#TOTW Ghosts – do they exist?

I don’t believe in ghosts but I agree that some things are not easily explained.

I used to have a volunteer caretaker type role for an outdoor adventure centre accommodation building. It used to be a large church hall and caretaker accommodation for the church. There were two or three rooms down in one corner of the building where I always felt very, very uncomfortable. To be honest, I used to be scared going into them. No good reason for it, I never saw anything, no one ever told me a ghost story. The building was refurbed and all the internal walls ripped out and rebuilt to totally different configuration. Still got the same feeling. A few months later I had a military unit staying there overnight whilst doing a LEJOG. The guy staying in that room got up in the night, ran out of the building in his pants and point blank refused to go back in. He slept in a minibus. Absolutely refused to talk about it but was terrified.

I don’t know what was going on.

Yeah my grandparents made up stories too.

Oh yes, absolutely I’m not claiming any sort of veracity at all for this. merely passing on a ghost story to add to the heap. I don’t think for a second that it has any more veracity than any other ghost story as told by a father to his son.

I’m as skeptical as the next atheist about ghostly shenanigans however…

In the late 90s, the wife and I rented an 250 year old mining cottage at Ellenabeich on Seil for a week’s holiday. Part way through the week, we were watching TV in the main room when we both heard a loud clatter from the bedroom. Went in to find a framed painting lying on the floor in the middle of the room. The wall hook, several feet away, was secure, as was the brass chain on the back of the picture.

To prove to the wife (of a highly religious upbringing) that it had just fallen off and there was now’t freaky going on, I decided to demonstrate that the picture could be hung precariously with the chain balanced atop the hook. Despite my best efforts, the chain wouldn’t stay put and would either immediately settle securely onto the hook or fall off.

The only rational explanation is that some unknown force had physically lifted the picture up off the hook and thrown it across the room. We were alone in the cottage, the windows were shut and the only external door was from the main room. I have no answer to this but, given the age of the cottage, plenty people will have died there. Sadly, so did my chances of further nookie that week.

Sadly, so did my chances of further nookie that week.

So you’re saying the unexplained event put the willies up her and you didn’t?

The only rational explanation

That was an irrational explanation.

The only rational explanation is that some unknown force had physically lifted the picture up off the hook and thrown it across the room.

‘rational’ doing some very heavy lifting (and a bit of throwing) there.  That’s pretty much a textbook definition of irrational!

Because a person’s consciousness, his soul and energy, cannot just disappear after his death.

I think that’s what death is, isn’t it?

I used to work at a place that was a WW2 airfield where they assembled Liberator bombers and took them on test flights. There was a memorial to the aircrew that had perished there. The old hospital block was one of the few remaining buildings of that era, subsequently converted into offices. From folks that used to work there, particularly late at night there were lots of doors banging, lights going on an off. This was an access controlled building, so people couldn’t walk in and out. After one particular ‘busy’ night a colleague asked for the security log to check who had been going in an out – it turn out he was the only one thee apart from the security guys doing their regular checks.

Because a person’s consciousness, his soul and energy, cannot just disappear after his death.

I think that’s what death is, isn’t it?

Unless you’re a strawberry plant. (Infinite Monkey Cage reference…)

Staying in a rental cottage, allegedly haunted. Bro and his wife in a loft room. In middle of the night they were woken by a knock on the room door, which then slammed open. No windows open or obvious draft. No-one else up in the middle of the night. Sure there’s a good explanation but they were a bit freaked out by it.

Is this the prequel to the Omen?

I know my dad did some exorcisms on some new builds where they’d found saxon burial ground during construction. Don’t know if was “just in case” or “because of” haunting.
Newsagent in a c16th building had a poltergeist & used to get right pissed off when it threw the stock around the shop at night.

@codybrennan that’s some story and sounds quite traumatic for you. It echoes a few experiences I’ve had which eventually in later life (after running out of possible explanations) lead me to surmise that it’s most likely something in the scope of

Time travel, parallel universes

So at least I (and other witnesses) have something to pin on certain shadowy figures/voices/music/strange synchronicities. Filed in my head under ‘unexplained, possible that I understand ‘time’ even less than I thought’.

