Forum House of Commons vote on air strikes in Syria – which way will you vote?

I’m not sure that qualifies as “thought”.

Nor a “logical conclusion”.

The problem with absolute pacifism, is that everyone has to subscribe to it for it to work absolutely.

Eventually it will lead to foot soldiers fighting IS.

Bombing will kill innocent men, women and children and won’t solve the issue.

Also very interesting that the term Daesh is now being used by everyone, except Corbyn. Daesh being the derogatory term most in the Middle East use to describe IS

I know this adds nothing to the debate, but all this “Daesh” stuff is nonsense. It’s just “ISIS” in their own language. Claiming that us calling them Daesh is insulting is on a par with us suddenly getting all stabby if the French decided to call us* “the English” rather than “l’Anglais”.

*apologies to any non-English folk.

How many SAS/SBS/Special forces personnel does the british army have?

I think it’s only 240 ish (could be wrong), not a great deal but i guess they are quite effective in targeting.

SAS/SBS* 400-500 in each

* Part of Navy

@jimjam – the recent proposal in the spending statement is that we should have more

@kona strange bedfellows Jezza and I indeed, I won’t let it happen again 😳

It’s great isn’t it how Cameron’s statement has been twisted, he said those voting no would walking through the lobby with those who do with terrorist sympathisers. He didn’t call them sympathisers themselves. He also said this to a Tory meeting. Toys out of the pram indignation from some of those voting no. Cameron IMO knew he’d win the vote easily and that the terrorist sympathisers remark wouldn’t cost him anything.

I personally do not think there are 75,000 moderate troops in Syria, the key word is moderate. They are not moderate by our liberal western standards in any way shape or form in my view.

Sky News calling the vote very clearly yes, 120+ (?) majority with 50 Labour MPs voting Yes.

I personally do not think there are 75,000 moderate troops in Syria, the key word is moderate. They are not moderate by our liberal western standards in any way shape or form in my view.

So you think that if ISIS do withdraw from territory they currently hold the vacuum will be filled by another 75,000 extremists.

What an excellent plan – what could possibly go wrong? No wonder you are fully backing Cameron.

Cameron IMO knew he’d win the vote easily and that the terrorist sympathisers remark wouldn’t cost him anything.

Apart from a poll in the Times suggests that many of the public would fit his description, along with a YouGov poll suggesting that 31% don’t support bombing, on;y 49% support the bombing down from 59% a week ago.

embarrassing thing to say for a sitting PM.

It’s great isn’t it how Cameron’s statement has been twisted, he said those voting no would walking through the lobby with those who do with terrorist sympathisers.

Yes there is a certain irony that his distortion of the truth was distorted. There is a certain irony that you misquoted what he was meant to have said as well*. It not ironic that you only object to one part of that lie

Toys out of the pram indignation from some of those voting no.

TBH i tired of the way you lambasted all those yes voting labour MPS when they spoke out about Corbyn so I applaud your even handed approach to all this and not using the events to just ram home your own personal political agenda. Its rare to see principles in politics

Cameron IMO knew he’d win the vote easily and that the terrorist sympathisers remark wouldn’t cost him anything.

Its really not a dignified thing for a PM to have said whatever the hue of his party and I can only imagine your rage if Corbyn had said something as clumsy and unbecoming.

*walk through the lobbies with Jeremy Corbyn and a bunch of terrorist sympathisers”

Hard to tell who he was calling names but he certainly seems to be implying that some of those who oppose the war are terrorist sympathisers and that is, and no one has argued otherwise not even Davem Just BS

It’s great isn’t it how Cameron’s statement has been twisted, he said those voting no would walking through the lobby with those who do with terrorist sympathisers. He didn’t call them sympathisers themselves.

The only person who is trying to twist things is you jambalaya.

According to the Daily Telegraph this was Camerons precise words :

“You don’t want to walk through the lobbies with Jeremy Corbyn and a bunch of terrorist sympathisers.”

It is crystal clear that he accusing Jeremy Corbyn and the MPs who support him of being terrorist sympathisers. It is also crystal clear that that sort of highly offensive slur is unbefitting from a Prime Minister and that he should apologise.

Of course he won’t which is excellent news for Corbyn – it shines a light on the real Cameron.

Gandhi’s comments that the Jews should walk willingly to the gas chambers

He didn’t say that.

Aren’t some of the Labour front bench on the record sypathysing with terrorists?

What about SOE? Don’t the people voting no sympathise with SOE’s efforts in WW2?

What about SOE? Don’t the people voting no sympathise with SOE’s efforts in WW2?

Only the terrorist sympathisers.

konabunny – Member

Gandhi’s comments that the Jews should walk willingly to the gas chambers

He didn’t say that. [/quote]

I wasn’t trying to start a debate about the philosophical concepts of pacifism, rather to simply say that some people take a very dim view of it as an outlook/standpoint.

If Gandhi didn’t say that I’d like to know what he did say though as it’s something I’ve heard attributed to him many times.

binners – Member

Ooooooooo – can we start talking about missile systems again……

You mean S-300 … aaaaahhhh …

Think mine is bigger than yours.

