Hammerschmidt…

2 questions (one I've asked before, can't remember the answer! 🙂 )

1) Will it be OK with an Alfine? I'm thinking it doesn't change the chain length etc so should be just like a SS setup? I now have the frame I need with ICSG mounts, so that's good 8)

2) Where in the UK can I get one for a reasonable price… can't justify £550+ for the chainset/BB/shifter 😯 … but could just about get my head around £400 or thereabouts for the lot (importing from the States may be the way to go?). On the off chance, does anyone know of a bike store/supplier who could do something like this? 😆

Just you wait to see my upcoming Franken-bike… it's going to set new levels for nicheness 😉

You'll need the iscg fittings on the frame. For real nichness, a beltdrive Hammerschmitt/Alfine would be hard to beat.

You'll need the iscg fittings on the frame

Prototype Orange Sub-zero with ICSG mounts and sliding dropouts… check 😀

Looking around, I could get a full Hammerschmidt setup from the US (off Ebay) for around £345 inc UPS worldwide delivery (plus whatever customs fee I get hit with, though maybe I'll get lucky 🙂 ) Seems like a decent deal…

I really want a hammerthingy but 1) don't have the money and 2) still have doubts about the BB's, but really like the idea.

Looking still further… I can get a full setup off the Bay for £300! And I have a mate flying in from New York next week… I can see a plan coming together 😉 as Mr Burns would say:

Call me cynical but I'd love to see how one stands up to a full on winter riding season through Rivi grit.

I guess I'll let you know next year 😉 (though maybe not with much Rivi grit in the equation… more Surrey Hills type muck 🙂 )

whats the smallest gear ratio allowed on an alfine? the 22t of the hammer might input a bit too much torque?

Going for the 24/38 version, not sure what the smallest ratio Alfine can take, and wouldn't the bigger ring be the one inputting more torque? I don't know… who should I ask I wonder?

Through a friend of a friend i can get hold of a complete one for about £250, but now havent a frame to fit it on. Would be interesting to see how you get on with it…

I'm interested in trying a HS to see if there's noticeable transmission drag when in overdrive. It just gets a cursory mention on some reviews (drag appears to be more noticeable) but I feel it's an important point for long term use especially on AM type bikes that are used on all day hill rides.

psychle – Member
I guess I'll let you know next year (though maybe not with much Rivi grit in the equation… more Surrey Hills type muck )

Ever wondered what happens to all that sand in the Surrey Hills come winter? Yep, it gets turned in to a highly abrasive gritty gloop!

Swiftacular, that's a bloody good price (stating the obvious)… don't suppose I could get a 'through a friend of friend of a chap I don't know on STW' rate of around £300? 😉 Would much prefer to buy in the UK rather than import, support the local economy and all that 🙂

and wouldn't the bigger ring be the one inputting more torque?

nope. more torque created by an low gear. think about it like this – your legs produce a fixed amount of power (ish) but you can wheel spin in first but not 27th. 🙂

HTH

Ill have to test the water, although he did get me a Truvativ Noir Crankset for £180 so could be true. Think i may be investing in some 2010 Revs soon too.

champion guv'ner… appreciate it 🙂 Drop me an email if you get a chance (any idea how long it might be before you might find out? just that my mate flys over next week from the States, this'll be my best chance to get it cheaply if it can't be done in the UK… thanks again for checking 🙂 )

I have one on test at the moment – Inital experience of it in this coming issue of singletrack. ;]

Matt

cool… I'll look out for it 🙂 any quick sneaky comments for now? is it worth splashing out on?

I've had one since April. I live in the mountains, am mildly overweight, frequently malco-ordinated and occasionally race downhill, so I'm not exactly renowned for being gentle on parts. so far the Hammerschmidt has been flawless, despite me not having the ISCG tab facing tool for installation. There is almost no discernible drag and the BB is holding up well. I have the grey AM cranks – while obviously not as stiff as the Diabolus on my DH bike, they're at least as good as the Hones I have on my hardtail.

is it worth it? yes and no. if you're racing and want to save as much weight as possible, then no (it's undeniably ever so slightly porky. just like me, in fact.) if you want a fit-and-forget system that works *incredibly* well and removes all those "help I'm stuck in the big ring at the bottom of a climb and can't escape" moments, then go out and buy it. Mine is on a 6.5" all-day bike; for long days out in big mountains I think it's the ideal choice.

excellent to hear Monsieur Marmot… you've sold me 😉 I'm getting one 🙂 Though mine will be on a hardtail to start with (my long-travel 'hardcore' beasty… not that I'm in any way 'hardcore 🙄 )

STOP!

IGMC

doom doom doom doomp… you know the tune 🙂

good lad. you won't regret it!

