.com/bikerumor/status/152771542214914049

Interesting – yes, the barcode scanning apps take it to a whole new level, letting you order from somewhere cheaper before you’re even out of the store.

That’s a very interesting article actually, Brant.

Here rather than having to go via Twatter:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/12/30/specialized-founder-mike-sinyard-blasts-amazons-price-check-app/

Here’s how it works: when in your shop, consumers simply scan a bar code, type in the product name or take a picture to see the product and prices from a variety of online retailers. After ensuring they have the right fit by trying on the product in your store, and talking to your staff, they can buy it from somebody else with the press of a button.

😀

(Scuttles off to buy smart ‘phone and download app)

Cheers Mr Elf. I was posting from my “smartphone” on the train.

This thread has just reminded me that I’m still out of pocket because of some thieving sod who took a Brompton for a test ride and never came back. Bastard.

Anyhow, carry on…

I was posting from my “smartphone” on the train.

I think a ‘smartphone’ might be a bit too clever for me, so I need an i(diot)Phone…

This thread has just reminded me that I’m still out of pocket because of some thieving sod who took a Brompton for a test ride and never came back. Bastard.

Console yourself with the fact that they’ll need loads of spensive new bits on a regular basis, to replace the tat that’s failed, plus they’ll be hated and despised, even spat at in the face*, for riding a Brompton…

*And rightly so; and rightly so.

😉

Worth remembering that the bikerumour/specialized comments are written from a very US standpoint, where retail price maintenance is not illegal, rather than the EU, where it is very strictly frowned upon.

Re. The app which has upset Mr Specialized – Would anyone here actually be cheeky enough to scan the barcode of an item while in a bike shop?

I know I wouldn’t.

Ha, true 🙂 Does that mean I can pimp my Rohloff Disc Bromptons? No tat on them…

[/url]
Rohloff Disc Brompton 6[/url] by Ben Cooper[/url], on Flickr

Re. The app which has upset Mr Specialized – Would anyone here actually be cheeky enough to scan the barcode of an item while in a bike shop?

I know I wouldn’t.

I wouldn’t either, but having done my time working in a couple of shops I think we’d be in the minority.

Would anyone here actually be cheeky enough to scan the barcode of an item while in a bike shop?

Ooh, that’s a tricky one!

Only one way to find out- FIGHT!

😀

Regarding the app – why don’t bike shops themselves use it?

If they’re much cheaper than their competitors… increase their prices. Much more expensive, then lower them. It would soon stop being in anyone’s interest to undercut each other, unless deliberately trying to bully competitors out of the market place…

Mike Sinyard seems to be encouraging the stocking of Spesh stock over his competitor’s, because they only sell through IBDs. The problem there is that there is often a price difference between IBDs on their kit anyway, and IBDs do sell online.

Amazon are not the first to do this – I’ve had Shop Savvy on my phone for over two years and it does more or less the same job. Give it a coupe off years and buying any medium to big ticket item without doing a price comparison will seem bizarre.

The key is to add enough value that bricks and mortar retail is worthwhile.

Why should we feel guilty for finding the best price. We work hard and want the best we can get for our hard earnt money – nothing wrong with that. Anyway when I have price matched at my LBS………..I always end up buying something else at full price so a price match results in extra revenue for the LBS. Nothing wrong in that!

Why should we feel guilty for finding the best price. We work hard and want the best we can get for our hard earnt money – nothing wrong with that.

No, but that doesn’t necessarily justify taking the pi$$ out of your LBS, which is what you’re doing if you go and check out the goods there first before buying from somebody who doesn’t have that overhead.

Sue W covered this better earlier though.

In my experience, if the LBS is competitive in its pricing……..people will pay a little more to know a) they are supporting the LBS and b) they can rely on the aftersales. However if they are pricing themselves out of the market then people will behave as you describe (MrSalmon), rightly or wrongly.

More support with regards to rent and rates for small business is whats really needed so that they have a more level playing field to compete with the larger retail organisations and thats a wider issue than just LBS.

Why should we feel guilty for finding the best price. We work hard and want the best we can get for our hard earnt money – nothing wrong with that.

Just to put that in a “normal shopping” context – would you feel it is more socially responsible to shop in Waitrose, where the staff are a little better paid, own the business, get a share in the profits, are overall better treated with a better pension and health care etc, than to buy in Tesco or ASDA, where the profits go to shareholders and the staff are worse off, the farmers get a lower price, but you save, literally, a few pennies on a basket of shopping.

Zulu-Eleven I am not in a position to shop in Waitrose. I choose Sainsburys as I find the product is better quality and does not damage my wallet half as much!

There are many factors that you have to consider…….just because you are in a position to shop with such high regards to others, doesn’t mean we all are. We would all like to, but what we like and what we can do are to very different things. Life is always a compromise.

Z11 – you are highlighting some interesting aspects of difficult/confused logic all over the place. Quite a fun thread really!!

Outthere – Hey, don’t think for one second that I’m in a position to not look after my pennies, I’ll guarantee I earn a lot less than the median, but its me who’s the self avowed right wing nutter, and even I can see the principles at play here that always buying the cheapest has pretty extensive knock on effects within wider society…

THM – yeah, I think that its quite interesting that the ‘lefties’ are very keen to personally benefit from the evils of the cut-throat capitalist society that they constantly tell us they despise 😉

The end result is that price matching discourages cutting prices, and encourages the stabilisation of prices.

