Tooundred! 😀

Comefollowme…

This goes on until all the high streets are just an endless procession of coffee shops, eateries & bookmakers.

Then what happens?

We have plenty of places to get a coffee, a bite to eat and have a flutter on the 3.30 at Chepstow?

No?

Why not just go directly to the farmer

You’re aware of the history of ASDA (pre wal-mart) and Morrisons I take it Fred? 😉

So Fred – like I said, is it more socially responsible to buy from Tesco or Waitrose (who own loads of farms too)? Clearly Waitrose/JLP aren’t just another profit making company – the profit goes to the workers, the workers control the means of production, this is the VERY ethos of socialism. anyone with any form of left wing credentials should be firmly rooted to that goal.

I bet you buy fair-trade bananas too Fred? 😉

If your LBS was someone like, oh, I don’t know, Edinburgh Bike Co-Operative, would you maybe pay a little more and use them?

I just wish you were able to see how your own argument about how you spend your money shoots down everything you keep telling us about society, public sector spending and all that stuff. why should your money be treated any differently from our money

Just imagine if I said that we should outsource the fire brigade or ambulances to the cheapest bidder, because cost was the only thing that mattered… you’d be on me like a rabid dog 🙄

Elf, you said this a number of times:

I also mentioned this, but again, no response

in relation to this:

On-One are a small company who import stuff directly from the Far East, sell only online, and offer quite significant discounts over other retailers, quite often. I was asking how they differed from CRC, Wiggle, etc, who are ‘evil’ cos they undercut the LBS’s all the time, leading to the ‘problem’ of scum like me trying stuff on in a shop then going and buying it online.

Not sure if it’s aimed at me, but anyway just in case:

– I’ve never said CRC, Wiggle etc are evil
– I haven’t called you scum
– I don’t think I’ve been snidey

I think on-one are a great example of what can be done, totally helps you have a designer called Brant designing bikes with a usp, get’s the brand known upon which they can build.

But just to re-iterate; I’m not against getting the best price whether online or in a shop, but what I wouldn’t do is try on something with the intention of buying online, for me this goes against a core value.

So if I see a jacket that I like online that is heavily discounted from rrp I’ll buy it, if it’s the wrong fit (which hasn’t happened yet as I know my size) I’ll get it exchanged, probably going to be still less than rrp, plus the petrol, traipsing around and time taken.

Elfinsafety – Member

Tooundred!

Comefollowme…

arh shit I keep missing these 🙁

2unfit – funnily enough I was thinking something similar, but along the lines of what if the retailers stopped stocking stuff that had to be tried on for size, how would we cope?

i love going into bike shops. online dont cut it for me as i want to hold and play with stuff before i buy. i bought my cooker from the local electrical store as i saw it and went in. they delivered it that day = winner. yeah i could have probably got it cheaper in comet or somewhere but they ticked all my wants.
i hate hassle. i brought wheels once from dave hinde after seeing an ad in mbuk as the best wheelebuilder or something. never again

i brought wheels once from dave hinde

There’s ya problem

So Fred – like I said, is it more socially responsible to buy from Tesco or Waitrose (who own loads of farms too)?

I shop here:

🙂

If your LBS was someone like, oh, I don’t know, Edinburgh Bike Co-Operative, would you maybe pay a little more and use them?

Definitely (as long as it’s not too much more). But they’re not. My LBS is an Evans…

I just wish you were able to see how your own argument about how you spend your money shoots down everything you keep telling us about society, public sector spending and all that stuff.

Sigh. I’m on about choosing between two private sector retailers, not between a private company and a state run one. Hence your silly argument there is worthless and invalid. So please stop banging on about it, you’re getting very boring.

Not sure if it’s aimed at me

It probbly weren’t so don’t fret. 🙂

bike shops buy in stuf from distributors. the distributors chuck out the stuff at the end of the year at stoopid prices leaving the lbs stock as worthless at retail and end up selling at less than they paid.

Elfinsafety – Member

We have plenty of places to get a coffee, a bite to eat and have a flutter on the 3.30 at Chepstow?

No?

Come on, play the game & give us your answer.

