Gaza

I’m saying the adverts for houses for sale is a false flag, they’ve not even invaded the area yet, let alone demilled it, bringing in the builders would be a long way away before the brochures are finished!

So let me get this right…… you don’t deny that Israeli settler-colonialists have the intention of illegally settling in occupied territories, as they very clearly have elsewhere, your “false flag” claim is now that they don’t have plans to build houses? 

The South Lebanon Settlement Movement is a political movement with a very clear political strategy, as indeed are all the settler-colonialists who currently have two members in the Israeli Cabinet.

Political pressure is what they are after, announcing their immediate intentions to start building in expanded northern boarders at the first opportunity is precisely the way to put pressure on both the Israeli government and wider Israeli society to make the occupation of Southern Lebanon permanent.

Here are more details from the respected UK based  New Arab :

Israeli settler group shares ad for properties in south Lebanon amid invasion threats

https://www.newarab.com/news/israeli-settler-group-shares-ad-properties-south-lebanon

does no good in this current climate, just websites and so on feeding off the whole nightmare going on in Lebanon, Gaza the West Bank and Israel.

So how does that remark fit in with Jewish newspapers/websites which are very clearly publicly announcing the intention of zionists to colonise Southern Lebanon ?

Well you’ve got to admit, if bad actors are spreading false stories about Israeli intentions to build settlements in Lebanon, they are at least plausible!!

Well, the whole sh!tshow has just taken an even darker tone, wtaf is going to happen now?

If we all get incinerated, can I just say it’s been great knowing you folks!

So let me get this right…… you don’t deny that Israeli settler-colonialists have the intention of illegally settling in occupied territories, as they very clearly have elsewhere, your “false flag” claim is now that they don’t have plans to build houses?

You’re basically just filling the thread with links to false information from weird websites, there’s enough verified news to keep up with, without adding all the crap.

Netanyahu doesn’t want all out war, he simply wants Israeli citizens to be safe from rocket attacks and Israeli kids to be able to attend a music festival without being kidnapped, raped and their bodies dragged through the streets in front of cheering crowds.

The region was on a reasonable path to a two state peace process until Iran intervened last October.

Iran is not a peaceable example of reasonable restraint, its actions were equivalent of an uneasy break up of a pub fight that might just allow everyone to get home in one piece ending when some drunk nutjob runs over and headbutts someone ensuring chaos. Iran has played that nutjob role for several generations and the local police and shops know the individual and mannerisms well by now. Unfortunately there will always be some well meaning charities and lawyers saying it’s because he had a bad childhood or just split up with his girlfriend, so it’s someone else’s fault he started this latest fight and the rest of the community should therefore cheer his violence on and give him a nice council house between the river and sea rather than locking him up.

wtaf is going to happen now?

they’ll wang a few missiles at each other and then go back to whatever it was they were doing before

I suspect the Ayatollah’s  holiday home  between the river and the sea is going to get turned to rubble in the next couple of weeks.

The only civilian suffering is on the Palestinian side, they are getting slaughtered and maimed by the tens of thousands.

So the 1,139 who got slaughtered less than a year ago don’t count plus missiles raining down on civilian in Israel as I write. No winners either side but at least some can acknowledge this.

It’s okay Guys, Robert Jenrick will press the nuke button to save us all

Well that was an experience.

Made a speedy exit from work and now currently bobbing around the Mediterranean wondering what comes next, but seen lots of videos of lots of missile hits in Israel, including Tel Aviv.

I can’t imagine this will go unanswered from Israel. I guess they now have all the casus belli they need to start rapidly disassembling various bits of Iranian infrastructure.

You’re basically just filling the thread with links to false information from weird websites, there’s enough verified news to keep up with, without adding all the crap.

Wow, the Jerusalem Post and the BBC are weird websites full of crap?

I guess that when the truth is too unpalatable you have got to either keep quiet or shout “fake news”, it’s the tried and trusted Donald Trump strategy. And your supporters will love it.

The apologists of the apartheid state and its senseless killing of 17,000 innocent children really are desperate.

So I take that you can’t answer this question:

So how does that remark fit in with Jewish newspapers/websites which are very clearly publicly announcing the intention of zionists to colonise Southern Lebanon ?

Cold war steve very on point

Ah **** it, usual forum crap….find it yourselves

So how does that remark fit in with Jewish newspapers/websites which are very clearly publicly announcing the intention of zionists to colonise Southern Lebanon ?

