Female Dr Who robs boys of role models

Have you considered that you are starting with the belief that racism is everywhere and then interpreting everything based upon that belief?

My point is that correlation does not (necessarily) equal causation.

You’ve read that headline and concluded that white kids are being held back because they’re white. That might be true, it might not. You need to dig a bit deeper to find out why (and indeed that’s exactly what they’re doing) rather than jumping to conclusions that fit with your narrative. That’s why said “maybe” in reply to your absolute, I’ve no idea why it’s happing.

I posted a link showing that poor white boys are significantly less likely to go to university (and therefore escape poverty

Did you read the interview with the pupil further down where he said basically what I did, there’s a feeling that they don’t to bother because they’ll just walk into a job anyway?

Unbelievable ignorance and bigotry. For shame.

Oh jog on. Two-week old account I see, who were you banned as last time?

I posted a link showing that poor white boys are significantly less likely to go to university (and therefore escape poverty with a well paying job) than those of almost any other ethnicity

And what is your assessment/conclusion? ie what did you do with that data?

I don’t think they are – from what I read this morning its the fault of the French and our plucky government is doing everything it can.

Or they are using that line to distract the people struggling as a result of all their other policies……….

I suppose it’s time for this again.

Just to return to the original point of the thread briefly….

What these young lads need isn’t a male Dr Who or Ghostbuster – it’s real live positive male role models, through families, through childrens centres and youth groups, through schools and outreach programmes, through the Police and justice system. All those things that Tory austerity cut back or undermined, grinding them further down into the dust, leaving gaps that the voluntary sector struggles to fill.

So before this Tory git – and any of his apologists – open their mouths, they need to remember “Before You Complain – Have You Volunteered?”

Any kid who has Dr Who as role model need to have a word with themselves! 😉

It was rubbish in it’s inception and it’s rubbish now….the only saving grace is that the current one is easy on the eye whereas Tom Baker wasn’t! 🙂

Tom Baker is a looker in his own way. It’s all in the eyes.

Its is true that boys from poor backgrounds, including whites, typically have worse prospects than girls from similar backgrounds. And it is worth trying to identify the root cause and address it.

On the one hand we have a government that has imposed swingeing cuts on local authorities that have resulted in massive cut backs to youth services, closures of Sure Start centre, closure of libraries and even resulted in some schools having to sell of playgrounds and sports fields.

On the other hand Dr Who is a woman.

Growing up in the 60s watching it in black and white the Dr Who role model was a pompous old fool. That MP might have a point if he watched it back then.

If you think white males are persecuted try being black or Asian, trans or gay, female, disabled etc.

There is nothing about being white and male that holds you back in life.

Cougar
Did you read the interview with the pupil further down where he said basically what I did, there’s a feeling that they don’t to bother because they’ll just walk into a job anyway?

Yes I did, and no it did not say “basically what you said”.

Read between the lines – he’s not saying “i’m not going to bother doing my homework cos dad will get me a job at Deloitte or KPMG”, quite the opposite, no matter how hard he works, those career paths are not for people “like him“.

Why I stopped watching Doctor Who and turned to a life of crime, by Prisoner HU6692378

people “like him“

He doesn’t mean there are no men in those roles. He doesn’t mean there are no white people in those roles.

Yes I did, and no it did not say “basically what you said”.

Well, one of us is misreading it. “Not for me” is referring to education, not career paths. What’s the point in exams when I can just get a job with my dad?

Maybe (NB I said “maybe”) there’s a greater desire amongst black &c families for the kids to better themselves? Maybe crossing the channel in a dinghy to start a better life gives you a bit more drive than being dragged up on a council estate.

Hell, maybe it’s just optimism. The ethnic kids believe things can be better, the white kids are resigned to the idea that it’ll always be shit for them?

Maybe we’re more interested in going to uni to get laid and wasted. Maybe we’re just lazy bastards. Who knows.

I wouldn’t describe him as “of the Left”. You might I suppose.

A Republican might very well do so…

I failed my 11+, so was denied the opportunity to go to grammar school, and then university.

