EU Referendum – are you in or out?

Calling people thick/rascist etc. will do nothing.

Sorry. What’s the current politically correct term for thick/racist?

Wouldn’t want to offend the definitely-not-snowflakes.

They were always racist nationalists. The type that bemoaned health and safety rules and claimed they couldn’t speak their mind because of “political correctness”
…
Post victory they were emboldened. They suddenly found solidarity, the mask slipped and the facade dropped. Suddenly they were able to speak freely because they were on the willing side.

Bang on.

Then with no apparent sense of irony people write stuff like above to attack Brexiteers.

He’s saying the opposite – he’s attacking racists and defending brexiters.

but all the arseholes voted to Leave.

I dunno, try scrolling through this thread.

Calling people thick/rascist etc. will do nothing.

Calling racists racists is fair game though. If you don’t want to be called racist, don’t be racist. Simples.

So… are we all ready for the “doing Brexit wrong” complaints at the end of this year, and start of next year…? Brexit will never be wrong for a great many people, even if/when it negatively effects them when it starts to become more real… it’ll just be handled wrong, or be undermined by betrayal, or be suffering from bad faith actors in other countries.

Nah itll all be brilliant, because the Daily Mail will say its brilliant

We are already pretty insular as a nation, that will only get worse now

Question and attack the ideas behind Brexit one conversation at a time. Calling people thick/rascist etc. will do nothing.

You are Mark Francois and I claim my £5.

This exact same thing happened with him and Will Self. Pompous arse Francois accused moderately less pompous but sensible Self, repeatedly, of insulting everyone who voted Leave.

Will Self said over and over that he wasn’t and he hadn’t. He was insulting some of them. Although presumably if you are racist then you wouldn’t deem it insulting anyway. What with tub-thumping racists always bleating on about straight speaking you would have thought they would applaud it, no?

Question and attack the ideas behind Brexit one conversation at a time. Calling people thick/rascist etc. will do nothing.

Try to come up with an adjective other than:

Stupid
Racist
Xenophobic
Gullible

Then try to argue why it is valid. My guess is the best you will manage is some kind of synonym for ‘gullible’ like ‘easily led’

See how you get on.

Misled? Manipulated? Lied to?

Campaign to Unify the Nation Trophy winners?

Calling racists racists is fair game though. If you don’t want to be called racist, don’t be racist. Simples.

If you could fix racism by shouting “racist” at people we’d be sorted. There’re are people I work with who are just a tiny bit racist (I live and work in Brexit Ground Zero). Can I reduce their whole being as “racist”? Nope, some of them do stuff like volunteer for a local hospice, they look after sick relatives, they help me out with problems at work. So they’re more than just a racist, and the only way you get to challenge those beliefs* is not shouting “racist” at them every time they stray from the correct thought. Accepting racism and not shouting “racist” at people are not the same thing.

Had a good laugh one day with one of the racist shift managers. He went off on a “the town’s full of Eastern Europeans, can’t hear and English word etc”. Ended up with him getting ribbed from all sides when it turned out how many people were married to Eastern Europeans, and we agreed the local gene pool was hardling thriving. All done in good humour, but actually had an impact on him. I could have gone HR with it and tagged him as racist but it wouldn’t have had the same impact.

*The caveat being that we’re not talking about full blown EDL KKK nut jobs

Nope. Don’t care, not showing these people any quarter now.

Had a good laugh one day with one of the racist shift managers. He went off on a “the town’s full of Eastern Europeans, can’t hear and English word etc”. Ended up with him getting ribbed from all sides when it turned out how many people were married to Eastern Europeans, and we agreed the local gene pool was hardling thriving. All done in good humour, but actually had an impact on him. I could have gone HR with it and tagged him as racist but it wouldn’t have had the same impact.

So, just to clarify, someone was racist so you all called him out for racism, right?

This shit is not normal.

Maybe it is normal, and the last 20 years have been the abnormal blip.

Maybe, what makes me hopeful though Oldnpastit are the youngsters of the world. Each generation seems to the kinder than the last.

Things like this

The contrast between the scenes in Brussels etc last night, projecting the union jack etc, lamenting what they (the EU) are losing, and us draping our own flag all over the place and punting tat.

Chances of us projecting an EU flag? Chance of any Brexiteer giving a passing thought to what we won’t be able to do anymore?

It’ll be a horrible, insular celebration of what they think is a victory.

dannyh

This current state of affairs should never be allowed to become normalised.

no shit sherlock… except is was ignored

and it continues

Boardinbob

Nah, not buying that

They were always racist nationalists. The type that bemoaned health and safety rules and claimed they couldn’t speak their mind because of “political correctness”

No one prior to the referendum was calling them racist for not being a fan of the EU.

Post victory they were emboldened. They suddenly found solidarity, the mask slipped and the facade dropped. Suddenly they were able to speak freely because they were on the willing side.

Of course not every Brexiteer is racist, but you can guarantee every racist is a Brexiteer

So.. the type who bemoaned H&S rules?
You mean like the plumber who works alone and can’t smoke in his van alone because “it’s his place of work”? or the person who got sacked for “not putting a lid on a cup of lukewarm tea” or the one who got sacked for “walking down 3 steps without holding a handrail”?

Frankly, I don’t have a clue if any of these are as a direct result of being in the EU… (although the latter one happened in Holland to a friend)… but I find it hard to believe they are. BUT THAT DOESN’T MATTER because you refuse to listen and the Brexiteers are more than happy to not only listen but blame the EU and offer a solution. They don’t EVEN need to be true… but I could list loads of H&S gone wrong that are. [non of it as far as I know to do with the EU but what does that matter if only one side listens]

No one prior to the referendum was calling them racist for not being a fan of the EU.