I’m sure British newspapers have over the years reported on the intentions of people like Tommy Robinson, Enoch Powell, Oswald Moseley, etc. and even interviewed some of their supporters/photographed them being pricks. It doesn’t mean they were a) sane or b) representitive of government policy or general public sentiment.

Stay safe Flying Ox

So the 1,139 who got slaughtered less than a year ago don’t count plus

No, not when the suggestion is made that  civilian suffering is the same for both sides, of course not.

It is truly absurd to make comparisons between the suffering of the people of Gaza and the suffering of the people of Israel.

I will stick to my original claim……the only civilian suffering is on the Palestinian side, they are getting slaughtered and maimed by the tens of thousands.

In the last 51 weeks 43,000 men, women , and children, have been killed by the IDF in Gaza due to the “war”, and nearly 700 in Occupied West Bank (there is no West Bank war) How many Israelis do think have died in the last 51 weeks? Whatever the unknown figure is I can guarantee that more will have died from road traffic accident.

That is why there is no urgency on the Israeli side for peace and why the majority of Israelis support the expansion of the war, despite western opposition.

I’m sure British newspapers have over the years reported on the intentions of people like Tommy Robinson, Enoch Powell, Oswald Moseley, etc. and even interviewed some of their supporters/photographed them being pricks. It doesn’t mean they were a) sane or b) representitive of government policy or general public sentiment.

So, to be clear, are you saying that establishing settlements on occupied land is not representative of Israeli government policy or public sentiment?

So the 1,139 who got slaughtered less than a year ago don’t count plus missiles raining down on civilian in Israel as I write. No winners either side but at least some can acknowledge this.

It’s kind of obscene to attempt to draw some kind of equivalence between the people killed on October 7 (many of them killed by Israeli fire, btw) and the 50,000 killed directly by Israel in Gaza, with plausible estimates (Lancet article I linked previously) of 4 times that number killed indirectly. Of course there are no winners, but losing means having to close down your business for a while on one side, and having your family blown to bits on the other.

It doesn’t mean they were a) sane or b) representitive of government policy or general public sentiment.

I fully agree that whatever plans the zionist extremists have to colonise Southern Lebanon it doesn’t mean that they necessarily have very widespread public support, no has suggested that they have.

In fact there is significant opposition within Israel to the extremist settler movement.

But that link to the BBC’s article (that weird website full of crap) makes it clear that they have seen proof that illegal settlers have the support and receive money from the Israeli government.

Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich and National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir have both long been involved in the extremist settler movement in the West Bank. 

Israeli ministers join gathering calling for resettlement of Gaza

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/29/israeli-ministers-join-gathering-calling-for-rebuilding-settlements-in-gaza

Interesting economic analysis from the Israeli Shir Hever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jdZHyp2e3U

It’s kind of obscene to attempt to draw some kind of equivalence between the people killed on October 7 (many of them killed by Israeli fire, btw) and the 50,000 killed directly by Israel in Gaza, with plausible estimates (Lancet article I linked previously) of 4 times that number killed indirectly. Of course there are no winners, but losing means having to close down your business for a while on one side, and having your family blown to bits on the other.

Wow.

I mean, Ernie and DrJ are just “whatabouting” the deaths of 1139 innocents now. I’ve yet to see anyone so keen to display their complete lack of shits given about Palestinian, Lebanese, Druze, etc. deaths.

Tells a story about your characters I think.

I mean, Ernie and DrJ are just “whatabouting” the deaths of 1139 innocents now. I’ve yet to see anyone so keen to display their complete lack of shits given about Palestinian, Lebanese, Druze, etc. deaths.

Tells a story about your characters I think.

You seem to be a bit confused. What has happened is that people have responded to the deaths of 50,000 Gazans by saying “what about 1139 killed on October 7”. Hopefully that clears things up for you, so you can edit out your ad hominem (again) and we can pretend it was a slip of the pen.

No slip of the pen. I think your opinion is disgusting.

obscene to attempt to draw some kind of equivalence between the people killed on October 7 (many of them killed by Israeli fire, btw) and the 50,000 killed directly by Israel in Gaza

It’s pretty much the textbook definition of whataboutism. “You can’t bring up x because y happened”. Retorting to an question over a pretty sick claim that the people who died in Israel last October 7th don’t count, don’t mean anything, are irrelevant.

many of them killed by Israeli fire, btw

Are you for real?

With Iran now attacking Israel this is going to kick off big style in the next 24 hours :o(

^ last 24hrs. ftfy.

hopefully.

I think your opinion is disgusting.

I am not sure that fits quite with Mark’s request to keep the language on this thread civil.

Are you trying to get the thread closed ?