But, you know what? I’m not entirely sure that going to university would have gained me anything, I’ve had a number of fairly well paid jobs, and I’m perfectly aware of my own limits – jobs paying substantially more would require levels of responsibility that I’m just not comfortable with, or feel I’m actually capable of doing well. I see the sort of stress that results, and I know that’s just not for me.

Other people are very likely to be different.

Maybe we’re just lazy bastards. Who knows.

Anecdotally, I’ve probably temp employed over 50 blokes from various backgrounds including a bunch of Eastern Europeans (hardest working, but prone to the odd cock up) over the past 6-7 years.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt, the laziest and least reliable was a black guy . Absolute nightmare in every aspect, from bringing personal issues to work – he just didn’t want to work, even though he was getting a reasonable wage of £180 a day

Probably just a co-incidence and he could have been an unlucky appointment regardless of his ethnicity. I still wouldn’t select/not select anyone based on the colour of their skin though, that’s ridiculous – albeit, I would imagine many on here would believe that would be the case with me. Show me you can do the job and you’ll get the job

Cougar

Well, one of us is misreading it. “Not for me” is referring to education, not career paths. What’s the point in exams when I can just get a job with my dad?

Yes I should have said higher education in that post but it’s the same difference in this context- university provides a good career, a good career provides a means of social mobility.

This brings me back to the original comment that I objected to (and I apologise for getting cross on that post, but it is a subject close to my heart).

“they’re highly unlikely to be in poverty because they are white.”

Go here and at the very least watch the two linked videos, which illustrate this very concisely, the statistics are stark:
https://ukparliament.shorthandstories.com/disadvantaged-white-working-class-pupils-/index.html

Anecdotally, I’ve probably temp employed over 50 blokes from various backgrounds including a bunch of Eastern Europeans (hardest working, but prone to the odd cock up) over the past 6-7 years.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt, the laziest and least reliable was a black guy .

His ‘background’ was ‘black’?

@multi21

“they’re highly unlikely to be in poverty because they are white.”

Go here and at the very least watch the two linked videos, which illustrate this very concisely, the statistics are stark:

I’ll watch it, but could you summarise the key points of their whiteness that you feel makes the difference

(as opposed to their location and/or their economic/and or class/cultural disadvantages?)

ie if you could just briefly detail the ‘white’ parts of their disadvantage?

@multi21

no matter how hard he works, those career paths are not for people “like him“.

Writing as a man who was a boy from a multi-generational working class background this rings a bell so loudly that it deafens my other thoughts. The ‘path’ of being a scientist or doctor or even an engineer was just crazy talk in the school/estates where I grew up, socialised, spent my formative years.

When you left state school you went to a factory or else walked into a job via a relative or else signed on/YTS.

Job done. ‘Higher learning’ was ‘above station’ (“ who does he think he is?”) and treated with suspicious (even as ‘traitorous’)

I was somewhat of a traitor, it turned out. But I had a wild-card role-model in a rural yet Europhile grandfather who was not typical in his views towards foreigners (or towards Brits).

As a kid I was fully exhorted to believe that my ethnicity had something to do with it, inasmuch as ‘ethnicity’ is both cultural (in my case working-class) and racial. For us that was a deep, accepted cultural norm of white British entitlement, and one that went hand-in-glove with suspicion towards non-whites.

My culture allotted a status to non-whites/foreigners. The status was measured along a spectrum/stereotype.

We held other white Northern Europeans at the ‘top’ (although still ‘less than’ White British) and then going down through Southern French, then Italian, Spanish (latin men were viewed as somewhat ‘coloured’), ‘oriental’ (weird, suspicious, insectile) and so on with Indians, blacks and Pakistanis all falling joint ‘bottom’.

Generally speaking my racial and patriarchal culture of ‘play the white man’ had ‘them’ (foreigners) characterised (simultaneously, paradoxically) as:

A. Undeserving, scheming, idle, underling benefit scroungers who get the ‘red carpet’ to whisk them to all of their idle gains in order to help them overpopulate and ‘take us over’.

and (not ‘or’)

B. Insectile hard-workers who take all of ‘our’ jobs, and also terrible healthcare workers who can’t do the job as well as our white nurses and doctors yet were given the jobs as a ‘favour’ out of ‘political-correctness’.