If Gandhi didn’t say that I’d like to know what he did say though as it’s something I’ve heard attributed to him many times

As I’ve been told many times Frank Sinatra said:

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

If Gandhi didn’t say that I’d like to know what he did say though

Well what he did say, iirc, was that he thought that Western civilisation would be “a good idea”.
Cheeky git.

I’d like to know what he did say though

Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher’s knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs… It would have aroused the world and the people of Germany… As it is they succumbed anyway in their millions.”

And largely it’s misquoted as Gandhi still believed that pacifism was powerful, as demonstrating that rather than succumbing to punishment because it’s their right. You do it willing because it is wrong, and should be seen as wrong.

Hitler killed five million Jews.

I think Super Great Dear Leader with the little Red Book set the record for culling human population.

Estimated at between 40 million to 70 million …

The Independent

Of course he won’t which is excellent news for Corbyn – it shines a light on the real Cameron.

a) Cameron won’t be fighting the 2020 election as leader and b) Labour are after SNP/Green/Non voters, not Tories and centrists. So landing points on Tories doesn’t help him much.

Our pig-**** PM says something pretty unbecoming for which he should apologise (but we know he doesn’t do apologies) and that becomes Corbyn trying to land punches on the Tories. 😆

Gandhi’s comments that the Jews should walk willingly to the gas chambers

I thought he did say something quite like that

As usual, context matters – my understanding is that he said that, as they were going to be killed anyway, they should commit suicide as that would better draw the world’s attention to their plight

🙁

deadlydarcy – Member

Our pig-**** PM says something pretty unbecoming for which he should apologise (but we know he doesn’t do apologies) and that becomes Corbyn trying to land punches on the Tories.

You mean ‘terrorist sympathisers’?

Is being called ‘terrorist sympathisers’ that crucial in this debate?

Why do you think he used the term ‘terrorist sympathisers’?

Is he point scoring when he referred to those opposing him in this debate as ‘terrorist sympathisers’?

Does that mean the current debate, due to being called ‘terrorist sympathisers’ , mean the whole debate now revolved around or being hijacked by the definition of ‘terrorist sympathisers’ ?
😯

Refreshing to see Saudi Arabia being associated with ISIS multiple times on ch4 news tonight.

“Of course he won’t which is excellent news for Corbyn – it shines a light on the real Cameron.”

………. So landing points on Tories doesn’t help him much.

Well that’s a novel idea…….the suggestion that a Tory leader making a prat of himself doesn’t help the Labour Party.

Refreshing indeed jimjam…as long as it’s just a bit of noise and doesn’t interfere with…y’know…business.

deadlydarcy – Member
Refreshing indeed jimjam…as long as it’s just a bit of noise and doesn’t interfere with…y’know…business.

Hence, you cannot be a politician or diplomat. 🙄

Well that’s a novel idea…….the suggestion that a Tory leader making a prat of himself doesn’t help the Labour Party.

It doesn’t, or not directly, they’re each after completely different voters. Corbyn is after SNP/Green/Non-voters. Tories are after Tories, centrists and floating voters.

Refreshing to see Saudi Arabia being associated with ISIS multiple times on ch4 news tonight.

Really? That is good news, I despair for humanity a little less.

Thank dog god

after different voters

I call bullshit.

For example; say I’m a ‘centrist’, who believed the bollocks spouted by the tabloids, and has been horrified by the prospect of having to vote Tory or ‘waste’ a vote on the lib dems because my party has gone all Trotsky. Is it not conceivable that I could start to feel that actually now I’ve heard Corbyn on the old Jeremy Vime show and he sounded like he made a lot of sense, AND THEN that old Etonian pillock whom I’d never trusted anyway basically tells me that I love ISIS because I have doubts about this crap kneejerk response to Paris, means that I’m going to look into what this Corbyn chap ACTUALLY has to say rather than the misquoted sound bites atributed to him by the establishment press. Shock horror, I’m a Corbyn fan now.

x several thousand. Maybe.

It’s possible.

they’re each after completely different voters

I call bullshit.

About the only thing that is clear in the world of Labour is which voters they are after. It aint Tories. Equally, I can’t see hard core Corbynites voting Tory.

But we’ll see.

Verdict is in on 1st round of voting

MPs reject amendment blocking airstrikes against IS in Syria by 390 votes to 211~ 179 majority in favour of airstrikes[/url]

MPs will now vote on the motion backing airstrikes targeting the terror group in Syria.

The UK government wins the vote backing airstrikes in Syria by 397 votes to 223 – a majority of 174.

We’ll have to gauge public reaction over the coming days and weeks

.

what was the STW verdict – i dont have time to skim the last 10 pages

and apart from just quoting pointless guff, did anyone else even read the select committee paper, nevermind any other evidence, not sure some of todays speakers had.

So there you have it, the government is going to bomb Syria 🙁

Toyota shares will be on the rise, along with Hilux production.

Oh,I feel so much safer now.

Well we can all rest easy knowing that Renton is on his way to sort shit out!