Personally I am not hugely impressed by anyone who tries to make some sort of comparison between the devastation caused in Gaza in the last 51 weeks and the “devastation” caused to Israel.

I get the impression that very little value is attached to the 17,000 children who have been killed by the IDF, and the many who have been left blinded, without limbs, etc.

And if your claim ignorance of the Hannibal Directive is actually genuine I would suggest that you Google it.

You seem to be a bit confused. What has happened is that people have responded to the deaths of 50,000 Gazans by saying “what about 1139 killed on October 7”.

Re-read. Ernie stated that the only civilian suffering has been on the Palestinian side – a) categorically false whichever way you look at it, and b) utterly devoid of compassion. When asked whether the (actually) 1195 who died in Israel on October 7th at the hands of Hamas counted as civilian suffering, he then doubled down on only Palestinian civilians having suffered, and explicitly stated that the innocent civilians who were murdered on October 7th don’t count.

You then peeped out from behind Ernie’s legs and clumsily tried to make the argument that tonyf1 was drawing equivalence, which for everyone who can read is evidently not the case: he was questioning why 1195 innocents should be so obviously and deliberately omitted from Ernie’s count of civilian suffering.

Doesn’t seem like much confusion on my part.

@argee – the best to hope for is that the Iranian regime have rattled their sabre and placated their citizens who demanded action. The way in which the US telegraphed this air raid does appear to be a rerun of the attack a few months ago.

I don’t want the thread closed at all. I think it’s important people can come read people’s musings. Especially not particularly nice musings. It helps people judge character.

You then peeped out from behind Ernie’s legs

You are determined to ignore Mark’s request and take this thread down the road which will get it closed, aren’t you?

I of course didn’t claim that no Israelis died on Oct 7, you knew exactly what my point was…… that as the “war” has progressed the civilian suffering has all been on the Palestinian side, not the Israeli side. Your nitpicking smacks of desperation.

And certainly at least some of those who died in Israel on Oct 7 will have been killed by the IDF. Sometimes deliberately and sometimes accidentally. We will never know the total figure but that it happened is certain.

I am not sure if the [removed] will dismiss the respected Israeli newspaper, Haatetz as a weird newspaper full of crap but I invite you to read this:

IDF Ordered Hannibal Directive on October 7 to Prevent Hamas Taking Soldiers Captive

https://archive.li/2024.07.07-093306/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-07/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-ordered-hannibal-directive-on-october-7-to-prevent-hamas-taking-soldiers-captive/00000190-89a2-d776-a3b1-fdbe45520000

I of course didn’t claim that no Israelis died on Oct 7

Where did I say that you did?

You made the same mistake as DrJ – nowhere did equivalence come into tonyf1’s post. You’ve inferred that yourself, and made a pretty telling statement as a result.

You are determined to ignore Mark’s request and take this thread down the road which will get it closed, aren’t you?

Doing exactly the thing nickc called you out for in the other political thread.

I can’t imagine this will go unanswered from Israel. I guess they now have all the casus belli they need to start rapidly disassembling various bits of Iranian infrastructure.

I seem to recall the last time the Israelis faced a big barrage of missiles the defence systems worked and they (presumably persuaded by the US) let it ride. I hope that happens again.

Some on here need to be careful or the thread may have to take a holiday.

I don’t want the thread closed at all

So how about changing the language that you use?

I very much doubt that you feel stronger about the issue of Palestine-Israel than I do, but I am aware that I need to mind my language.

I’ll take the “sanctions” promised on page 1 if necessary. But if folk can go around freely dismissing dead partygoers and dead farm workers and families machine-gunned down while cowering in safe rooms, without reproach, then maybe the thread has run its course anyway.

You made the same mistake as DrJ

No mistake was made.

I will stick to my original claim……the only civilian suffering is on the Palestinian side, they are getting slaughtered and maimed by the tens of thousands.

It is frankly beyond belief that anyone should challenge that claim.

Doing exactly the thing nickc called you out for in the other political thread.

And you come along to add nothing useful to the discussion. What a surprise.

What have you got to say about Gaza? Mark didn’t start this thread as a vehicle for personal attacks on people.

It is frankly beyond belief that anyone should challenge that claim.

No one is denying the Palestinians are suffering horrendously.  It’s your dismissal of the deaths and suffering of the Israelis at the start of this nightmare that is causing the upset.

Some people need to read a bit of history, l would suggest starting somewhere about 1948 .
Or Google Balfour .. ….

It’s not even causing upset. We’ve been building up to it for 34 pages so it’s hardly a surprise. I just don’t think it should go unchallenged is all.