How long to be a credible Cat 4 or am I just crap (road content)

It’s odd right enough Molgrips. Remember before I took the advice you post and I’m 15lb lighter for it. The funny thing is even over the last two days of “undereating” (2100 cals) with 1000 cals lost at Beastway on Wednesday and 500 on the turbo yesterday for example I still have this wobbly bit of tummy which is surely a pound or so of lard.

But this morning a felt very physically exhausted – Beastway was hard this weak IMO – and have eaten some extras this morning – and I’ve still 1008 cals to go. I feel better now and tonight is beer night so that will address some of the balance shown here in my weekly chart:

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Note chart shows net calories after exercises it isn’t that I haven’t eaten much all week…

TiRed, 25s seems like a plan, I was going to run 21mm tubs but they are crap (tufo) so I’ll probably put my clinchers on.

MTBTomo, it’s a Basque series of nocturnes, there’ve been some other rounds. I was living in London when they did the first nocturne there, always wanted to have a stab at it.

I suspect I’m too old and fragile to be in the mix but want to give it a good go anyway.

TiRed, 25s seems like a plan, I was going to run 21mm tubs but they are crap (tufo) so I’ll probably put my clinchers on.

+1.

I’ve been running wider tyres on my proper road bike for years, was originally using Specialized Roubaix Pro which they reckoned had a 23mm tread for speed with a 25mm casing for comfort.
Got a pair of 26mm S-Works Turbo Pro tyres on there at the moment which are amazing although they look like they’ll wear out pretty quickly. Wider tyres are ace, so much more comfortable and confidence inspiring than silly narrow ones.

And now everyone is going with wider tyres. I’m such a trendsetter! 😉

Sorry to backtrack a bit but the guys above doing crits on SS, what was the circuit like?

I’ll only ever use the SS for a bit of fun really. Used it at Hillingdon and at Salt Ayre. 48:17 gets a bit twiddly and above about 30mph you can’t really put the power down but the circuits are pretty flowing and it’s easy enough to just sit in the bunch and use tactics and positioning to hold yourself in the top third. It’s amazing how effortless it can be once you get used to it.
I reckon to be properly competitive on it in 2/3/4 races I’d need a 48:15. Or I could just use my normal geared road bike…

I suspect I’m too old and fragile to be in the mix

Don’t be silly. You’re on STW, so middle aged. Like me 😉

Looking at the course, corners will decide the race. You want confidence in those corners. And 25c will give you that confidence. I’m running Schwalbe Ones and they have a very rounded profile and I have cornered like never before, fixed and free. The Nocturn has only 90 degree bends, and with the right line, I cornered almost flat out. Indeed the first lap averaged 26 mph – so E123 speeds. The tighter hairpins may see you ease up, so be sure you can accelerate away in 48*15 from about 18 mph. If you can’t (and practice out on the road), gear down to 48*16. I think 48*17 will be too spinny for fixed (it’s more efficient and you won’t be coasting along in the bunch like you can on free). Most of the riders at the Nocturn were on 48*15. One or two on 48*14 suffered when it came time to accelerate.

Confident cornering will trump supreme fitness in your race.

Michi 25’s here and “KOM” on one of the cyclopark corners.

FYI.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/my-weekend-of-racing-roadtt-content?replies=16#post-6126571

Corporate Games race data by molgrips[/url], on Flickr

No longer a 4th cat!

Did a 4th cat only crit and came in second. Which gives me 13 points for the season.

Compares to the 3\4 and 2\3\4 races it was a doddle. Could move around in the bunch happily, had a lap out front on my own (they chase everything!). Could read the race and predict things so practice paid off. Figured the sprint was for the last corner not the line so went for it on the back straight – sure enough the order we went in was the order we came out and was carried to the finish. Hard to get past people when leaning over at 30mph and the sprint was short.

Next race is the Thornton trophy 2\3\4 exercise in survival for me. Tough hilly 70miles.

Jonba,

your username suggests you did Prissick yesterday 🙂

I came in 5th, first points of the season, you called the sprint right, nice one! those last two corners were sketchy, i thought there was going to be a coming together. I tried to get off the front as well, but the winner pulled my back in with no problem. good race though.

No longer a 4th cat!

Congratulations. If your first E123 race is anything like mine, you will do well to hang on! Imnprovement comes with racing at a higher level. And it is nice to beat 1st cats now and then.

Nice to catch up on this thread, lots of achievements! And good to see Molgrips trying racing finally, it took you long enough!! :-)I did 4 races over 3 days in June, results weren’t what i was after for one reason or another, puncture with service 5mins back, my back packed in and a really bad moment during my 4th race when i appeared to forget how to ride a bike on the worst part of the course to have a bad moment on. But i got into two breaks with riders from Wiggle Honda, pretty cool racing in the same group as Laura Trott and Jo Rowsell. My power numbers are all up too which i’m pleased with…but i’m a bit fed up racing with injury and it affecting my results so most of my racing adventures knocked on the head for this season i think, cat 1 isn’t happening again this season.