Have you looked at the gear ratios? or experimented with a straight 24 tooth chainring running an Alfine?

I'd say that a 24 chainring driving the smallest of sprockets on the Alfine (16 I think) would provide some completely unsuable gears. You'd have to be climbing some enormously steep hills to use some of those ratios and if you were then your legs would be spinning at 100+rpm and youd be moving a walking pace.

Unless you have found otherwise…..

blob i think you got you numbers backwards.

24/16 with an alfine in hammertime gives a lowest gear equivalent to a 22-28 on a normal drivetrain, and a top gear equivalent to a 44-11. (i think anyway)

id prob go 24/20, give a lower top end (equiv to 36-11) and lower bottom end (22-34, i like spinning up hills :0)

I've had my OEM one on my 20O9 Attack Trail since the snow in Feb. Commute to work 5 days a week on it, and do offroad stuff on the weekends and occasional evenings. It works a treat. It's dead easy to take apart and clean, and it makes front mechs look and feel shite. You never get problems in mud or snow or grit, (unlike rear cassette), chain never falls off, and if like me you occasionally ride in jeans, you'll never get them caught in it. Clearance for logs and drop-offs is superb. There's a bit of drag, so for XC race, then no, but for classic XC rides where you try and climb the silliest gradients and hammer the descents (ie the riding most of us probably do) then there's nothing better that I've tried. I'd love a hub gear at the back, but I'm running a Maxle 12mm CrossMax SX wheelset so can't do it.
I fitted the 24t though as the 22t standard set up was too low for XC use.
It would be nice to up the front to 26T though…oh well can't have it all eh?
Oh, even the bb has held up for what, 6 months now….that's good for Truvativ!
Buy one!

STATO: You may be right. But it's worth checking.

My IO came with a 36/18 (e.g. an 'input ratio' of 2) a combo which I felt to be too hard on some of the harder gradients I regularly ride. I changed it to 36/20 (input of 1.8) which brought it down so the tough gradients were achievable. Unfortunately, above about 18mph I spin out.

If you alter the chainring/sprocket combo to 24/16 then this brings the input down to 1.5 which I think will be silly low given the difference a 0.2 drop made to me.

I don't have the alfine ratios at hand however and bow to anyone's better judgement!

Edit: if anyone's going to work this out, I'd be interested in how much overlap there would be in the available 16 gears….

Alfine ratios here:
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/shimano-nexus.html

8 1.615:1
7 1.419:1
6 1.223:1
5 1:1
4 0.851:1
3 0.748:1
2 0.644:1
1 0.527:1

I'd sell the Alfine and buy a Rohloff for the sort of money you're looking at- it'll be a seriously heavy bike with both on it.

Blob: that was me checking, i have spreadsheets :0)

LOL! I was just putting a spreadsheet together!

Here you go….

GEEK ALERT!!!!

(sheet 2 has the ratios in order, so you can see overlaps etc.)

Cheers for the spreadsheet Stato… so is this a bad/good thing? I don't really understand what the figures are showing me 🙁

sorry, its one i made for myself ages ago so its not exactly 'user friendly'. Basically it works out the equivalent ratio of the gear you use combined with the ratios of the Alfine, then gives that ratio as gear you would get in a normal drivetrain.

So in the column 'equates to chainring*sprocket' you can see that in gear 1 of the alfine is equivalent to running a 36t ring and a 36t rear sprocket, in gear 8 it would be the same as a 36t front and a 12t rear. All of that for a 20t on the alfine and a 38t front ring (or overdrive if we are talking hammertime). The second chart works out the same but for a 24t front sprocket.

I think that you're going to lose a lot of power through frictional losses at both ends.

I've got power to burn baby 🙂 Whilst I dont expect the crank arms to spin 100% freely, I don't think there'll be that much resistance/loss?

there wont be much, but youll feel and hear it and there will be days where it will sap energy from your soul as your working away on a hill only for all your hard fought efforts to be wasted by that damned drive train! (well, thats whatll be going on in your head, ex-rohloff owner talking here)

Presumably if you were that much at the limit, you'd be in the bottom hammertime gear (eg the 22) in which case it's 1:1 and there's no real loss 😉

so… general consensus is that it'll be a bit heavier than a 'normal' derailleur based setup (doesn't really bother me) and will have a little bit of drag/loss of power (again, doesn't bother me); these are the only real downsides that we can see (apart from cost, though it's not that bad if I get one from the States)?

Positives are that I'll be able to shift gears standing still etc, much better ground clearance, no derailleurs to tune or break, winter/muck proof (?) and of course it'll look rather cool (clean SS lines with 16 gears to play with…)

Anything I've missed?