There was a hilarious thread on our Village Facebook page about Ghosts last year.
Most common sightings either involved men taking a shortcut home across the allotments after a heavy Friday night in the pub and hearing voices, etc.. or women waking up to a strange man in their bedroom, again after a night in the pub.

Newsagent in a c16th building had a poltergeist & used to get right pissed and threw the stock around the shop at night.

FTFY

Because a person’s consciousness, his soul and energy, cannot just disappear after his death.

Why not?

I have never heard a convincing ghost anecdote or story.  That’s not to say I haven’t heard a lot whose tellers were utterly convinced they’d had a paranormal experience.  This includes close relatives and good mates.  It’s not that I don’t believe that they think they experienced some kind of paranormal event, just that I think that’s the least likely explanation.  Some people seem predisposed to leap at that particular ‘explanation’ for unexplained stuff whereas others just think ‘that was a bit strange’ and shrug it off.

It’s absolutely fine to not know why something has happened or to not have an immediate explanation for it.  That doesn’t mean it’s ghosts, UFOs, pixies, fairies or leprechauns.

Most common sightings either involved men taking a shortcut home across the allotments after a heavy Friday night in the pub

PMSL! That is synchronous. Went for a drink in Bewdley one night with mate just over a week ago. I had the designated driver pull over on the way home so I could take a slash down off a dark footpath. V nearly progressed directly to offloading a No. 2 when I looked over my shoulder to see in the gloom what looked like a very thin skeletal-looking woman in white full-length dress (took a couple of shaky zoomed pics on my phone to show car-occupants in case they didn’t believe me)

The nearby, allotments, of course 😅

Despite my best efforts, the chain wouldn’t stay put and would either immediately settle securely onto the hook or fall off.

The only rational explanation is that some unknown force had physically lifted the picture up off the hook and thrown it across the room

Or that the someone had previously (badly, probably accidentally) hung the picture by the back of it’s frame, rather than it’s chain. I’ve hung a lot of pictures over the years and even I’ve cocked it up a few times, fumbling around in a rush, thinking the hanging-wire/chain is engaged with hook, when it really is some rebate/gap/frame/staple just catching in the tip of the hook. Also, if the picture falls on a corner at a twist, the weight and velocity combined on the twisting corner can send it cartwheeling (or sliding) a surprising distance.

The only rational explanation is that some unknown force had physically lifted the picture up off the hook and thrown it across the room.

‘rational’ doing some very heavy lifting (and a bit of throwing) there. That’s pretty much a textbook definition of irrational!

That was an irrational explanation.

Point missed gents. It is perfectly rational that the picture required an external force to uplift it and transport it across the room. It clearly didn’t float off the hook and go for a wee fly around the room by itself. What isn’t rational is how such an external force could be applied to an inanimate object in an empty bedroom. That’s the bit I have no explanation for and is what prompted me to contribute to the thread. The event didn’t suddenly persuade me to believe in ghosts.

Sometimes it’s worth thinking about the way these stories develop, and I hope I’m not being too mean using this as an example, but from a cynic’s point of view..

I used to work at a place that was a WW2 airfield where they assembled Liberator bombers and took them on test flights.

In this country, or the US? They were built in the US and flown across, weren’t they? Google suggests that they had 5 huge factories in the US, no mention of factories elsewhere. Would they have been built in the US then disassembled, shipped across the Atlantic and rebuilt and tested? Even if they were, I can’t imagine a huge death rate in doing this.

There was a memorial to the aircrew that had perished there.

There are memorials to dead aircrew everywhere. They never died – or rarely – where the memorials are located.

The old hospital block was one of the few remaining buildings of that era, subsequently converted into offices.

Hospital block or sickbay? Again, not many people are likely to have died there, even if they had a full hospital block.

There’s an ex WW2 airfield about 5 miles from here, flight crew war graves in a nearby church. There’s a D-Day marshalling area nearby. Literally up the road there are Nissen shelters, the only remnants of a huge US camp that was a few hundred metres away. The main hospital for this area was originally for the US troops. There are ex WW2 facilities everywhere around the country. If even a fraction of these places were haunted, there’d be ghostly soldiers every few miles in the UK.

It is perfectly rational that the picture required an external force to uplift it and transport it across the room.

