Hardline Tasmania

The first Red Bull Hardline Race outside of Wales… looks interesting with some big, BIG features and women racing for the first time with Tahnee Seagrave, Gracey Hemstreet taking part.

Race is being shown live on Red Bull TV at 5pm on Sunday… first big event of the year, should be an interesting one!

Looking forward to this! You can guarantee that when features manage to look big and scary on film they’re completely mental in the flesh. Should be a good one.

Tassie has some great mountain biking! Yeeeeewww!!!!!

(Check out Blue Derby trail network)

It looks massively fun, but obviously VERY different to Wales on a wet weekend, but of course we’d expect and want that.

The track looks really tight but possibly a bit lacking in certain features that made Hardline, well, Hardline. That said, i’m not sure all the features actually help the racing in Wales… so i’m not going to argue.

We’ll either be watching live or slightly delayed depending on what time we’re home.

Race is being shown live on Red Bull TV at 5pm on Sunday… first big event of the year, should be an interesting one!

7am (UK) Saturday morning according to the RB website.

Race is being shown live on Red Bull TV at 5pm

Its being shown at 7am on Saturday and isn’t going to be live, sure I’ve read 5 hours after it takes place so avoid social media if u don’t want to know results before its shown

Whoops – got my maths wrong on the timing

The track looks really tight but possibly a bit lacking in certain features that made Hardline, well, Hardline.

I’ve seen comments of this ilk in a few places, tbh I don’t think it’s fair. If you watch the track walk there’s are plenty of rock gardens/dusty off cambers/line choices etc. at least like for like to Wales. Just without the moisture.
Let’s not forget there are some huge doubles and drops in Wales, people seem to forget them when looking at the ones in Tazzy.

Yeah some of the camera angles are less flattering than others. The more that are coming out, the bigger some things look now

Not impressed by what I’ve seen of it so far, just manages to look like any other bike park or DH race, therefore loosing some of the exclusiveness that Hardline has.

Also Hardline W also looks like it’s riding a bike down an untamed hill (even though it’s completely man made) there’s nothing else quite like it

The Aussie version to me just looks like a harder DH course. Maybe that’s the way it’s going to go with DH racing ie contender to the ‘official’ DH series ?

It looks massively fun, but obviously VERY different to Wales on a wet weekend, but of course we’d expect and want that.

The Maydena area often isn’t dry, but the forecast is that it will still be dry and 22 degrees c on Saturday – looks like it could do with a shower or two though. Not sure what it will look like by then with 33 degrees on Thursday and 16 on Friday… maybe if there’s an evening shower that can soak in on Friday things will improve.

The one time I rode there (Xmas week) it was an absolute slop-fest. I had to turn round on one track because I couldn’t get enough traction on wheels or feet to get up a tiny hill!

In BKs latest YT, he was saying they’re going to have to change the start time (5pm here) because the sun is too low.

Some mates are going, one did a walk-through recently and said it’s super steep … i’m just hyped to actually be able to watch something live-ish.

Hah. Checked a couple of other forecasts and there’s rain forecast Thursday night. Hope it’s not too much!

Weather in Tasmania is notorious for changing fast.

watched the first hits video, looks good IMO

could be make or break for Redbull here. They potentially have everything “the fans” have been asking for/removed everything they think is wrong with the UCI races. I presume they have Warner commentating? Think they are also delaying the broadcast so they can edit it together a bit more slickly.

If it goes well, could be a viable alternate race series. If it tanks…

I can’t see why it wouldn’t be every bit as sucessful as Rampage, Hardline and even WCDH from previous years. BUT… and it’s a big big but… This still isn’t the ANSWER !!!

The answer is to make MTB and DH mainstream, like CycloCross, like XC, like roadie…. Not keep it nestled nicely in it’s little niche on RBTV. You’ve still only then got hardcore fans rather than generating new viewers from mainstream media. I bet apart from proper fans of DH, no-one is even aware there’s an event this weekend, where it is, when it is or how to watch it. Meanwhile the roadie crews get on Eursport and get millions of randoms watching it.

Hardline is brilliant, i love it… but it won’t increase the sport. (much)

Weeksy – completely get your point, but in theory the takeover of World Cup DH has been by a group making it more ‘mainstream’ and its failed spectacularly and become if more narrow in its appeal.

DH probably just isnt something that will ever appeal to a mass audience

DH probably just isnt something that will ever appeal to a mass audience

This.