I also raced one of the Tour Series rounds, massive mistake ditching a bottle, and running my normal psi in my tyres on a course that was about 50% cobbles. I got on TV too, lets just ignore the fact i was refered to as a “back marker” of the race 😀 It was fun in a think i’m dying kind of a way…city centre crits are my worst nightmare (much like racing tameside, awful circuit!)

And good to see Molgrips trying racing finally, it took you long enough!

Not for lack of desire, don’t worry 🙂

Glad to hear your racing is coming on too DG.

cat 1 isn’t happening again this season.

Well I’m dreaming of how I shall acquire the remaining 38 points needed to make it to 2nd cat. E123 races will not be the way, but they are so much fun.

Well done Moly. It is VERY addictive. Group riding will never be the same again, I’m afraid.

Bah.

Reading this thread makes me jealous, as Scotland only has a handful of Cat 4 only crits since BC decided to make all the open road races 3/4 mixed. I’m not even looking for points, I just want some meaningful racing experience. Fat chance of that with all of the Cat 3’s taking no prisoners.

MOAN MOAN MOAN. 🙁

Just keep at it. You will get fitter, you will get faster, but most importantly, your tactics will improve. Then eventually when you make it to third cat, you’ll be even more competitive! There is a small gap between first and third cat in the races I do, sometimes I beat some first cats, sometimes they make the selection and I just can’t (see last week). Know the strong riders and aim to stay on their wheels and mark their attacks.

Just keep at it. You will get fitter, you will get faster, but most importantly, your tactics will improve.

Mine will, I reckon. I think in my particular race I could’ve been in the mix if I’d a) have got into the bunch from the start and b) I’d have known what lap it was at the end.

Found a series of mid-week races at Llandow which is just down the road from me.. brill 🙂

since BC decided to make all the open road races 3/4 mixed. I’m not even looking for points, I just want some meaningful racing experience. Fat chance of that with all of the Cat 3’s taking no prisoners.

That’s the way it’s always been surely?
I’ve only ever really entered 3/4 road races and 3/4 crits. I did 1 4th cat race and thought this is crap. I’d rather get experience than points

trickydisco – Member
since BC decided to make all the open road races 3/4 mixed. I’m not even looking for points, I just want some meaningful racing experience. Fat chance of that with all of the Cat 3’s taking no prisoners.
That’s the way it’s always been surely?
I’ve only ever really entered 3/4 road races and 3/4 crits. I did 1 4th cat race and thought this is crap. I’d rather get experience than points

I was reluctant to go to a 4th only crit. But being a third opens up a new series of races. 3/4 road races are more fun, 2/3/4 are hard but manageable. 3/4 will always be full of ringers. Round here it is CX riders who don’t have many road points but are amongst the best riders in the country. Raced against one GB rider in a 2/3/4 and a sponsored top ten UK rider in a 3/4. Just work out who they are an try to get in their break 🙂

2/3/4 are hard but manageable. 3/4 will always be full of ringers. Round here it is CX riders who don’t have many road points but are amongst the best riders in the country. Raced against one GB rider in a 2/3/4 and a sponsored top ten UK rider in a 3/4. Just work out who they are an try to get in their break

Same in Brizzle. I was in a 2/3/4 with Nick noble who was on the reserve team for the Seoul olympics in 88. Actually he was in the national road race champs yesterday (and he’s 47!)

Well I just got my first bit of prize money through the post, £25 for 8th place! Wasn’t expecting it at all as I had to get home straight after the race. Certainly makes a change from XC/DH!

OMFG

Just found the results page online for my RR – I was 7th, apparently! I have no idea how that happened.

Just done a bit of Google stalking, the winner is Elite ranked 100 nationally…

I’m sure everyone was thrilled you contested the sprint despite being a lap down…

One of our more experienced and successful racers said that “if you are serious about racing, then you won’t have much time for any other cycling”. I didn’t take him seriously, but am now coming round to the idea. I don’t really do the formal training stuff – but I do have to get to work. I have also stepped up to at least one race a week, possibly two. The above week was really too much, and I was tired by the Thursday race and too tired by the Nocturn – must be age

So true, hence why I’m having a year out to do other things. Well that and being partly forced to with a torn tendon in my upper arm from a dumb off road tumble.

It is however great fun, there is no feeling like it. Chaingangs don’t even come close. The funny thing is, I’m always dropped by our fast group but can now hang onto E123s in a race.