Is it?  Would boring gravity not suffice if, as suggested by p7eaven above, the picture had been hung precariously by the edge of the frame rather than the chain and simply fallen off and bounced?  For example, other explanations may be possible.  I’m sure we’ve all experienced that weird slow motion thing where we drop something fragile – glass or china, convinced it will shatter into a million pieces and it ‘miraculously’ bounces and remains intact?

(Playing the ball not the player)

It clearly didn’t float off the hook and go for a wee fly around the room by itself.

FTFY

Point missed gents. It is perfectly rational that the picture required an external force

Agreed.

Because a person’s consciousness, his soul and energy, cannot just disappear after his death.

Well as someone who has seen countless people die in front of me, it does. Well part from the energy of course which is returned to the soil or burnt.

It is perfectly rational that the picture required an external force to uplift it and transport it across the room.

It is.

But it isn’t rational to conclude that that’s what happened therefore Ghosts, rather than as P7 suggested it was badly hung in a way you couldn’t replicate plus gravity and momentum. Or as hinted previously, that the owner of a 250-year old guest house might have rigged up a prop to fuel a potentially lucrative narrative about their haunted house.

Because a person’s consciousness, his soul and energy, cannot just disappear after his death.

we to be fair their is no proof of soul and human energy is a result of metabolic function, so once the stops there is no energy, other than the inherent calorific value if we burn bodies for energy in an ERF.

tim minchin on critical thinking

Not sure I want to wade through three pages of this, but the answer is no.

The most scary thing about this thread is that it brings to mind possibly the worst lyric in history:

‘I’m afraid to see a ghost, it’s the sight that I fear most, rather have a piece of toast, watch the evening news.’

(shudders)

So you’re saying the unexplained event put the willies up her and you didn’t?

Thought this deserved recognition 👏

Low-hanging fruit.

I wonder if there are parallels here with the conspiracy thread and that graphic.  It suggests that once someone is predisposed to believe in some of the more outlandish conspiracy theories, there is a tendency for them to believe them all.  Believe in Qanon? You might like the flat earth, illuminati, Finland doesn’t exist etc.

Is it the same with people who believe in the supernatural?  If you come to the conclusion ‘well ghosts, obviously’ to explain something you’ve observed, does that mean fairies, unicorns, leprechauns etc. are also on the table?  If not, why not seeing as the amount of proof for the existence of any of them is about the same?

Prior to disabling my hand a couple of weeks ago I was spending lots of evenings alone in the workshop.

Got jeebees a few times. Random clunking noises (pump truck with a dodgy seal), compressor hose twisting (change in air pressure), odd noises and flashing lights from the office (pinball machine left on) and radom figures standing in the shadows (drugs).

My very unnerving incident happened in a homeless unit in Nottingham. It was one of the older parts of the city, near to the goose fair area.

It’s a house run by a Christian organization for homeless teens called Macedon. – Anyone from there the house is in a street called Forest Rd west.

Anyway. I got a place there and the room was one of two attic rooms, pretty small. The houses are quite big, over 3 or 4 floors. The attic rooms would be live in staff, nannies or the like.

First incident was i had an old fireplace in the room which had a board over it. I took the board away because it was quite nice and i was nosey. Started cleaning th ash from around it and had the feeling i didnt want anything else to do with this fireplace, it was giving me a bit of a chill, so I covered it back up again.

Incident that made me leave the house and go back to sleeping int he night shelter was i was lying in bed, and id pinned a lamp to the wall as a reading light, and was turned towards the wall reading one night and felt really cold. Top of the house, probably in spring so wasnt cold really, but i felt really cold.

Something happened to the blanket behind me at about shoulder level and I got a bit of a chill and began to feel a little scared. So I turned a bit, trying to recreate what had happened but couldnt and pretty much dismissed it.

Then something sat on the end of the bed.

I didnt see the mattress depress or anything, i felt it move right next to my feet and i leapt out of bed and out the room like shit off a hot tin shovel. It wasn’t just a little movement and i wasn’t moving so i know it wasnt something i did, it was something larger and the feeling was it depressed the bed quite a bit.

Outside as im heading down the stairs i met one of the other residents, a schizophrenic Jewish guy a bit older than me(I was 17) who said i was white as a sheet and obviously terrified. I explained what had happened, and he offered to say some Hebrew prayers which he did. Im in no way religious, and i readily agreed and he set about with whatever prayers Jews say in such things. Felt comforted by it.