It doesn’t matter how you dress it up or spoon feed it to regular civilians. DH has failed time and time again to spark any mainstream interest.

I’ve been following it since the mid 90’s. I don’t mind that it’s not a huge mainstream sport. If all the riders want to be showered with money they need to turn pro on a different kind of bike.

I honestly think I’m ok with DH being niche forever (he says having finally accepted he’s never going to be a pro-downhiller even though that should have probably been clear from age 15).

I’ve said before but I’d be quite happy if the UCI had nothing to do with either Enduro or DH.  Just let the sport figure itself out without interference from a group that has no understanding or interest.

Not having a major governing body in charge doesn’t necessarily mean that the sport is condemned to eternal obscurity.  Just look at Strongman/Strongwoman competitions to see an example of a niche sport that has wide appeal.  And that’s with every competitor being on massive amounts of PEDs.

 and its failed spectacularly and become if more narrow in its appeal.

Evidence? or just your gut? I didn’t much like Discovery’s coverage last year, although but its not going to be in their first year. I wouldn’t put myself in the “haterz” camp, they have a lot to do to improve, but they are trying new things, which is to be applauded, and some of those things won’t work, and that also should be fine. That everything they did was used to beat them over the head becasue they are “not Red Bull” last year is just bullshit.

Like @weeksy I think the future for DH is on mainstream TV, especially if you want riders to be paid properly for what they do, it’s a no brainer.

If it goes well, could be a viable alternate race series. If it tanks…

It wont because it’s not a race. It’s a promotional event where invited riders are paid to come and take part. Good for them for getting paid but let’s not pretended this is a race. For it to be a race it would require an open field for all those who are good enough to be able to enter. The fact that most of the WCDH top 30 aren’t there tells you where it fits within their and their sponsors priorities for the season. Im sure it will create some great entertainment and lots of social media for the promoter which is what it’s really about.

i also agree with Weeksy in that main stream tv is the only way the sport is ever going to grow, riders get paid more and the whole sport develops which with a bit of luck will increase the appeal for promoters to host races and we will get more of them in more places round the world.

 For it to be a race it would require an open field for all those who are good enough to be able to enter.

Nope, Invitations have nothing to do with competition. The start line is down to the organisers; the race is down to the competitors

The fact that most of the WCDH top 30 aren’t there tells you where it fits within their and their sponsors priorities for the season

How d’you know they weren’t invited to take part and have just turned it down for reasons that have nothing to do with their sponsors or Hard Line’s difficulty. For instance; I’d say that Gwin is probably capable of doing it, but he’s got his hands full sorting his new team

For it to be a race it would require an open field for all those who are good enough to be able to enter.

Pretty sure anyone who wants to be there, is there. This has been on the cards for a year, all the top WC riders are friends.

Fearon is there in his Monster Helmet, so RB havent blocked that.

Someone said above, it seems to be toned down compared to Wales, more in line with world cup difficulty. I guess riders, especially the non AUS/NZ ones wouldn’t know that before accepting or declining – Bruni quite publicly turned it down.

the future for DH is on mainstream TV

when did you last watch mainstream TV? everything is streamed, on demand, everywhere.

I get suggested videos on FB, insta (and I assume twitter, tik tok work the same) of various outdoor/extreme sports because I follow mountain biking. I’ve got no real interst in surfing for example, but a 10 second clip of a big wave ride will lure me in, then click the description to find out about it, then see its from an event, etc etc. I never would have found out about it otherwise.

It just takes one clip in the middle of an avid snowboarder (for example)’s feed, could get them hooked on a new expensive sport. Or maybe they will just get a craving for energy drinks.

It doesn’t matter how you dress it up or spoon feed it to regular civilians. DH has failed time and time again to spark any mainstream interest.

If Ski Sunday with downhill skiing can be a thing why not bikes? Much more relatable for most people.

when did you last watch mainstream TV? everything is streamed, on demand, everywhere.

This.

Last year was the first year I was actually paying for and watching cycling (all formats, basically anything that was on GCN).

This year I’ll only be watching RB offerings (or anyone else who offers cycling on a platform that is decent VFM).

If you aren’t living in the UK (and possibly even if you are living in the UK) Discovery+ is just not good VFM.

If Ski Sunday with downhill skiing can be a thing why not bikes? Much more relatable for most people.

I’ve often wondered about that.  Also, why does no one want to spend their summers in ski resorts mountain biking?  I guess skiing is just something that is seen as aspirational whereas mountain biking is seen as a bunch of kids messing about in the woods.