Not uncommon. I get that, you’re racing now, race head is for race days for others the Sunday bun run is race day. Sounds childish, but you’ve matured and don’t have to prove anything. When a group of club mates joined me in their first race they must have thought they’d cream me being faster than me Sundays, but I lapped them….oh yes.

Just had a skim over the diet/weight points. I had a corking 2013, a win a few 3rds and most of my 29 races were top ten. I came 6th overall in my CX league (I’m LVRCC so it’s age related, I’m not beating 23 year olds) I lost a fair bit of weight. I dieted to lose more, but went backwards performance wise. Seems a little weight for shortish races helps with me.

Great read, so who’s going to be the first 2nd cat from newcomer last year?

The reason I asked initially about diet was that with all the biking, I can eat whatever I want (read have my fair share of the biscuits at work, the kids chocolate at home plus anything else that comes along as well as 3 good meals a day) and my weight doesn’t change. Not bothered about dieting or losing weight, more eating better stuff than pure sugar.

I was getting dropped a lot earlier in the season (and still do depending on the course) so someone at work suggested finding out what else are the 3rd and 2nd cat riders doing to improve performance? Aside from a lot of riding.

2nd cat is only 40 points, right? 🙄

I was getting dropped a lot earlier in the season (and still do depending on the course) so someone at work suggested finding out what else are the 3rd and 2nd cat riders doing to improve performance? Aside from a lot of riding.

Riding hard.

I can go out and ride 100 miles, easy. That is not a race. My race training is going out and riding 50 miles solo at 20-21 average with efforts on the hills and sprints for landmarks. Or going out with 3 or 4 team mates and playing last man standing over 50 miles.

This actually works pretty well as I can get a couple of these in mid week then have a fun ride on Sat/Sun or a race.

I know a few riders who’ve made it to 2nd cat in one season. Not enough races left around here. You not only need the ability but also the motivation to travel a lot to get all the races in. You could go away and win some races but more likely you’ll be picking up a handful of points here and there so need the volume.

I’ve got my first “proper” (town centre) crit tomorrow.
The Otley GP.

Going to get such a kicking…

Jonba – what you describe suits me – I just don’t have the time to go putting 100miles in on a regular basis!

Not quite at riding 20-21 mph solo average though yet for 50miles! Or is that a fairly flat 50miles?

Going to get such a kicking…

Good God hope no one Youtubes that, no one want’s to see that 🙂

How’d you get on Crazy-Legs?

Me, well, I got dropped at Litherland last night. My back wheel skipped out on an early lap going round the hair pin as though I’d gone over some gravel or a grate. I don’t know what happened really. That dropped me to the back of the bunch and shorty after than it was good night vienna and properly dropped (but not lapped)

How’d you get on Crazy-Legs?

Well the race was a bit farcical to be honest.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Otley, great atmosphere. But the 2/3/4 race is a sideshow to the main event so it all felt a bit rushed. Only 12 laps (although its a long circuit at 2.2km).

So 3 laps in, pace was fast but manageable and we came into the start/finish straight and there was a fire engine doing an Orica Green Edge and had got stuck under the gantry.

Race stopped. Restarted then stopped again on the hill out of town while they cleared the course of fire engines. Restarted 10 mins later under neutral conditions, round to the start then stopped again for a formal restart.

Race cut to 6 laps to go, it went mental right from the gun and I just never really got going again. 🙁

To be fair I’m way off race fitness, I might have been able to blag it had it kept going but with the restarts and reorganisation, I had no chance.

Relatively flat,

My fast and flat ride is normally based around this,

http://www.strava.com/activities/144001184

Coming up to hill climb season so I hit the hills this week.

http://www.strava.com/activities/161352298

Two up session, mostly working together.

http://www.strava.com/activities/152374152

But being a third opens up a new series of races. 3/4 road races are more fun, 2/3/4 are hard but manageable

Bite the bullet and enter an E123. I think it’s the only way to really improve both tactics and fitness. I rode the E123 Tour de Fowlmead yesterday as a lone rider and among some big powerful teams. A lesson in tactics, but I hung in, worked on the front a bit, bridged once and had nothing left for the last attack. Finished 20/40 in the bunch sprint, five places off the points but ahead of plenty of 2nd cats. Very happy – except my legs, they hurt so much they woke me up at 5AM!.

You have to push yourself outside the comfort zone to improve.

You have to push yourself outside the comfort zone to improve.

Unless your dead on a Turbo after 50 mins. I’m done – literally. I think I need a rest as I can’t even stand the thought of riding a bike hard ATM.

On the plus side I move up 5 places on the mtb series last week, I’m wondering if this week will be any good. :-/

Well I had five days off the bike, which may have helped. As you know, I don’t turbo (it serves as a bike rack), I prefer other people to dish out the hurt!