So here are two questions for you (rhetorical or direct, ie if you’d care to give some thought or even answer I’d be delighted either way):

1. How do you think I as a kid learned to racially-identity?

2. How do you imagine that I as a kid learned that study, FE/university, languages, travel, enterprise, ‘bettering myself’ etc were ‘not for me’?

It’s a sickening example of divide and conquer where the Tories shut down Sure Start centres, youth clubs, strip local councils to the bone, screw up the NHS, avoid taxes like it’s an Olympic Sport, then try and claim the problem is anti-white wokeness. Nothing to do with poor areas being shafted of course.

Probably just a co-incidence

Only probably though eh. FFS 🥺

It’s a sickening example of divide and conquer where the Tories shut down Sure Start centres, youth clubs, strip local councils to the bone, screw up the NHS, avoid taxes like it’s an Olympic Sport, then try and claim the problem is anti-white wokeness. Nothing to do with poor areas being shafted of course.

/thread

His background was ‘black’?

Wow, misquote of the century. The spectrum of blokes I’ve employed were from different backgrounds – some reasonably privileged, some from less privileged backgrounds, some from traditional British cultures, some from different ethnic cultures.

Only probably though eh. FFS 🥺

Yes, probably. Maybe his cultural upbringing bred an attitude of a poor attidude to work ethics. I don’t know, as much as you don’t, so don’t start with that shit

Maybe his cultural upbringing bred an attitude of a poor attidude to work ethics. I don’t know, as much as you don’t, so don’t start with that shit

The fact that you work with one black guy who’s lazy and start thinking that might be evidence of a generally poor attitude to work amongst black people speaks volumes.

Yes, probably. Maybe his cultural upbringing bred an attitude of a poor attidude to work ethics. I don’t know, as much as you don’t, so don’t start with that shit

Drawing a conclusion from a sample of one is just daft.

NB Your previous post does come across very much as ‘I’m not a racist but…’.

And when I say ‘as’ it’s pretty much an open confession.

The fact that you work with one black guy who’s lazy and start thinking that might be evidence of a generally poor attitude to work amongst black people speaks volumes.

It was an anecdotal response to Cougars post that maybe ‘we’ are just lazy, based on my experience of employing dozens of different people. I’ve stated that it wouldn’t cloud future recruitment judgements. If that was my general view of black people, then I wouldn’t consider them, would I?

‘I’m not racist because I might consider employing a black person’ 😂

@multi21 from your link

The White working class are by far the largest group of disadvantaged pupils
There were around 982,950 White pupils eligible for free school meals in 2020, compared to 139,720 Asian students as the next largest group

Few paragraphs in and there already seems to be an agenda. Those are absolute numbers not accounting for what proportion of pupils are white to start with (the vast majority). I wonder why they’ve chosen to highlight that statistic.

The stats for working class kids in general are bad, but hey, let’s try and stoke up racial tensions to disguise that fact.

so don’t start with that shit

The shit that you literally started?

Whatever you actually meant (or claim to have meant) you’ve surely got to recognise how your anecdote of “I knew this black guy once and he was lazy” sounds?

It was an anecdotal response to Cougars post that maybe ‘we’ are just lazy

You do understand, don’t you, that I wasn’t talking about every British white person or every British black person? It was a generalisation, this whole tangental discussion is statistics.

Anyway. Doctor Who, then? Who’s going to be the next Doctor do we think? A giraffe?

Also in that report, one of the main reasons for the supposed white disadvantage is that poor white kids often tend to be in less urban areas where services are harder to access.

So, they could have called the report ‘why rural disadvantaged kids are falling behind’, but obviously that doesn’t help with inflaming a culture war does it.

Anyway. Doctor Who, then? Who’s going to be the next Doctor do we think? A giraffe?

Soon it will be illegal to marry anyone of your own species.

His background was ‘black’?

