Have we not done this? Cyclist v Police

he hardly threatened the guys life did he?

Oh that’s alright then…

So it’s not bad driving, unless he hits him.
Remember, this is someone who is supposed to enforce the law…..

Yep exactly. WTF? The bloke is the police. He should be setting an example with good driving. He definitely shouldn’t be trying to teach cyclists a lesson by swiping at them with his car.

cyclist is using more lane than is necessary

Cyclist in ‘behaving like vehicle in accordance with approved training’ shock. I believe this is called ‘taking the lane’ and exactly what he should have done to turn right.

So it’s not bad driving, unless he hits him.

That’s the Police view generally when it comes to other vehicles. It’s a good one that Catch 22

http://www.advanced-driving.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4023&start=75

That forum’s rubbish!
They’re all far too reasonable and consdiered on there.

Police driver needs his arse kicked.

franksinatra – Member
I don’t think the police did anything wrong with that driving,

from ^^ this to:

The driving wasn’t great but he hardly threatened the guys life did he?

You’re not a politician are you frank?

franksinatra – Member
I don’t think the police did anything wrong with that driving,

from ^^ this to:

The driving wasn’t great but he hardly threatened the guys life did he?

You’re not a politician are you frank?

Fair point. For clarity then, I think the driving was inconsiderate and unprofessional, not dangerous.

People are seriously saying this isn’t too close? Particularly given the significant acceleration also going on? And given that this is a head mounted camera, not an “end of left handlebar” or “left elbow” mounted camera.

I second what was said earlier. Please don’t drive near me.

I second what was said earlier. Please don’t drive near me

Just because people question how much danger the policeman has put the cyclist in, it doesn’t mean they drive like him.

You can actually see the end of the bus lane in that photo, by the grey RR.

Absolutely no reason for the police car to be pulling back to the right.
If we was going to undertake in the bus lane then at least do it safely.

if he was on a job following that other car, I wonder what would happen if you smashed his wing mirror off – whether he’d just let you go and call it in, if he’d break off from the job and take you down or if he’d just pull out his Glock and pop you and carry on with his job.

OK, I’ve taken a longer look at all this and I’m changing my stance slightly. That is too close. And he doesn’t need to come back into the lane. So the cyclist does have a point. I guess this type of close pass happens so often in London, I’ve come to expect it, even from the fuzz. Still think the editing is suspicious though.

@brakes – fair point, made me LOL too.

he still RLJ’s [and cuts it out ] when he gives chase

This is the part that I keep coming back to. JRL is a bit dumb when there’s a copper around anyway, so I’d be surprised if he did.

But seriously, a car cuts you up, in London, so you chase it down and then vent. Not really the brightest thing to do in general (speaking from experience); if it’s plod the sensible thing to do is perhaps take the licence plate and complain later. Chasing it down smacks of ‘look at me, look at me, I’m wearing a camera so therefore I’m allowed to do whatever the hell I want’.

If the cop had got out and clocked him one, it would’ve been slightly funny, but more importantly it would’ve given justification for all this hullabuloo.
As it is, we have “cop driving like a kn0b, cyclist acting like a tool”, and a lot of hand-wringing.

I wonder what would happen if you smashed his wing mirror off

“we’ve code a code red. arrogant cyclist. requesting back up. over…”

Sorry, does this count as Godwins law?

stgeorge – Member
Should have called the copper a pleb……

+1. Would’ve made it all worth the excitement 🙂

seriously?! we still have coppers driving around without badges, refusing to provide their number to a member of the public? It is like nothing has changed since the miners strike. right or wrong that guy should have his numbers on

one more thing. I do think the cyclist was in the wrong lane. He pulled out to overtake the bus, he then stayed out when a car was edging out of the road on the left. Fine up until then. He should have then moved back into the bus lane as the right turn he was going for was waaaay off down the road.

the cyclist didn’t need to be in that lane. I sometimes wonder if people put a camera on their heads and then go out deliberately seeking a confrontration. Probably didn’t deserve having someone swerve towards him in a range rover for it though

Personally, I would have taken the bus lane, let any cars through up to when I needed to turn right, then looked, signaled and pulled into right lane again – seems to have been enough time for that. But, if he was turning right, and signaled, you can understand him hogging the lane – and if that was the case, you can understand the copper riding up the inside. BUT, he does come to close to the cyclist and doesn’t need to cut him up. He also shouldn’t be hiding his badge.
”I’ll sack police offices who hide identity badges”
None of which would justify RLJ, if that was the case. So I agree with nicko74’s kn0b/tool assessment.