Now I’ve slept in graveyards, forests, old buildings and basements of abandoned factories etc etc, by myself between the ages of 16-18 and never once felt uncomfortable. I’d say sleeping out you are very aware of sounds and many of these places are extremely quiet, with not a soul about.

No way i was going into that room again and certainly not to sleep.

Pretty much buggered off back to the street after that.

Very very strange and over the years I’ve thought about that incident, trying to make sense of and if it was something i did, and no it wasn’t. I know for 100% something, or whatever pressed down on the end of that bed.

What if some horrific event (gruesome murder or the like) was enough to leave a sort of psychic “footprint” at a certain location that some people are more susceptible to experiencing?

I doubt it’s the case but it’s the only even vaguely plausible explanation of what we term “ghosts” that I’ve heard of.

I actually was a ghost in a previous incarnation, so I can assure you we do exist.

Because a person’s consciousness, his soul and energy, cannot just disappear after his death.

I’d like to say a thought I’ve had about this, mainly from a bit of research about death and dying.

We sat with my Father in his final hours and he was pretty much in a deep coma type of sleep from the drugs they give you in those last few days.

You stop breathing, but the mind continues for a while as it all shuts down. I think if in this situation with a loved one, mum,dad, whomever when the last breath has taken place, Do Not say, ‘oh well that’s it, or I think he/she is dead now’ because the mind is still operating and can hear.

Being told you are dead I think the brain might become very very frightened and what you should do instead if you notice the passing is to say. ‘You just have a little sleep now, we’re going downstairs etc etc to have a coffee’ and leave it for at least an hour before calling a nurse/doctor or whoever you need to call at the end of life to confirm it. Allow things to run a natural course and don’t make final statements.

Just a thought. Yes I know its a deep coma they’ll be in, but we know the mind is still operating for at least a while. I have read some instances of things dying people do that you don’t expect them to do including trying to get out of bed. So there is operating at an unconscious level going on, and i think it best we don’t interfere with it.

@dyna-ti.  I am absolutely not downplaying what you have said and I believe you are genuine in what you think you experienced. However, Our minds and particularly the subconscious play tricks on the best of us, and create experiences which seem very vivid and real. Especially at those times of our lives when we are going through emotional turmoil or whatever.

I can certainly remember incidents in my childhood where I was terrified at night in bed and utterly convinced there was something under the bed, in the wardrobe etc.  I can now rationalise that this was the overactive imagination of a slightly mixed up kid/teenager.

I don’t know, but can imagine that being young, homeless and in a hostel in a strange city could be more than a little unsettling and even frightening at times?  Is it possible that this could have contributed to your experiences?

No, i have a way of accepting things that happen, and tbh it was more of a big adventure for me. I acknowledge pretty dangerous at times, but it is only now,decades in the future i can accept the dangers. At the time i was oblivious to it.

It didnt bother me hitchhiking the length and breadth of Britain or sleeping in strange places or even at times being attacked or abused. I just accepted these things and got on with it.

If ghosts do exist then why be scared? What’s the worst they can do to you? Sit on your bed? Knock a picture off the wall?

What if some horrific event (gruesome murder or the like) was enough to leave a sort of psychic “footprint” at a certain location that some people are more susceptible to experiencing?

I doubt it’s the case but it’s the only even vaguely plausible explanation of what we term “ghosts” that I’ve heard of.

Yep. That’s absolutely the most plausible explanation. “I removed a board from a fireplace and felt a bit of a draught so I spoke to a schizophrenic about it.” Gruesome psychic footprint fo sho, makes far more sense than a half-awake dream or a trick of the light or a flatmate’s cat or someone’s mind otherwise playing silly buggers. Watertight reasoning, I’m convinced.

It’s easy to get spooked. It’s easy for your mind to start running away with itself, more so when you’re tired or otherwise influenced. It’s easy to pattern-match and to retroactively marry up experiences with memories, we’re naturally predisposed to it. Clear as day I remember pushing a pencil across the table with the power of my mind as a kid, anyone here think that actually happened? I don’t.

Of course they’re real, have you lot not watched Most Haunted?