I suspect it’s a classism thing.

It wont because it’s not a race.

The clock will be ticking and the fastest rider will be the winner. It doesn’t matter at all that little Tommy and Billy from Hobart weren’t allowed to enter. It’s not like the biggest, most visible, mainstream forms of racing or motorsport are accessible to everyone.

The fact that most of the WCDH top 30 aren’t there tells you where it fits within their and their sponsors priorities for the season

WC racers don’t have to be Hardline racers, they can be 2 different things. If WC riders want to stay behind a paywall doing a pointless semi-final and being commentated on by a couple of witless muppets for a fraction of the previous viewership it’s totally their decision.

I think the future for DH is on mainstream TV

Who even watches actual TV anymore? It’s dying out and so are the viewers.

If Ski Sunday with downhill skiing can be a thing why not bikes? Much more relatable for most people

I don’t think DH is relatable at all. One of the things that I love about it is that I fully appreciate how difficult and dangerous it is having done it myself for years. I’m also completely mystified by how the top riders go as fast as they do and I love to see the world’s best on the ragged edge. To a Regular Joe who rides a bike once a year at Centre Parcs it just looks like a bunch of idiots riding down a hill on a bike. It just doesn’t translate.

How d’you know they weren’t invited to take part and have just turned it down for reasons that have nothing to do with their sponsors or Hard Line’s difficulty.

I have no idea, just like the rest of us on this forum, unless we work for RB. Let’s assume that anyone who qualified for a WCDH final men’s and women’s last season got an invitation and was offered the same or at least a similar appearance fee to those who are attending. The question then is why aren’t they there? There will be a whole host of reasons. My point is that those other reasons were clearly more important than attending this event. If it was the first round of the WCDH they would all be there. I doubt it is the cost as some of them appear to be in New Zealand doing winter training judging by the socials.

when did you last watch mainstream TV? everything is streamed, on demand, everywhere.

By mainstream I mean something that regular folks can get without having to go on the ‘net and look for it. Eurosport for instance. Where the rest of the cycling world’s races are shown endlessly. If I can watch a random 2nd division Belgian cobble race or a minor stage race in Kuala Lumpur on a wet Saturday afternoon, there’s no reason that can’t be a DH race instead.

By mainstream I mean something that regular folks can get without having to go on the ‘net and look for it.

You reckon the audience for DH lies in the over-50s demographic?

Not saying you’re wrong but I wouldn’t call it a growing market.

the track just looks insane fun.  Did you see LSD from the ‘first hits’ with Kerr’s POV from after the big forest drop (into the right hander) and down to the top of the road gap?  it was so fast and exhilerating.  It was towards the end after they’d first sessioned the big drop (about 19 mins in).

The women are doing really well, I thought they might struggle with the aforementioned forest drop but they were hitting it yesterday.  It seems like the hardest feature just cos of the run it and situation – the road gap just looks straightforward (albeit massive).

Also, the second of the big forest drops that goes immediately into a sharp lefthander looks so hard.  And the woman were bossing it again.

I’ve not seen any footage of the final big double yet?  I’ll have a look now.  Was it nerfed after Kerr got them to flatten the take off?

also: as an aside just caught up with the Matt Jones’ YT channel and his vids from Darkfest.  Tom Isted flipping that 110 footer was amazing.  Surely one of the heaviest MTB moves of all time?  I’ve never heard of him before but that was insane.

EdIT: just seen that BK has uploaded a new vid with a full run through so looking forward to seeing some double action

I’ve not seen any footage of the final big double yet? I’ll have a look now. Was it nerfed after Kerr got them to flatten the take off?

They made it 30ft shorter. Now looks like they are overjumping it.

I like Hardline as a concept. It’s an addition to World Cup, not a replacement, and the southern hemisphere race fills a void in the calendar where not much is happening which I think is pretty positive (as long as it doesn’t create loads of pre World Cup injuries).

It may not be World Cup calibre, but it’s a race with a pretty stacked entry and they do a far better job of building hype and anticipation than the current World Cup hosts have managed.

There’s footage of Brayton doing that last double out there now. It still looks maaaaaaassive!

And the clip of Golstone absolutely ripping that left hander to shreds is savage. My son and I watched it open mouthed. Absolute animal!

Edit:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3jTmvyJ19I/?igsh=MW1reHhjMzVoaW9tMg==

TV / no TV. I really don’t care who the broadcaster is as long as they are good. If it goes behind a paywall it needs to be better than what was freely available – last year it wasn’t.