It’s a tricky one. I suspect if I was turning right, I’d stay in the lane he’s in. The problem with moving back into the bus lane (with a bus behind you) is that if you want to go back into the right hand lane, you are invisible to any cars overtaking the bus, and cars overtaking the bus are pretty invisible to you.
Having said that I’d probably be right over on the right hand side of the lane in that case to indicate what my intentions are.

I’d stay in the lane. He wasn’t exactly going slowly. If you go back in the bus lane you’re almost immediately arriving at arrows directing you into the right lane for a right turn. It’s safer than two lane changes, it’s a tiny inconvenience to any following London driver who’s going to encounter many bigger ones. It’s not my job as a cyclist to help drivers get to the back of traffic light queues quicker.

sometimes wonder if people put a camera on their heads and then go out deliberately seeking a confrontration.

Yay! Two in ONE THREAD! Marvellous. Simply marvellous!

I’d have stayed in the right lane too. He’s only in it for about twenty seconds or so.

If he’d gone left stayed there for 15 seconds then gone right you’d be complaining he was swerving all over the road. Plus there’d be a good chance he’d get stuck in the left lane as cars behind him take the opportunity to overtake.

But even if you don’t think the cyclist was right, the cop shouldn’t be passing him so close or swerving at him to make a point.

No way was what the pig* did dangerous. But he was MAKING A POINT by cutting across the front of the cyclist. Anyone who commutes will recognise the move. You get it all the time from idiots who consider you to be in their way.

*pig – not, in this case, slang for policeman.

Those close support guys don’t mess about, and I bet the cyclist knew full well he’d split the following pack and was aware of what he was doing. Spend any time on the roads in London and you get to see these support combos about, so should know they take no prisoners. The copper would have been teaching him a lesson by pulling over in front – and quite probably with the full backing of whoever was in the silver rangie. Indeed I’m guessing had they thought the cyclist a threat in any way they’d have just driven over him with no hesitation.

The copper was at fault, that’s his job in this situation though. However, having said that, if he was indeed in close support then he made a right old hash of it didn’t he? Normally they block any errant driver that strays too close, so failed the instant that the cyclist got between him and the big dog in front. Didn’t read the road too well there did he. Then having a public row with the guy, on camera? One suspects he got a bit of a dressing down over this whole incident.

On a lighter note, this is currently my favourite headcam video

DezB – Member
No way was what the pig* did dangerous. But he was MAKING A POINT by cutting across the front of the cyclist.

I think it’s definitely dangerous to use your vehicle to make a point.

Also at 56 seconds does Andy McNab ( 😆 ) say ‘don’t you dare argue with me’?

I bet the cyclist knew full well he’d split the following pack and was aware of what he was doing

How would he know exactly what was behind him or what he had split? taking blaming the cyclist to a new level now IMHO

Normally they block any errant driver that strays too close, so failed the instant that the cyclist got between him and the big dog in front

A motorbike got between them when they were chatting and as he set off from the lights

So the lane splits in two…

option 1 – cyclist moves into left lanes, then into right lane to turn right. Driver moves into right lane then into left lane to go straight on.

option 2 – cyclist stays in right lane for a *few seconds* then driver moves to left and carries on.

Really, whoever designed the roads needs shooting. This swapping lanes thing happens far too often. Look at this one.. cycle lane on left goes straight on, road on right hand side turns left across it…

A motorbike got between them when they were chatting and as he set off from the lights

exactly! Close support means just that, and he failed the instant the cyclist pushed in between them. The copper allowed the situation to develop through his own inaction.

Once you’ve gotten into a tangle with the close support guys, you know full well to back off instantly. There’s no wrong or right here with regards to road design, rights of way etc.; Big Dog coming through, cyclist little person, cyclist has to move.

How would you know from the circumstances on the video that you’re in such a situation? I don’t get it.

So, the cyclist moves into bus lane (after red van and before speed bump – plenty of space for that). Lets vehicles waiting behind him pass. Likely they will take advantage of green light, then signals and moves back in to right lane at the point the arrows on the road show lane division – which is just before the lights. There’s enough time to let at least 3 cars through in that time slot, let alone the 1 car waiting behind him. But as mentioned, I can understand both approaches, i think both would be valid, so this is where choice comes in. But this is all beside the point surly? The question is whether the copper driving dangerously.

