Formula 1 2024 – WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS

To be fair I think if and when Ferrari, Merc and McLaren can fix their issues and bring useful updates, they’ll be in the mix with Perez.

Exactly. Merc are saying that their cooling issues cost them half a second per lap. If that’s the case, then that would put Merc close enough to Red Bull that they could be ahead at some tracks and could be ahead after a successful update of the car. It’s just too early to know.

Nah.  Max and Checo pulled away and then simply slowed down once they were comfortable and clear.  Had they been in any way pressed by another car, they’d simply have driven faster.  They don’t need to, they won’t need to.  If all Merc can offer is to match the RB coasting time, it’s all over for this year unless someone pulls a developmental rabbit out of  their hat during the first round of upgrades.

it would be easy to detect and would incur extremely harsh penalties.

The cost cap cheating was easily detected and the penalty was negligible. If there was a benefit to it, they’d do it and mop up the consequences later.

It’s not like it would spoil their clean cut image.

Had they been in any way pressed by another car, they’d simply have driven faster.

eg Max’s fastest lap time being done on softs that they then managed to last as well as the others on hards.

https://x.com/fastestpitstop/status/1764332084187832608?s=46&t=EQoHg-RGok071Fjc15ZHKw

Max to Mercedes next year?!

FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem asked Max Verstappen in Bahrain if he would publicly back Christian Horner

Allegedly, Max refused.

…that’s the latest rumour! Toto was seen in discusion with Jos yesterday.

Red Bull have got to really, really love Horner if they keep him over Max.

Seems that blood is thicker than water….   This is turning into a right pickle.  There must be various factions thinking it’d be better if Horner took an indefinite break from the sport.

The engineer/ideas swap needn’t mean taking stuff that works between teams. It can be saving time and money by not trying stuff that doesn’t work.

If RB decide there are options A, B, C & D for a particular design choice and test all four to discover that A, B & C don’t the expected benefit but they spend £X and Y hours on each to discover this. The engineer wanders into Red Bull and says ‘lets try idea D, we need to design it from scratch’ . This save Red Bull 3 lots of £X and Y Hours on bad ideas and means they can start on the best option, even though they are starting from scratch.

This might be handy if a team had a limit on the amount of time they had in the wind tunnel and sandwich allowance.

According to #BusinessF1

Red Bull CEO Oliver Mintzlaff decided to terminate Christian Horner and an official Press release was even ready.

The Austrian parent company had planned to allow Horner to leave without losing face.

But Horner did not want to accept the dismissal and now called in his lawyers, who intervened at Red Bull in Austria. Horner insisted on an arbitration clause in his contract, which gives him the right to an independent investigation in the event of such allegations.

From Twitter….sorry, still can’t do quote thing anymore

And there it is… Jos’s play, Max to Merc

Threatening that as leverage to get Horner out.

I was about to suggest that was where it was going earlier this morning but had stuff to do!

The problem with getting rid of Horner is twofold, the obvious one is the total chaos that any new boss will bring, they will all want to put their mates in key positions, and secondly there will be a rush for the door following Horner out.

WorldClassAccident

Free Member

The engineer/ideas swap needn’t mean taking stuff that works between teams. It can be saving time and money by not trying stuff that doesn’t work

Yes, exactly! Thank you

The problem with getting rid of Horner is twofold, the obvious one is the total chaos that any new boss will bring,

Bring f++king Guenther back to F1 and make it interesting 😄

The problem with getting rid of Horner is that any allegations would have to be proven. As yet, we don’t even know if that’s been done/possible. Can you imagine how much it would cost RB in the event he sued them?

Can you imagine how much it would cost RB in the event he sued them?

I’m sure they’ve got some boffins working out that vs losing verstappen

I was reading something a few months back (can’t remember where) to the effect that Horner and Newey both have “co-existance” clauses in their contracts. I’m not sure what the purpose of these clauses are, but got the impression that they, sorta, tied Horner and Newey together in F1…which would provide a lot of leverage for Horner and a lot of risk for Red Bull HQ.

Anyone know anything about this, or am I imagining it?

I’m not sure they are tied to one another – just that they have clauses that if one leaves the other can with no exit penanlty.

I can’t imagine they come as a pair.

So if Horner left, Newey could leave and follow him but doesn’t have to.

BBC News – Christian Horner: Jos Verstappen says controversy ‘driving team apart’

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68461379

Front page news on the BBC

Apparently there’s been a fall out between Horner and Helmut Marko, as well as between the Thai and Austrian owners of Red Bull. It will be interesting to know the details, once it is all done.

There must be another layer to the onion here if the Verstappens are threatening to leave if Horner stays. I can’t imagine Jos at least would stick a enough of a flag in the moral high ground to walk away from the most dominant car the formula’s ever seen.

I was reading something a few months back (can’t remember where) to the effect that Horner and Newey both have “co-existance” clauses in their contracts

Joe Saward said a few weeks back that it is “believed” that Horner and Newey have those clauses in their contracts. Whether Newey would follow Horner is another question though, he’s not young enough that he would want to walk away from the team he built and start again.