You get an informal cartel where the consumer is acting to make sure every retailer gets the information they need.

Just read your posts on this thread, very interesting.

It struck me that something was wrong with these price-match apps and what you’ve said makes a lot of sense.

But would prices stabilise at a level that would allow the small operators to continue to exist? Is there any precedent?

I think that its quite interesting that the ‘lefties’ are very keen to personally benefit from the evils of the cut-throat capitalist society that they constantly tell us they despise

Lefty singular, please.

I agree but the government are the only ones who can assist here. Human nature is what it is and if people have to watch the pennies then they will go cheap.

As I said ealier though……..the majority of people will pay a few pounds more to support their LBS. If the LBS are competitively priced, people will come. It doesn’t mean they have to price match as people know you get more from your LBS than your online retailer and most people will repect that and pay a little more.

Outthere – Hey, don’t think for one second that I’m in a position to not look after my pennies, I’ll guarantee I earn a lot less than the median, but its me who’s the self avowed right wing nutter, and even I can see the principles at play here that always buying the cheapest has pretty extensive knock on effects within wider society…

Well said Z-11! I find I’m continually doing battle with my conscience when buying anything these days. Yes, we all need to look at the bigger picture.

I used one of those barcode apps in my shop. A mug came up as an exhaust pipe, so not sure how good they are.
Couple of years back we had that Don’t Get Done Get Dom bloke come in the shop. He wanted cheap chocolates.
One of our ladies who had no idea who was ,tore a strip off of him. Needless to say he paid full whack.
She later referred to him as a “ghastly little barrow boy”!
In our shop we don’t take the piss on our pricing but we find it hard to compete with the garden centres. If the companies let the small shops have stuff at the same price as the big boys we would immediately pass on the saving.
A buyer for tesco told us that they make 500% on their non grocery stuff. The half price sale doesn’t look so good now does it?
Until a few years ago we sold a lot of craft stuff. Hobby craft turned up a few miles away, took most of our business and closed 5 local craft shops. Now the Hobbycraft has closed and left no craft shops. So we get the craft people coming back and moaning that we don’t sell craft anymore.

A buyer for tesco told us that they make 500% on their non grocery stuff. The half price sale doesn’t look so good now does it?

I very much doubt that. They might make 500% on some lines, but by and large they’ll be doing between 10-70% depending on what it is. Branded FMCG clobber, shower gel, razors etc. will be making very little for them in terms of margin but running at huge volumes.

Exceptional things like own label mobile phone chargers, cables for plugging your ipod into the car etc. will be costing them < £1 to get but sell at a fiver, but they’re not moving many of them…

THM – yeah, I think that its quite interesting that the ‘lefties’ are very keen to personally benefit from the evils of the cut-throat capitalist society that they constantly tell us they despise

I think it’s quite interesting that you make stuff up in your own head to suit your own agenda, rather than actually considering what others have to say in any intelligent manner.

Just to put that in a “normal shopping” context – would you feel it is more socially responsible to shop in Waitrose, where the staff are a little better paid, own the business, get a share in the profits, are overall better treated with a better pension and health care etc, than to buy in Tesco or ASDA, where the profits go to shareholders and the staff are worse off, the farmers get a lower price, but you save, literally, a few pennies on a basket of shopping.

Why not just go directly to the farmer, rather than them have to sell his wares to the big supermarkets? That way you can give him the best price for his meat and eggs and milk.

Loving the hypocrisy of criticising someone for using an online retailer, then banging on about a supermarket. Waitrose still exercise their economic power to drive prices down to a level they are happy to buy their produce at, make no mistake. They may be marginally better than others, but that’s about it. Still a business at the end of it, aren’t they?

And as I’ve pointed out, buying from CRC helps the economy of a deprived part of the UK. They employ quite a number of local people I’d imagine, and contribute towards the local economy of that area. Or are you going to make up some argument against that fact? 🙄

Our growth continued and by 2008 we were the largest employer in the local area with even more staff than the newly built ASDA! We are Royal Mail’s largest customer in Northern Ireland and Parcel Force’s largest export account.

Oh nd they also sponsor race teams, and have supported cycle sport for ages:

CRC organised some of the first ever downhill races in Ireland and put together the first ever Northern Ireland Downhill series

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Help.aspx?HelpTopicID=128

All from a little family run business. Suddenly, they don’t look quite so evil after all…

Re the barcode apps & looking at bricks & mortar shops to then buy on the web.

First lets say this is fair & dandy to side step the arguing.

So we all toddle off to the high street to check out sizing/quality/ appearance etc, & then use our smart phones to find & order on-line. So after a few weeks/months/years the retailer calls it a day & closes, no loss he wasn’t the cheapest anyway. This goes on until all the high streets are just an endless procession of coffee shops, eateries & bookmakers.

Then what happens?

And don’t say the high street should just compete on prices because that doesn’t work, any idiot can set up a reselling company from their bedroom with absolutely no overheads.

Cheers.