I mean, I have been courteous to you right? There have been moments that I would of liked to of said that you were a self-righteous self-serving opinionated jumped up little **** that is wrapped up in their own self-importance, but I have so far refrained… 😉

What makes you think you’re worthy of a response? 😕

‘How Much Does Price Matching Hurt The LBS’…causes LBS to cut overheads i.e wages which prevents attracting and keeping hold of good knowledgeable staff.
You’d think in these times people would be falling over themselves for a job,especially under 21’s.Where I used to work we looked for shop floor staff for 3 months.We either got muppets who could’nt tie their own shoelaces or “I can get paid more working in Mcdonalds/Tesco”.
Given most of the appalling technical (mis)advice dished out on here there’s still a plenty of need for ‘professionals’.

What makes you think you’re worthy of a response?

That’s some ego going on there 🙄

Are you new here, Woody?

🙂

Only 9 years or so Cap’n 😉

Kill file then?About 90% of the posts on my computer are blank…..

I’ll say it again. Our little warrior of the people knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

Karma will get him if his own bile doesn’t rise up and drown him first.

Rorschach – Member
Kill file then?About 90% of the posts on my computer are blank…..

Hello, hello, can you hear me? 😉

Are you using the one IanMunro done, or have things moved on?

Cheers.

(Peeks in to see if there’s any intelligent responses, nope. Isn’t really surprised, considering the recent posters. Goes off to make bacony courgetty auberginey mushroomy stuff for supper)

Smally update for anyone not caught in the vortex of a slagging match (which failed to make it to PM after I asked)

Where I had found the £2300, the bike shop were advertising as having them but when questioned, didn’t. So I didn’t have a price match from them. The shop in question however, did some research off their own backs & got back to me offering £2800. Now, tomorrow I shall phone them and happily accept that offer as £400 is a fair whack of cash still to have knocked off. Long live Cheesecake!

Cheers gents/ladies/unknowns.

I sell them at £2,100 when I don’t have them in stock.

Mate, get over yerself, get a life and stop with the ad hominem crap; where have I insulted you or made insinuations as to your mental health/drug habits or whatever? Why the need to sink to such petty bitchiness? Pathetic.

As before; you got owt you want to say to me, my email’s in my profile.

If you type elfin safety into google images and scroll down to Page 2, it appears that this thread http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/any-woodworking-experts-got-any-tips-for-elf got a bit out of hand.

Now, tomorrow I shall phone them and happily accept that offer as £400 is a fair whack of cash still to have knocked off.

I love a happy ending 😉

just some random bits:

1. Reckon new cyclists are mush more likely to use an LBS in order to get face to face advice – LBS should (if they are good) always be able to offer a better experience than online

2. Over time for enthusiasts supply of bikes and parts is likely in the main by online as euthusiasts know (or think they know!) what they want and do not need LBS help

3. LBS will have to evolve from being suppliers to service centres to fit, service bikes and parts bought elsewhere for those than either do not have the time and/or skill to do their own spannering.. Servicing is one of the things that on line will not be able to directly compete with LBSs for.

This survey makes for interesting reading

Bikebiz Indy Retailer Survey Results:
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/independent-retail-survey-the-results-part-one/012286

Part2
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/independent-retail-survey-the-results-part-two/012288

3. LBS will have to evolve from being suppliers to service centres to fit, service bikes and parts bought elsewhere for those than either do not have the time and/or skill to do their own spannering

That rather depends on a service centre being a viable proposition. I remember Johns Bikes in Bath running a separate premises for repairs, but can recall no others. Could be viable as a mobile operation maybe? I remember fondly the time that Salisbury had 6 record shops. Now it has HMV, which sells music as an afterthought and a Classical and Jazz specialist bucking the trend. It would be a shame to be reduced from 5 cycling outlets down to Halfords in the same timeframe, which was about 4 years IIRC.

I remember fondly the time that Salisbury had 6 record shops

And that awesome Classical selection in the place upstairs by the bus station….! Sadly missed.

