Formula 1 2024 – WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS

I fail to see what benefit that would bring

Dunno – as well as front to back driver controlled brake balance changes, perhaps left to right balance changes as well? Helpful on twisty circuits to pull the car into corners?

Or steering activated? The more lock you put on the more braking goes to that side of the car?

Would that allow a car to be dragged round a corner if the inside wheels get more braking force than the outer? Means you areias reliant on downforce to get round.

McLaren ran Brake steer in 1997, which was banned. They had an extra brake pedal. It worked for them iirc.

I suppose you could have the car automatically change brake bias across an axle with steering  and suspension input, say as it’s riding the curb.

Or to stop the front inside wheel locking in low speed corners as the car pitches to the outside and unweights the inside wheel.

I fail to see what benefit that would bring

If you could set up a system to brake either just on the right or left you could in theory use it to counteract understeer rather than load up the front wing. So run a shallower aero solution for more speed, use the brakes to give you back the advantage in the corner, use the throttle as per normal to stop the car from slowing down too much.

Sounds kinda familiar…

https://www.thedrive.com/news/how-bmws-genius-pendulum-brake-system-beat-an-abs-ban-in-racing

So driver adjusted same axle brake bias was banned possibly leaving open suspension/aero adjusted bias. I’d have thought steering adjusted came under driver input? Dunno, maybe as a wheel unweighted the valve adjusted. Although that sounds a bit like a very crude ABS.

edit:- that pendulum brake in the link is cool. Hadn’t heard of that.

If you could set up a system to brake either just on the right or left you could in theory use it to counteract understeer rather than load up the front wing.

But the restriction is on the same brake disk. What they seem to mean is that the inner and out brake pistons must be the same size.

the forces applied to the brake pads are the same magnitude and act as opposing pairs on a given brake disc

Explain to me how different sized brake pistons acting on the same disk will counter understeer.

Except the new part to the regulations says:

“Any system or mechanism which can produce systematically or intentionally, asymmetric braking torques for a given axle is forbidden.”

So potentially maybe a team had found a way to create asymmetric braking torques across an axle

Adjustable bias across the car has been forbidden since McLaren did it, it was claimed to be a form of four-wheel steering.

The critical thing here is that they are talking about differential forces acting on the same brake disk, i.e. one pad exerting more force than the opposing pad. I don’t see what benefit that would have.

What they seem to mean is that the inner and out brake pistons must be the same size.

Not quite: it says they need to apply the same force. If you have a vanilla hydraulic system then that means different sized pistons, but it would be more interesting if you could deliver different pressure to each piston in response to steering angle.

I don’t know enough about the technical regs to know what would previously have been feasible, but if the calipers are appropriately positioned then you could generate moments around the steering axis by manipulating the relative forces at the piston.

At worst I guess it would help marginally with temperature management by backing off the force on one side of the disc if it became hotter than the other.

But I’m guessing it’s been used to allow the brakes to be dragged a little on turn-in, either to shorten the barking distance or to get sharper turn-in without having to use things like camber which would affect tyre management.

Isn’t turn-in one of the things Verstappen’s been struggling with in the last couple of races?

Isn’t turn-in one of the things Verstappen’s been struggling with in the last couple of races?

It’s inherent in the new aero regs. The position of the venturi throat is prescribed so the aero balance of the car is constrained by that. They need to use the front and rear wings to adjust the aero balance, but the front wing has a ground effect and front downforce increases as the wing gets closer to the ground at high speed. So, at high speed the car oversteers and low speed it understeers, which makes them difficult to drive. Merc and McLaren seem to have found a solution (maybe flexi wings?), but Red Bull seem to have some fundamental problems with how the aero and suspension interact.

thols2

Full Member
Adjustable bias across the car has been forbidden since McLaren did it, it was claimed to be a form of four-wheel steering.

The critical thing here is that they are talking about differential forces acting on the same brake disk, i.e. one pad exerting more force than the opposing pad. I don’t see what benefit that would have.

This clarification is quite specifically talking about “asymmetric braking torques for a given axle“.

I couldn’t be bothered to look up the tech regs again, but it could be that the Mclaren ‘brake steer’ rule wording is something like “equal braking pressure must be applied to each calliper for a given axle”.  Therefore a system which prevents one pad extending could legally be used.  I.e. perhaps you could have equal pressure acting at the calliper, but only a single pad extends, therefore reduced braking force.

Clarifications aren’t added for no reason,  either a team has this and the FIA don’t like it, or a team has an idea and wants to try it, or a team suspects somebody else has it.

Red Bull’s unusual retirement with brake failure the other week is now also rather interesting…

I.e. perhaps you could have equal pressure acting at the calliper, but only a single pad extends, therefore reduced braking force.

Yep thats how I’m interpreting it.  On the outside wheel if only one pad is acting on the brake disc therefor less brake force you get some sort of 4 wheel steer assistance.