Wow, misquote of the century.

Really?

I’ve probably temp employed over 50 blokes from various backgrounds including a bunch of Eastern Europeans (hardest working, but prone to the odd cock up) over the past 6-7 years.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt, the laziest and least reliable was a black guy

You definitely said backgrounds (my bold) not skin-colours. So no, I don’t misquote you.

Colour of skin is irrelevant to any judgement of anyone in my opinion, get that.

However, different cultural upbringings, or even regional and social (white) upbringings might, nay, will definitely have a bearing on attitudes to work in many cases.

This is the slightly tangential subject of discussion in this thread, isn’t it?

I opened this link expecting to see a load of racism from “Dave from Sheffield”.

Oh look 😳

You sound remarkably like Ron Atkinson Dave:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/apr/25/race.football1

Slave traders had no issues with giving black people work. Nor did the employers in car plants in aparteid South Africa, nor do employers who pay blacks lower wages for the same job or assign them to inferior positions despite higher qualifications. In my experience people who employ blacks are as likely to be as racist as anyone else. If you want an anecdote, possibly the most racist employment I’ve had was industrial cleaning, blacks were given the worst tasks.

However, different cultural upbringings, or even regional and social (white*) upbringings might, nay, will definitely have a bearing on attitudes to work in many cases.

I can relate to that. Our ‘play the white man’ upbringing definitely co-opted ‘whiteness’. And the gender supremacy. We never heard or said ‘play the white woman’.

Which neatly brings us back to Dr Who. A bloody middle class white woman playing a sodding working-class (shhhh) white man’s role? It’ll be a gay transgendered black woman next (<—sarcasm)…and then what shall poor me do for a role-model?

* which begs the question, if there is a ‘white’ attitude to work then which white is the whitest?

Daz from Manchester?
Hugo from Stoke?
Terry from Diss?
Gail from Cork?
Chris from Cornwall?
Betty from Birmingham?
Pippa from Chelsea?
Bob from Bromsgrove?
Dave from Peasmore?

Which of them has the ‘genuine’ ethnic whiteness? You know, like the ‘genuine’ ethnic blackness?

982,950 White pupils eligible for free school meals in 2020, compared to 139,720 Asian students as the next largest group

Out of interest, what is the per-capita (UK white vs asian) eligibility according to those figures? (Not a rhetorical question, I’m terrible at maths)

Anyone good at maths?

Angry white dudes, eh.

Few paragraphs in and there already seems to be an agenda. Those are absolute numbers not accounting for what proportion of pupils are white to start with (the vast majority). I wonder why they’ve chosen to highlight that statistic.

Quick Google suggests that 80% of the UK population are recorded as “white British”, and 7.5% are recorded as “Asian”, just to put those numbers into some sensible context

* which begs the question, if there is a ‘white’ attitude to work then which white is the whitest?

Again, misquoted

Certain social white upbringings will generate a POOR attitude to work

I’m from a poor (as in not well off) council estate upbringing. I chose to rebel against my parents life of benefits and be different in my work ethic.

Anyway, I’m a few glasses of red in, so I’m not shying away from anything said, I’ll re-visit in the morning, read through and respond accordingly.

I opened this link expecting to see a load of racism from “Dave from Sheffield”.

I presume you know me then Tom (by stating my name). Where have we met?

Oh and couldn’t give a flying fig who plays Dr Who  – the Dr’s reincarnation could be in any form. James Bond however, should always be a slightly misogynistic white British alpha male. It’s how it was written, nothing more

Edited. Apologies, regardless of viewpoints (of which I find yours abhorrent) I’m letting my anger at a horrific week at home to sling mud.

….I dont know you past your posts on here, of which your photo hosting username gives away your name.

An EDL rally I guess 🙄

Never been to one, as obviously, neither have you. Come on, man up, how do you know me?

Anyone good at maths?

Regardless of absolute numbers, the percentages don’t change so long as you have sufficient sample size. Eg, your anecdotal one black man back there would yield “100% are lazy.” The larger the sample size, the more reliable your results. (I’m looking at you, L’Oreal.)