help with an alchoholic mate…

nice happy subject for a monday eh?

anyway a good mate of mine has been getting worse of late so i am after any advice or similar experiences?

he is 30 and suffered with cancer about 10 years ago, was given the all clear but never really got over it.

he lacks any motivation, he functions, barely, by having a ridiculously understanding boss (days off at an hours notice etc) and family (mum and sister) who bail him out of most of the scrapes he gets himself into.

there used to be a big close knit group of us who had been mates from school, however this has dispersed, and we get together now and then, but not as much as previously. people are starting to treat him as a bit of a liability, and whereas people used to roll their eyes and chuckle at "that messy XXX again" I notice that he is being left out of stuff more and more.

He doesnt have a girlfriend and his confidence is rockbottom, but as he pushes people away with his behaviour (not angry and never violent, just over drunk and a bit dribbly) I cant see this improving unless he sorts him self out.

He doesnt open up easily at all, and when he does he'll promise to sort himself out but he'll be back on it the next weekend.

He's not a bottle of whiskey a day man, but he'll start drinking (lager usually) on a friday night, continue all weekend, and as his liver is not great he'll be in a mess till wednesday, then repeat….

Speaking to him yesterday he is fairly comitted to carrying on as he is until he dies as he considers he hasnt had much of a life since the cancer.

Clearly he needs some sort of help, but how do you motivate someone to get counselling that really doesnt want it?

He is on some form of anti depressants i think, but doesnt see anyone for regular counselling, he visits the hospital every couple of months or so, but i think they just make sure he is still clear.

Sorry for the miserable post but I need to try everything to buck him up, and i am at a loss.

It's been my experience that unless the person with the drink problem wants to sort themselves out then there is nothing that can be done about it.

If they do want to get help then residential schemes can help, but they're not cheap (£2000-£2500 per week).

Al anon (IIRC) is a good source of support for people in your position.

Unfortunately it seems that there is very little you can do in this sort of situation until they have hit rock bottom and realise for themselves they need help – and sometimes that pint never is reached before they die.

Its very distressing for you but often any support you give just allows them to continue longer before they hit that rock bottom point. Tough love required perhaps.

all you can do is remain their friend and do so nin a non judgemental way – and then when they are ready to change and to accept your help then be there for them.

Does he have any hobbies at all? If not, how about trying to get him in to one! Bikes are good….you can get well away from the bottle, have plenty of time and space to think and work through things in your head.

Best of luck!

And beer tastes better after a ride too.

Not a whole lot you can do in my experience,other than to refer him to the fantastic people at Alcoholics Anonymus.Unless you are an addict,you will not be able to relate to his ilness.He will need all his friends though, as recovery is a lifelong process,wish you and him all the best mate.

…..sometimes that "pint" is never reached…

Nice one TJ!

binge drinking every weekend? is that actually enough to be an alchoholic? 😳

Don't do what my brother did for his flatmate – buy him a copy of Allen Carr's Easy Way to Stop Drinking. Went down like a lead balloon!

Like what most people have said, until you can get him to honestly admit to having a problem or something acts as a sharp wake up call then you just have to support him.

Lots of definitions of alcoholism – most similar to this:

"Alcoholism is a primary illness or disorder characterised by some loss of control over drinking, with habituation or addiction to the drug alcohol, causing interference in any major life function, e.g. health, family, job, spiritual, friends,legal."

If regular heavy drinking is affecting his life, work, health etc. then I think it'd be reasonable to term them an alcoholic.

My father is an Alcoholic and I'v tried desperately to help him over the past 15 years.

I've tried getting him to go to meetings, funding hobbies and spending as much time with him as I possibly can.

I've tried shouting, shaming, incentives…everything.

As others have said, they need the will to quit and the willpower to stick with it. My dad came back from AA meetings with the impression that there were others worsethan him and that he had a ways to go yet… 😕

I've pretty much given up. HE needs to find the will.

I barely drink as a result. 😐

by having a ridiculously understanding boss (days off at an hours notice etc) and family (mum and sister) who bail him out of most of the scrapes he gets himself into

Its often said that people need to hit the bottom before they pick themselves up, if people catch you then ultimately you don't take responsibility as you can alway fall again knowing you'll be caught.