Other thing I could think of is does a reduced or increased force on the brake disc effect the suspension movement?  Could a reduced brake force on the outside wheel lead to the suspension compressing less?  Or increased force on the inside cause the suspension to compress more? Both acting to keep the underbody of the car flatter meaning the floor works more efficiently?

This isn’t about a braking differential between the two sides of the car, though. (Which AFAIK has been illegal since McLaren’s brake steer system.) This is about a differential between the two pads either side of a single disc.

Re-reading the wording, though, I think my previous thoughts were misplaced in a couple of respects.

Doohan signed to Alpine according to mestmotor.se  (not official yet though)

Some Italian magazine (autosprint?) claims Newey has signed for Aston Martin.  Also claims Stroll is trying to sign Verstappen.

No logic to it, but there’s no team I’d rather see fail than Aston…Lawrence Stroll and his son, and Alonso.  Then replace Alonso with Max…..awful combination

Seen those rumours too – I can see Newey at Aston as he has links with them already. It’s a team he could mould too, unlike Ferrari who are well, Ferrari!

Max would surely laugh at them though! He’d wait at least for 2 years after Newey has been there.

Mercedes is the solid option for him from 2026. Red Bill seems toxic and their engine could be great or could be shite.

In more interesting news have you heard the one about Mazepin to Alpine!!! 🙂

Re the braking forces.

I’ve no idea if someone has already tried it or just a clarification, but in the age of KERS, not all braking forces are from the caliper.

I suspect you could have equal hydraulic pressure on L & R calipers, but the KERS regen biasing the overall braking force to one side.

F1 brains are better than mine, so I’m sure someone has already been trying KERS brake bias.

In more interesting news have you heard the one about Mazepin to Alpine!!! 🙂

I did see that…surely even Alpine aren’t that desperate!

The extended rumour is that Flavio is putting a deal together to sell the team(or part of) to Hitech Racing – hence the new boss who has links to the Mazepin family.

It’s the sort of depraved deal Flavio excels at.

Nikita Mazepin linked with shock F1 return amid Alpine merge rumours

And F1 say Andretti would be bad for the sport!!!

Does Newey still like a say in driver selection? That certainly wouldn’t work out at AM with seat-for-life boy there

I’ve no idea if someone has already tried it or just a clarification, but in the age of KERS, not all braking forces are from the caliper.

I suspect you could have equal hydraulic pressure on L & R calipers, but the KERS regen biasing the overall braking force to one side.

I think it could be done through the differential. As I understand it, the cars use clutch packs to tune the diff – under power in a straight line, they want the diff fully locked but it needs to be unlocked to stop the car understeering in slow corners. I’m sure it would be possible to design a diff that allows the KERS braking to be adjusted side to side. Whether it would be legal is another question. It’s such an obvious thing that it’s guaranteed that every team will have looked at it and already be doing anything that they are legally allowed to do.

Does Newey still like a say in driver selection? That certainly wouldn’t work out at AM with seat-for-life boy there

I think Stroll is underrated by his critics. Yes, he’s only in F1 because his dad is rich but he’s a decent driver. Having him as a number 2 to a superstar teammate shouldn’t be a problem for a designer who’s happy having Perez as a teammate to Verstappen.

Gary Anderson has an article on F1 diffs.

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/how-f1-differentials-work

Having him as a number 2 to a superstar teammate shouldn’t be a problem for a designer who’s happy having Perez as a teammate to Verstappen.

Big assumption that he is happy with Perez.

Agreed that Lance is fine for a mid-field team, that’s why I only mentioned the apparent seat for life situation

African Grand Prix: Rwanda to host F1’s return to Africa?

…spending the UK governments money on something useful then!!! 🙂

Seems totally in line with F1 being hosted in countries being run as one party state-autocracies that need a bit of a sports wash.

BREAKING: Red Bull release statement on Christian Horner investigation after appeal process concludes

Red Bull uphold result of investigation into Horner

I’m shocked! shocked, I tell you

Not read it, but did they mention any findings about the Pope’s religion or what bears get up to in the woods?

Doesn’t matter, cos the way things are going, Horner will be there on his own soon.

…with Checo and Tsunoda as his drivers!!! 🙂

While were on the Red Bull subject Marko has basically said Lawson and Hadjar will have seats in F1 next season.

So who’s going where? I can see Lawson being dropped straight into Red Bull.

I think Danny Ric will be gone.

Tho there’s a seat going at Audi…

Yep – I think Danny Ric will be gone too.

His career with a top team was effectively over when he ran scared of Max and left Red Bull the first time.

Bottas seems to be favourite now to stay with Audi. May as well have some continuity as they seem short of that!

A few pundits have been saying that Bottas would be a good number 2 for Red Bull. He’s quick, and doesn’t rock the boat.

I’d like to see him with a decent drive. Not sure RB would appreciate his videos tho

In case you were wondering where all those cool looking clips were from

Nah I reckon Bottas will end up at Audi….unless they go for Schumacher

There were some photos of him doing rounds earlier, he had a R8 with a little 77 on the side