Personally I can’t see DH grabbing mainstream popularity so I think the best approach would be to make it as accessible as possible to those that have a passing interest. Danny Hill’s Champery run occasionally goes viral again and Danny Macaskil’s edits seem to transcend beyond MTB but beyond that how many of your non MTB friends show any interest? Lots of my mates follow motorsports rather than football etc, so you’d expect them to be easier wins but I’ve not seen it.

I do think Vali and Jackson are potentially personalities that could lift the sport in a way others havent.

Looking forward to watching it, course looks interesting and maybe better than Wales for racing – we’ll have to see.

Notice nobody is saying: “If only we had to pay to watch it on Discovery and listen to Ric on the commentary”

mark88
TV / no TV. I really don’t care who the broadcaster is as long as they are good. If it goes behind a paywall it needs to be better than what was freely available – last year it wasn’t

+1

I pay enough subscriptions currently and I don’t need another one.  Especially not a one trick pony (as far as I’m concerned).  I’d happily pay pro-rata for the DH WC but I don’t want any of the rest of the WB/Discovery content.

Mainstream TV? I guess that means free to air – these days for my kids at least, that’s Youtube. If you’re not doing great little edits with the associated shorts, you’re not going anywhere. DH is almost made for it but now it’s been sold off with the rest of the UCI family silver.

Also, why does no one want to spend their summers in ski resorts mountain biking?

Eh? I do, together with a whole load of Brits in Morzine and the rest of Europe in Austria.

Personally I can’t see DH grabbing mainstream popularity so I think the best approach would be to make it as accessible as possible to those that have a passing interest. Danny Hill’s Champery run occasionally goes viral again and Danny Macaskil’s edits seem to transcend beyond MTB but beyond that how many of your non MTB friends show any interest? Lots of my mates follow motorsports rather than football etc, so you’d expect them to be easier wins but I’ve not seen it.

I’d love to sit here and actually believe that someone somewhere is actively asking these questions in the coridors of power at Discovery+, but you know what, sadly i’m not honestly sure that’s the case.

What confuses me is that must have bid for the WCDH series to beat RedBull, (assuming RB still wanted it) so you’d expect that they have something in mind to grow the sport to increase their viewers and revenue…. But that’s just not being seen is it.
I get that the commentary team were new to it and despite me not being in love with them, at times they were not terrible.. Well, Cedric was terrible, like really really bad…

I don’t have a clue what the answer is though. But part of me agrees that it’s great that in a way it’s not mainstream, it’s supposed to be arsing about in the woods etc, but that doesn’t help in terms of revenue/salaries for riders. There’s still too few of them who’ll make a living out of it. Of course some will say “why should they”… well, they’ve as much right to make a living out of it as someone doing skiing, skating, even cookery lol.. But they’ll only manage that, if they get interest. Sometimes it takes something really lucky to hit a winning formula, like GBBO, who’d have thought people knocking up a cake would ever snowball into personalities making money and changing their lives.. But it has and they do. Will DH… i sadly doubt it will…. but it should.
I mean if Darts can pull £1,000,000 prizes, Snooker can beat that, heck, surely a DH race is more exciting !!!

Eh? I do, together with a whole load of Brits in Morzine and the rest of Europe in Austria.

I think he means ‘normal’ people, the people who spend £10,000 to go skiing… The people who don’t watch skiing, but still go there once a year to partake in the frippery and lifestyle… You don’t see many of them in Morzine. Morzine is stacked with MTBers yes… but not so many random families.

Also, why does no one want to spend their summers in ski resorts mountain biking?

Apart from the huge line in front of me queueing for the Zore chair? Dunno, mate.

Not to worry, give it a decade and most people winter holidaying in Morzine will be on bikes.

You reckon the audience for DH lies in the over-50s demographic?

Does the age of the people watching the adverts matter? Does Alpine skiing worry about the demographic watching its races? Athletics? Darts? Road racing? or any of the 101 other niche sports that are probably paying their competitors more money than DH riders are getting currently?

so you’d expect that they have something in mind to grow the sport to increase their viewers and revenue…. But that’s just not being seen is it.

In between Discovery winning the bid and airing the series, they had a massive shake up to save money. What they wanted to do before, and what they’re willing to do now, are probs a bit different.

Well, I got to all of 32 seconds of that course before meeting a feature I’d definitely refuse. 😂🤣