I am spending the next week off the bike. Well apart from mtb racing on Wednesday. And a pottos to watch the peloton go by tomorrow.

Jonba – when you mentioned riding 50miles hard, I set out on Friday evening to ride over to watch the Tour – and tried to ride the ~60miles as hard as I could ride at a sustainable pace.

I’ve just very simplistically compared your hilly ride with what I did – average speed, height gain per kilometre distance etc – and the figures were very similar. So the ‘compare yourself to another STW user who you don’t know’ metric, shows I’m not doing too bad 😉

TiRed – Do you think racing once a week is enough to bring about an improvement? I generally do chain gang on Monday which is steady all bar the last lap, and a crit either Tuesday or Weds. The rest of the week is a mix of Turbo/Commuting/longer ride at weekend. Would racing an E123 crit once a week bring any improvement? Seems I can’t yet even consistently hang on to the 3/4s at Litherland. I’ve yet to try 2/3/4’s at Tameside.

@Crazy – that all sound somewhat disappointing. Should still expect a decent race ; 2/3/4 should still be fast and entertaining to watch

Do you think racing once a week is enough to bring about an improvement?

Yes provided you are being stretched. If you can ride E123 then you should. 3/4 is for points grabbers staving off the inevitable 😉 . I’ve raced about twice every three weeks for the past year (including all winter). Am racing once or twice a week at the moment. I alternate E123 and Masters E1234 circuits then see what else I can enter. I have about six Surrey League races lined up later in the season.

Looking at my recent power charts; I need some very hard short intervals 🙁 so proper training may be required.

My weekly riding at the moment:
Commute daily 20 miles/day
Club ride (gentle) or E123 race (very hard) Tues
Race Weds (with new Time Trial interest to alternate)
Club ride Sat
MTB Sunday

Was thinking of the Dunwich Dynamo this Saturday as I need some longer rides before Ride London.

I think a consistent race per week will be enough to show improvement. It helps to write a few notes afterwards; Attacked, worked too hard in the first half, held position in sprint… You’ll soon notch up those milestones. It’s not all about FTP – although mine has climbed about 15% 😉

Urgh, 3rd road race – 14th out of about 55, 3rd – 4th Cat. No points.

Was a bit of a hilly one with a head/cross wind on the flatter portions. Didn’t try anything all race as I convinced myself it would def stay together, a few brave souls had a good go off the front with the longest staying out around 3/4 of a lap! It was cool watching people struggle in the wind though! I thought I’d struggle moar in the wind on the flat than I felt like I was on the climbs, weird!

Heard an almighty clatter up turning left onto the back straight on lap 2, looked back and a young boy seemed to be trying to come to a halt by using his face, sounded proper messy!!

Last lap came, penultimate corner leads into a quick DH section followed by a 90 deg corner that takes you to the final hill (that sure as hell feels steeper than 5%!) I gunned it away from the second last corner to get into the top 5 for the final one, worked a treat! Unfortunately someone came across my front in the final corner, (was very lucky not to go down as he brushed my front wheel!) I had to alter my line to hold it up losing some momentum and upsetting someone behind me, gunned it again but legs died before the line! Ended up 14th, can’t complain! Mate said it was a good move, I just didn’t have the legs to pull it off ( 😛 ) and got unlucky after losing momentum!

Got beaten by a couple of guys I know this time though! One is 50!! Ex elite though so he’s bloody strong, the other is a TT machine!

Looking back over my power data it was weird to see that my last two races have pretty much the exact same average and normalized power despite the difference in speed and elevation profile. My legs def felt better on my 2nd one compared to Sunday, maybe a bit to much Tweed Valley fatigue/crashing!! I also felt like I should have ridden through more of last week. Left it 3 days (busy at work) after my Sunday ride which I think made ’em stay heavy.

Looking at my first race was a beast really, despite feeling ill and eventually getting dropped I averaged 30% more power although normalized power was the same.

Still learning, next race on Sunday! Hope it’s dry ‘cos it’ll be fast!

enjoying this thread.. keep it up lads, don’t think just because we don’t comment that we’re not reading it.

Did my first road race on Sunday (late starter due to training for ironman this year). 3/4s seemed to be dominated by a small group of 3s as it was a tough circuit (purbecks) with a small ring climb every lap (and 8laps).

Was doing ok, able to move up and drop back in the bunch at will, making up places on the climb every lap, and recovering well on the decent, but about half way round my legs popped (might be the half ironman 7days before). Managed to finish without being lapped, and by the end it looked as tough others found the course/pace much harder than I did.

In summary it helps to turn up a little bit fresh for a 2 hour race, or find an easier first race!

Thanks for all the advice so far, keep it coming!