Perhaps there needs to be some co-ordinated thought between you and the others that look out for him that you let him fall whilst keeping an eye on him as best you can. Perhaps in the same way as there is councelling for alcoholics there might be similar support for the friends and family of alcoholics that can give you a bit of guidance.

EDIT blimey people wrote all that while if was typing slowly with cold fingers. So heres another slant….. Alcoholics seek the company of other alcoholics, i know of pubs where all the clientelle are soaks, some will travel a long way to be there. People seek these environments out because nobody judges you. When your pall is on his weekend benders is he on his own? With you and other friends and just drinking a lot more than them? With people who drink in the same way has him?

If its the latter then if he manages to make steps to dry himself out then try too create a social scene that moves him away from his drinking environment. If he's drying out but still in the company of drinkers it embarrases the drinkers as it forces them to think about what they are doing, and unwittingly or otherwise they'll try and tempt him back on the drink. (in the same way that smokers habitually, half jokingly, offer fags to people who have quite)

GW yes if you're unlucky.
Ian

PS +1 for TJ

challenge him to a sobriety race, both quit drinking together and spend the time with him that he'd normally be drinking, support and encourage him, do stuff, go places, try and show him the side of life he can't see through a glass.

Lots of rightwing christian zealots are recovering alcoholics, maybe you should buy him George W Bush's autobiography (or Steven Baldwin's)

Had a mate who eventually died from alcoholism. He tried Al Anon but because he was gay and had a lot of negativity regarding religion he didn't go. He couldn't surrender to 'a higher power' (such as a 'god') as he thought that religion was a load of cobblers, so didn't see the point.

Very sad, he was a brilliant chef.

Lots of sense has been written above. (On STW ?)

As others have said he's got to want to change.

If you try to force it he could just end up resenting you.

Good luck being supportive.

Sounds terrible mate, has he thought about packing in the rat race life to go traveling. Could work wonders meting new people, seeing new things. Could reawaken who he was, as he sure as hell can't let cancer define who he is.

OP- Stay with him and offer him your unconditional support. Dont lecture him.

All the best

OP- Stay with him and offer him your unconditional support. Dont lecture him

Don't underestimate how difficult that can be. There may will come a point where the situation starts to effect your own life and you'll have to call it quits – it did with me.

My decision to remove myself from their life had a positive effect however – they realised they needed help and decided they wanted to change and got help, and I'm supporting them through that.

Can't offer much advice but see so man people with this and have our regulars, of course the inevitable happens we get them that final time.

All I can say is I wish you the best of luck in sorting this it's an awful illness.

epicsteve you are right as well- sometimes a destruction personality is just that. Even if the person decides to change- it can be too late. Support where you can. No one can stop someone- unless you strap him down and force feed him in a locked room.

seen someone die from alcoholism at 35 not pretty and they drag you down. married, kids and a teacher. Unfortunately your mate is an adult and can make his own choices…it is your choice as to whether youstay and witness it.
Who knows what will be right…. perhaps you stop calling and this is the impetus to sort his life out perhaps not either way you are not responsible for his lifestyle choices. I opted for distanced contact as he was just an unbearable drunk and I could not listen to his escuses or promises any more or see his family suffer it was disgraceful behaviour on his part. Still see his family sad as can be.
Best of luck.

There's little you yourself can do. Have a read of blogs and pages at wqd.netwarriors.org/ for accounts of how folk quit drinking. Although it's US focused, there's much useful information if you can take the AA/higher power stuff with a pinch of salt. Your friend may just find it useful to post on there where he is not accountable to anyone, and can relay problems anonymously and without reprise.

What Junkyard said. I have a family member who, despite an enormous amount of financial and emotional support, still continues to put her booze and fags ahead of her own kids. It's been going on for years and she has come close to breaking her families hearts. As said above, she is an adult who is making her own choices. Support has been given and she chooses to ignore it because continuing to get boozed up is the easy option.