I have to say, this is the same guy showing excellent cycling manners and generally being a good guy:

How would you know from the circumstances on the video that you’re in such a situation? I don’t get it.

The first time it happens to you you don’t, you really have no idea; you just suddenly find yourself in a big mess surrounded by aggressive yet smiling coppers trying to literally force you off the road, and it is very unnerving indeed, if not downright frightening. You don’t have to be doing anything wrong either, just ambling along. They push through and onwards no matter what. It takes some time to calm down and assess what just happened; Police shouldn’t act that way!

The second time you are totally aware as it is a big lesson to learn and move well away very quickly as they have no interest in you. That’s why I find the video a bit odd. The cyclist is wearing a helmet camera as a matter of routine so one would think had experienced pretty much all that happens on our fine roads. These close support things are getting more common now, so not unusual and something quite a few should have experienced.

Right or wrong, it is what it is. If it is indeed close support then all the rules get thrown out, and unfortunately the cyclist is at fault no matter.

Again, if it was close support, the copper didn’t exactly control things vey well and let it get out of hand right from the off. Very sloppy policing and he should have been removed from post onto lesser duties in my opinion.

I think it’s definitely dangerous to use your vehicle to make a point.

Really? Really though? It’s effin annoying, yes. I get it all the time, but it’s not really dangerous. (Unless there’s a foight!)

Very sloppy policing and he should have been removed from post onto lesser duties in my opinion.

how come you know so much about it?
I reckon the cyclist probably cut him up when he pulled out round the bus. What could the officer have done besides drive through him to maintain close contact?

I probably see a close contact convoy go through and past Bank once a month and they appear to be very professional and very well rehearsed, but like you say, very aggressive.

Saw similar behaviour when watching the Tour of Britain and a stray farmer in a 4WD got a bit close to getting in the way. 😀

I have to say, this is the same guy showing excellent cycling manners and generally being a good guy

How can you say that when at 0:28 he quite clearly uses The Force to push over an old bloke?!?

I think it’s definitely dangerous to use your vehicle to make a point.

It can be very dangerous. I remember when I was about 13-14 my dad was driving us through France. Ahead at the side of the road he saw a drunk woman. There wasn’t a path as it was a very rural location but she was well over to the side but was wobbling a bit. My dad seemed to take offence to this and decided to pass her as close as he could to shake her up. I remember distinctly being really scared as he didn’t seem to be giving her much room at all.

He passed her so closely that the wing mirror hit her arm and broke it while sending her spinning. The Police were involved and my dad claimed she fell into the road as he passed. I knew that was crap, as did my brother, my dads new partner and her daughter but no one dared call him on it.

We haven’t spoken in years, but you get a nasty person who uses their car to make a point and people can really get hurt.

Edit…I also remember the conversation we had in the car as he approached…we were pleading with him not to pass too close to her. What a massive dick.

brakes – Member

I reckon the cyclist probably cut him up when he pulled out round the bus. What could the officer have done besides drive through him to maintain close contact?

Look, that might justify the undertake but it absolutely doesn’t justify cutting him up after the undertake- and neither has anything else in this thread. People can talk about whether it was dangerous or just ****, but it definately wasn’t right, or neccesary.

@ GrahamS LOL. Well, if you’ve got The Force, you have to use it. At least he has the manners to help him up afterwards though. 😀

The cyclist is wearing a helmet camera as a matter of routine so one would think had experienced pretty much all that happens on our fine roads

But you can see everything he saw (save for a bit of eye deflection that the camera won’t account for). All I see on that video is a range rover going by, after a bit of other traffic. No front-running police car that I can see. The first sign of police is when they’re inches from his handlebars. It’s not like a fancy-arse range rover is particularly uncommon in London.

How can you say that when at 0:28 he quite clearly uses The Force to push over an old bloke?!?

🙂

As usual a Jedi abusing it for self-aggrandisement.

So it’s not about right or wrong as a cyclist, as much as it is about being pragmatic and avoiding angering the one ton boxes. Yes this is crap but it’s realistic I reckon.

About as realistic as it gets in these kind of matters.