Nope, that’s the specialist I mentioned above, still there 🙂

Is it? Fleck me sideways, I thought it had closed down! Wooo! Great news! (shows how often I head down that way these days!)

On a Sarum note – Good to see Goomama in their second year! Good luck, chaps!

Isn’t on-one owned by hotlines that’s owned by crc? Irony…

Seems Specialized are getting in on the argument. Sorry if this link has already been posted.

Specialized warn retailers about Amazon App

For what it’s worth I come down on the retailers side. A good LBS offers a value added service and this in tern justifies a little extra expense. I think this argument is as much about honesty and standards in a new age of shopping. We all like to browse the LBS but we also like to get best price. If you know what you want then go buy it wherever, but i draw the line at using the resources of a store to then purchase on line. Someone had it right earlier, if you feel justified in this sort of activity at least tell the staff up front. Give them the option to throw you out for the penny pinching gutter wrench you are!

I used to work in retail so a little opinionated on this one.

bobbyatwork – Member
Isn’t on-one owned by hotlines that’s owned by crc? Irony…

No. That would be Ragley.

I don’t think it’s acceptable to do even if you tell the staff. They will be aware that if they say no it is unlikely that they will see any more of your money. Telling them that you’re taking the piss doesn’t make it right.
Actually, I think it might make it worse.

Telling them that you’re taking the piss doesn’t make it right.
Actually, I think it might make it worse.

Agreed.

Buy it as cheap as possible, learn how to fix it all your self, sorted.

i dont do d.i.y either.
thats what the yellow pages is for 🙂

There is another side to the traditional distributor and dealer network LBS vs online brands .

Back in the day in the mid 90s before on-one was born , we were a distributor of many brands – Rocky Mountain , Powerbar , Hed , Lemond , Odyssey etc etc – and being a smallish distributor in the mid 90s when the cycle market was undergoing a distinct consolidation . Small dealers either going out of business or being swallowed up by bigger ones getting bigger, and bigger ones are not interested in niche products or small suppliers , the business back then was about consolidation and the arrival of the corporates .

Couple this with the inward invasion of big powerful brands like trek , specialised , giant – offering huge long credit lines and massive dealer support , what happened to smaller distributors like us , the LBS literally told us to f*** o** , so despite being a long established distributor albeit a small one we were left in no mans land with no dealers wishing to commit to our stock .

So forgive us for moving with the times , we have to sell our stuff and pay our staff , and when one door gets closed you have to open another, the door that opened was the online market and it revolutionised the way we all do business .

Many , in fact , most of the LBS from the early 90s that we did business with are long gone , and the wheel has turned again.

See, the thing you’ve missed (and it’s a big one), is that whether I spend my money in a LBS or online, it’s still going into the economy.

Well basically I stopped here, you’re just so wrong. I appreciate you a lot, but I think that what you’ve done makes you no better than stoner or Z11 or CFH. You don’t just walk in a shop try stuff and buy it somewhere else because it’s cheaper. How would you feel if someone asked you about what kind of design you could do for a website, you did a sketch and with this sketch they’ll go and get it done somewhere cheaper. You won’t be a happy bunny will you. And you’ll be right. People in the bike shop are not only part of the economy, but more important they are part of the community. You know the guy next door, the butcher down the road, the baker, the small hi-fi shop. All are more likely to but back in your community what you gave them. And most important they are more concern about you enjoying your bike than CRC or some bloke on a forum. I suspect, most of your local bike shops pay taxes, to both government and city council, and the more you spend in the shop, the more taxes they pay. These local taxes go toward local child care, road maintenance, bin men, local police forces and probably the local branch of the FC. So basically your local community of shops subdivides your riding. We can’t really have it both ways. It’s either you think it’s YOUR money and you must enjoy it the WAY you want, get the best value for it. And that makes you a capitalist, whether you like it or not and all your nice talks about NHS, pension and all is just smoke and mirror. Or you accept to get less value for your money but somehow help your community and that is called socialism and yes a pair of shoes and a rear mech might not be as cheap as you get them on-line. But you do get a lot in terms of services that you don’t get on-line.

Juan, why the comparison?

I’m not a socialist, should I avoid my LBS?