Post victory they were emboldened. They suddenly found solidarity, the mask slipped and the facade dropped. Suddenly they were able to speak freely because they were on the willing side.

If you want to rebrand xenophobia as racism then it’s the same as the H&S.
“I want to live amongst people of my own culture” isn’t racist… it’s perfectly normal hence why so many immigrants want to live in areas they are “amongst people of their own culture”

Like H&S this attitude puts all the xenophobes with the racists… of the people that didn’t unfriend me I see a trend… then you see absolute rubbish claiming “they were always racist, they just couldn’t say what they thought” …
STEP BACK and see how stupid that statement is…. racists are not BORN they are created.
Avoiding being racist against Germans… so you really believe a generation were just born wanting to exterminate Jews? What problem was the “final solution” trying to solve?

So now we have the H&S denyers all in a club with the xenophobes and racists .. and would you believe the climate change denyers….

Some local on my local FB page was complaining about the EU flag being flown over the town hall???
Some guy who blames some polish immigrant for losing his job is claiming the same immigrant came to claim benefits

We have Boris making racially provocative statements and you completely miss the point.
Does Boris believe* in piccanee smiles … or is he just making a statement saying “look vote for me and you don’t need to worry about everything you say being taken as racist, homophobic ….”

*I’m pretty convinced Boris doesn’t believe in anything but Boris

Accepting racism and not shouting “racist” at people are not the same thing.

True enough.

“I want to live amongst people of my own culture” isn’t racist…

Also true. But “I want to live amongst people of my own culture and I want everyone who isn’t like me to **** off somewhere else” kind of is.

So now we have the H&S denyers all in a club with the xenophobes and racists .. and would you believe the climate change denyers….

There does seem to be a correlation.

acists are not BORN they are created.
Avoiding being racist against Germans… so you really believe a generation were just born wanting to exterminate Jews?

There have been links made between genetics and the five big personality traits -extraversion, neuroticism, agreeableness, conscientiousness, and openness to experience. So maybe?

If you start The Wicker Man Final Cut version at 21.32 tonight you can replace the 11pm Brexit triumphalism with the sound of the islanders singing as they torch Sgt Howie.

Group therapy going well I see.

Oh look, the Tory’s here

Group therapy going well I see.

Shouldn’t you be putting an English-only Spotify playlist together or something?

Misled? Manipulated? Lied to?

All require a degree of gullibility.

Group therapy going well I see.

Yes it’s quite cathartic.

What are you getting out of it?

Also true. But “I want to live amongst people of my own culture and I want everyone who isn’t like me to **** off somewhere else” kind of is.

Yeah … and one is turning into another. If you look at many remain areas (London especially) some of the most ardent remainers are multi-cultural areas (Like my own) … and many of the most ardent Brexit areas are “little England”…. and most of the immigration the little englanders fear most is sod all to do with the EU….

But … it’s over simplistic to get hung up on racism…. it’s a big motivator but it’s also an end point for many… possibly a poor analogy but… it’s like H&S or xenophobia or PC is a “gateway drug” … but then people start hanging with the “wrong crowd”… and this wrong crowd then increasingly radicalise each other.

it’s over simplistic to get hung up on racism…. 

I don’t think amyone’s getting hung up, it’s just that “racist” is a key indicator for “Brexiteer”.

I personally love it when mefty turns up to provide insight and illumination. Sometimes I wonder how I could ever doubt the wisdom of leaving the EU.

2tyred – The Mash also like a Wicker Man reference too…

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/express-readers-outraged-they-cant-put-remainers-in-wicker-man-for-brexit-eve-20200131193000

Group therapy going well I see

Still got 11 months of being in the EU.

Come back 3 years after we leave mefty, and I’ll tell you all about potatoes and how, once, nearly every one could go to a shop AND SEE ONE FOR REAL.

Can I make a suggestion as originator of this thread.

Can we shut this thread down at midnight? The in or out argument has been done here. We have more than covered the ground.

I personally would like a new thread discussing the issues going forward from here. I am happy to hold a spotlight to the decisions going forward.

I don’t want to discuss any issues going forward, happy to just let the Brexies wallow in their own shit. I’m not contributing to any further debate other than to indulge in some schadenfreude now and again.

This roughly sums up my attitude –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLoUKVa0GEU

[Mod edit due to swears]

What are you getting out of it?

Nothing that’s why I have been hoovering – house needs to be tidy = big family celebration tonight.

Can I make a suggestion as originator of this thread.

Sounds very sensible and as good a cut off as any.

I think the funny thing is that regardless of the things that have happened since the referendum and regardless of the result of the GE the elephant in the room has been how do we move forwards.

Can I make a suggestion as originator of this thread.

Can we shut this thread down at midnight? The in or out argument has been done here. We have more than covered the ground.

I personally would like a new thread discussing the issues going forward from here. I am happy to hold a spotlight to the decisions going forward.

This sounds like a very sensible idea.

Midnight CET, of course.

Nothing that’s why I have been hoovering – house needs to be tidy = big family celebration tonight.

Awesome.

Meanwhile a good proportion of your fellow countrymen hate you with a deep seated passion.

I’m sure your beloved Great Britain is going to do swimmingly under such a scenario.

Pyrrhic victory anyone?

Nothing that’s why I have been hoovering – house needs to be tidy = big family celebration tonight.

Cool, is it someone’s birthday?

Given the original title, it does seem a moot point now.

At 23:01 UK time can you please start the ‘EU when can we rejoin?’ thread?

At 23:01 UK time can you please start the ‘EU when can we rejoin?’ thread?

I’m certainly hoping this one will be closed by then.

Nothing that’s why I have been hoovering – house needs to be tidy = big family celebration tonight.

What exactly are you celebrating? The fact nothing is changing for the next 11 months?