On the flip side I have a mate who realised he was an alchoholic before any once else did. He grabbed himself by the balls, so to speak, confessed his problem to his missus and hightailed it down to Al Anon. He is doing great but then again he had to make the harder choice.

I have witnessed more and more of similar behaviour, if not quite as extreme as your scenario, around friends and neighbours.
I gave up all alcohol in 2009 up after reasoning that alcohol was in fact no good in my life either, although I'd not a problem per se, just saw so much negative in alcohol and nothing good.
I have a guy renting a room from me who'd be horrified to learn that he's an alcoholic, he has nothing to do between 6pm and bed time so for the last 5+ years he's been in the pub, and has no imagination to do anything other than go down the pub, a previous tenant who'd argue he wasn't, but all his lies betray him.

The simple, hurtful truth is, unless he has an epiphany he'll continue down this destructive path until something gives out; possibly his job and thereafter his home, his liver or kidneys and so down the spiral goes.

All you can do is provide moral support for him, which can be very time consuming and draining on you and your family, and as he deteriorates, he'll get worse, his brain will be less capable and his body will be forgotten in preference to the consumption of booze.

Get him some professional counseling between you all? Take him in under your own roof? I'm sure there are many options but you'll need his assistance. Make his do things away from his stuck-in-the-rut routine that sees him not doing the same old, same old, if you make sure his Friday to Monday morning hours are different he might see the flip side and begin to see some options for himself. Many men are uncomfortable about looking after kids if they've been on the pop. Have him do some driving duties on a Friday night and a Saturday morning? Give him things to do and responsibilities without making it obvious? Being single and wallowing in self pity is something you might be able to address successfully in the first instance.

Or get him a job in Saudi Arabia!

Yesterday morning in Brighton- I was loading up at about 09.30am and two blokes/one woman came out of the hotel- one holding a bottle of red (half drunk) and another drinking from a can of beer. All three looked 'attractive'/normal and normally dressed. I remember thinking 'ah hopefully they will be off duty A&E staff enjoying their 'night out' (I hope!)

'ah hopefully they will be off duty A&E staff enjoying their 'night out' (I hope!)

Nope, they were coach drivers on their way to the carpark 🙂

Only half joking actually

I have sympathy with your situation.

You can only do so much without becoming dependant upon. its horrible to have to distance your self and the feelings of helping and getting nowhere is soul destroying.

Saying that I would offer the following advice.
Speak to a professional. NHS Direct or Alcoholics Anonymous – 0845 769 7555 will be a good place to start with real advice from carers.
See what they say and take them seriously.
If they suggest an intervention have no preconceived ideas as to the result as it can go all directions in the same sentence.

I would suspect the root cause is depression which is best approached by the doctors as they have lots of resources available.

If you want to chat email in profile.

Ross

been sat reading all your responses and thank you.

i think i am struggling with my mates just turning a blind eye, i have always been a bit protective of him, and it guts me to see him deteriorate, and just become less and less the man he used to be.

the "i died 10 years ago" bit yesterday wigged me out more than usual also…

I think a rock bottom moment couldnt come soon enough tbh, his liver function is already damaged from the chemo and 10 years of drinking and just general unhealthy living, so something need to happen pretty soon.

i'll try and drag him to some counselling, then maybe try the sobriety race mrnutt!

can't add much to what has been said above, just that you (and your friends) need to decide what you want to do too.

If you want to support him you all need to do that and in turn that means you need to maybe modify your own behaviours. You can't expect your mates to have a get together every now and then and base that around drinking / pubs if you're expecting him to stay off them. And you need to be prepared that it could be a long haul.

Or – and not suggesting this is the right or wrong thing to do – you might consider that you and your mates have your own lives to lead and that if he won't help himself, there is ultimately little you can do. Offer him the support, find out the courses / conselling that he might need and then walk away. He's a grown up, he is functional between drinking bouts and he has to make his own choices. If he's prepared to invest time in drying out he can, if he wants to come back into the fold he can, and equally if he wants to kill himself with it he will.

Make your decision and do what you need to do. It's your one life as well, just don't have regrets.