Red Bull have got to really, really love Horner if they keep him over Max.

But where would he go? Horner and max aren’t the people who make the car. Could max in a Ferrari or a Mercedes beat Perez or Ricciardo in a red bull?

If this were a play my guess would be that Jos, or someone he’s close to wants horner’s  job. Even though, it would be a brave bluff to suggest you’d give up the fastest car if there wasn’t a management change.

“If this were a play my guess would be that Jos, or someone he’s close to wants horner’s  job. “

Helmut Marko?

I remember mentioning that I wondered if the death of Dietrich Mateschitz would be the end of Torro Rosso/RB/VCARB. The power struggle now looks more like it could rip the whole thing to pieces if someone doesn’t get a hold of it

Thing is; I think that Jos’ comments;

“It cannot continue this way, The situation is not good for the team and is driving people apart.”

Are pretty much right*, It can’t continue.  I’d have thought there’s now folks at RB who have a completely different opinion of the boss, and its just a matter of time before either RB self destructs or Horner goes.

*never thought I’d agree with Jos about anything!

Captions please!… 🙂

Jeez, that’s a pretty spicy look eh

does anyone actually know what the original falling out with Jos was? I mean max has been clear no1, the car is fast, wtf more does he want!?

There’s a bit of history here – need to translate the page and it reads a bit funny, but it makes sense!

https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel-1/news/wer-letzte-nacht-am-schlechtesten-geschlafen-hat-christian-horner-24030303

 wtf more does he want!?

Absolute control of the team that employs his son. Why employ (read; pay) some-one else to do that job, when you can have control over all of it.

https://x.com/GrandPrixDiary/status/1764579781109076190?t=w12_HL1Yg0GlYyyOx7K52w&s=09

Not sure this will work…

does anyone actually know what the original falling out with Jos was?

My guess is that it’s been simmering for a long time – Max disobeyed team orders to let Perez through in Brazil, maybe in retaliation for Perez crashing in Monaco qualifying. I don’t think Max has the personality to let things go and move on, and Jos is even worse. There was also the Nelson Piquet racism scandal – Max is dating Kelly Piquet so Horner saying that Nelson wasn’t welcome around the Red Bull team may have annoyed the Verstappens. That’s obviously speculation, but I doubt that it was just one thing, more likely just something that’s been smouldering away for months or years.

Thing is, I’m sure Merc would love to sign Max as a driver, but they won’t want Jos hanging around causing friction. If Merc did sign him, I can’t see Merc giving him as much leeway as Red Bull did. Ferrari don’t have an open seat and I can’t see him going to McLaren or Aston Martin. Audi would be a big gamble and none of the other teams look like they will be contenders anytime soon. Jos may have overplayed his hand here.

ESPN says Jos Verstappen will not attend Jeddah because of his comments against Horner.. ? pic.twitter.com/H3roHaPmUP

— Verstappen News (@verstappenews) March 4, 2024

does anyone actually know what the original falling out with Jos was?

I think it was Marko that forced Horner to give Verstappen a go in the car all those years ago, Horner wasn’t sold on him as a very young driver, and I think it’s caused tension ever since. Plus Horner wants what’s best for the team – I don’t think he’d care is Perez (or who-ever) took the championship; whereas Jos wants his son to be the focus of that (obviously) I think that causes some issues.

Sorry for interrupting the Horny Horner discussion, but just came across this on twitter.

Take a moment to enjoy this nearly perfect lap by Bobby K at Suzuka

ps. keep an eye on his left hand! 👀

2010 Japanese GP – Kubica's best ever lap.
No mistakes, no corrections, just the perfect lappic.twitter.com/myM5IIGfjy

— mora | DP28 (@_moraa17) March 3, 2024

I think I remember hearing that there has been some friction previously with the Verstappens about not prioritising Max enough at Checo’s expense, so the above comments might be spot on

keep an eye on his left hand!

The F Duct?

I get the feeling that Jos has overplayed his hand.  I for one will be very glad if he becomes persona no grata in F1 from now on.

Extract from his Wiki entry:-

After a 1998 incident at a karting track in which a man suffered a fractured skull, Verstappen and his father, Frans, were found guilty in court of assault but were each given a five-year suspended jail sentence after reaching an out-of-court settlement with the victim.[34]

In December 2008, with the couple effectively separated, Verstappen appeared in court in Tongeren, Belgium, charged with assaulting his wife, Sophie Kumpen.[35] He was found not guilty of assault, but guilty of threatening Kumpen in text messages and of violating a previously issued restraining order. He was fined and sentenced to three months probational, suspended prison sentence.[36]

On 29 November 2011, the media reported allegations that Verstappen had assaulted his ex-girlfriend; Verstappen claimed to only have had a discussion with her.[37] In January 2012, he was arrested on attempted murder charges following accusations that he drove a car into his ex-girlfriend in Roermond,[38] but released two weeks later after the charge was withdrawn.[39]

A truly horrid individual.

slowoldman

The F Duct?

Exactly, the stones on the guy to be going through 130R etc with one hand on the wheel and the rear wing stalled!

One handed you say – most of a lap used to be one handed!… 🙂