Dont give up on him but dont go giving him advice- just be there in the background for him. That way, if he does die young you've at least given him some company in his last years.

My bestmate almost went this way- jesus he could drink. Scarily so. We used to drink a litre of Vodka between us out of two plastic cups on the tube on the way out. Then he fell in love with a great girl 😀

"take the AA/higher power stuff with a pinch of salt. "

That approach is a problem IMO. AA works, more or less, in conjunction with than conselling, meds, work and caring friends. I'm quite sure existential nihilism does not help.

When my sister really lost it, it nearly destroyed her family. Apart from talk, I refused to give more direct support and her kids and husband resent that, even now. Perhaps I was selfishly looking after me and my GF? Yes, but also it was the tough love thing – it's tough for those giving it too. It's a combi of things that helped her: the right depression meds, therapist to work through life issues, AA, a job, a divorce.

But AA stands out as the main reason she is in recovery. They changed her mind. She has not become some bible bashing zealot, but she has learned humility and the value of her life sober.

Good luck.

The AA might not be a good fit for everyone but it seems to work for a lot. Wrapping recovery round some kind of belief seems to help – in some other approaches it can be focused around things like meditation. What also appears to be very important is continuing support after the intervention, and having access to mutual support from people that are dealing with the same issues.

My next door neighbour went to a clinic about 3 years ago in Luton for about 12 weeks and it really worked for him. He had drugs and booze issues – as a Black cab driver which I gather is not that uncommon.

A neighbour three doors up lost his family home in November due in part to his drinking and still has yet to put 2 and 2 together.

He's still boozing and smoking, though the smoking I think is left alone as it's the one crutch many reformed drugs and alcoholics never address.

Crikey, it makes my street look like the rougher part of Hackney and not a £400k-average-house road in a quiet suburb of Watford! (Bushey, don't you know!)

Bottom line is with some outside professional help, things can really be turned around, but he will want to make the changes before it really has any effect. Expect him then to be an active member of that rehab assisting community thereafter!

i had a very similar experience with a close family member.he had been into it all .all flavors of drugs for years.
he tried eveything.stopping starting.stopping starting,AA time after time.the amount of times he ratled while detoxing in unbelivable.this went on for 8 years.
he had full family suport the works.all the usual A+e,alcoholic fits, pnumonia.in the end HE booked himself into a detox/rehab center for a month.this was for alcoholics and real hardend junkies of which most where criminals. there as part of bail conditions.that was over 2 years ago.now he,s a completly different lad.
and quese what..
he,s a shit hot xc/dh dude now who loves life to bits.
i go riding with him often.
when i talk to him now it,s like he,s been reborn into one of the best lads you could ever meet.
so it,s a case of don,t give up on him because there,s someone else inside there dying to get out but doesn,t know how.
a nice positive story anyway.

There one other thing to consider, & it's purely selfish and has been alluded to here.
The guilt of not doing something, or withdrawing your friendship & support in the eventuality of his decline & premature death.
This might well prove more difficult for you or your friends in the aftermath of anything untoward that might well happen and is worthy of your consideration.
I think it's a truism in scenarios such as this, that once people have gone, those who remain often go through a period of soul searching to evaluate & even chastise themselves as to why they did what they did and oft' conclude they should have "been there for him / her" but maybe were remiss in your perceived Humanity towards him in his hour of need, thus carrying some emotion cross that, rightly or wrongly, might be more of an issue for you in the future.

I'd personally seek some professional guidance and counseling on this one as clearly it's not just a simple issue of ditching the booze as there are other underlying factors to combat with your friend that are long established and deep-rooted.

Good luck!

I'm quite sure existential nihilism does not help.

Agreed – and thankfully there's the warm embrace of friends, family and the world as-it-is (with mountains and hills) between conceptions of a power "beyond" and anomie, absolute relativism and solipsism.

This is my third dry day after one hell of a bender of a weekend. I still have a hangover 🙁

Hora.
Since you've popped up on this thread & told us about your own drinking, do you recognise that there maybe a bit of a problem with your own alcohol consumption?