EU Referendum – are you in or out?

Question for remainers: if we leave without a deal, and you could (this is hypothetical obvs) would you move to an EU country?

Nah – I’ll be looking to move my country to the EU.

You do realise don’t you that labour don’t have enough votes to force through an amendment removing her power for no deal?

Please read the posts on this. The Cherry “Parliamentary Supremacy” indicative vote was lost by less than the number of Labour MPs following the whip and abstaining. While a different whip may well have resulted in a narrow loss rather than a win… that is the best case for any/all options at the moment… so it would still be an option with a chance in future… whipping to abstain may well have killed it.

Bonners,
Don’t be surprised by ignorance.

Did you miss the fact that there was a “what is a customs union” primer for Conservative MPs in the HoC yesterday?

Don’t be surprised, just be angry.

Question for remainers: if we leave without a deal, and you could (this is hypothetical obvs) would you move to an EU country?

Interesting question. Yes, is my first thought, but any move of that size is a big one, so rather sadly, I may end up still here. If Scotland counts as in the EU, then that changes things.

From my time serving in Northern Ireland, i seem to remember that there are houses and roads which span the border is there not? There are roads where one side is in Republic and other in NI, will you have to show papers to overtake? “Siobhan, grab the international driving permit, i’m going for an overtake!”

What do you do if your farm has fields in both?

Ridiculous situation….

And while you suggest No Deal Brexit may be a good idea Chekw, can you confirm to us which country you are currently sat in and whereabouts your bank account is held?

Who, on here, is going to be picking up the tab?

At the moment, nobody is paying for all this – in terms of “Jesuswept! Have you seen our council tax / NI / PAYE / new emergency NHS/State schooling tax bill?”.

If you’re young, you’re going to cop it.

If you’re earning “enough”, you’re going to cop it (say Very roughly ave. household income above £33,000)

If you’re old/low paid/no paid, they might come after you but practically there is not much more blood to be squeezed but you can be jolly sure the creditors will want paying, not just the implementation of vindictive welfare policies.

Perhaps this is the fairer Britain that Brexit promised – not a unicorn powered, better off Britain, mind, just more people bouncing along the poverty line.

Maybe not though. Do (and will) leavers contribute more to the exchequer than remainers?

And while you suggest No Deal Brexit may be a good idea Chekw, can you confirm to us which country you are currently sat in and whereabouts your bank account is held?

UK. GeordieLand 😃

No offshore bank …

As for Northern Ireland that is the family feud that they need to settle themselves. No amount of world intervention can solve that.

And as someone who now works for an insurers dealing with cross border Fourth Directive claims for accidents all over Europe, i can categorically state that Brexit will mean a hike in your premiums, every lawyer who has a claimant involved in an accident with a European vehicle is issuing premature Court proceedings to make sure they have done so before any no-deal Brexit as the Brussels Recast would end, it means that if they issue afterwards they not be able to enforce the Judgement against the foreign insurers, on top of that, just redrafting our own letters and our agreements with the foreign insurers we act for, has cost my firm millions, so that will be passed on to the customers.

On a tangental note, latest independence polling in scotland is running at 60/40 against. (poll for Angus Robertsons “progress scotland”).

Do (and will) leavers contribute more to the exchequer than remainers?

I would guess remainers willl be contributing more. In general a remainer is southern and better educated meaning they are highly likely to be higher earners.

scotroutes

Member

Question for remainers: if we leave without a deal, and you could (this is hypothetical obvs) would you move to an EU country?

Nah – I’ll be looking to move my country to the EU.

this – but if independence for scotland does not happen I will be off ( at least partly – I have family in the EU and have a couple of fiddles in mind that could allow me to keep my EU rights)( one family member is a lawyer specialising in european law and others own businesses)

The Cherry “Parliamentary Supremacy” indicative vote was lost by less than the number of Labour MPs following the whip and abstaining. While a different whip may well have resulted in a narrow loss rather than a win… that is the best case for any/all options at the moment…

Minor point, but that isn’t quite true. If the TIGgers / CUKs had voted for either the CU or CM2 motion, they would have passed. I know TIGgers are pro-Remain (it’s their only policy AFAIK) but if your stated goal is “avoid no-deal at all costs” then maybe there should be some compromise here to avoid disaster?

On a tangental note, latest independence polling in scotland is running at 60/40 against. (poll for Angus Robertsons “progress scotland”).

Scotland has a low population so will they accept remainders from the south migrating en masse to Scotland? Assuming that is the case.

What isn’t “quite true” @SamB?

Question for remainers: if we leave without a deal, and you could (this is hypothetical obvs) would you move to an EU country?

Depends, but probably no. From family to job to housing. I have too much investment here

****Tin foil hats at the ready****

There’s a comment on the BBC website that says we have actually already left the EU and did so on 29/3/19.There’s a court case going on because apparently when the government amended the leaving date to 12th April they amended the wrong statute.

Brexit is certainly eroding my resistance to Scottish Independence, much as I hate to side with those smart-arsed indy lot.

molgrips
60/40 AGAINST, not for.
(I confess don’t fully understand that even as someone who doesn’t want independence.. Best explanation might be that more constitutional embuggerance is not seen as a fix for constitutional embuggerance)

eat_the_pudding: (I know I shouldn’t feed the troll) but you need to know this.
Europe will negotiate after no deal.
But I wonder what the starting point will be? Hmmmmmm.

You can think of something later … 😄 Trade deal, security, welfare whatever …

Barnier today stressing that no deal isn’t the end of the process.

Barnier can take a hike coz he is not going to live forever.

If/when the UK comes back to table after several months of turmoil, £39bn citizens rights and Irish backstop will be price of admission. Back to where we started, in an even weaker negotiating position.

While Barnier focuses on the negative aspects of UK someone is pulling the carpet under his EU feet and that is Not UK. i.e. the 2nd or future 1st strongest economy is pulling the carpet. Also note that some of the EU leaders are annoying the hell out of SE Asia at the moment. If EU want to start a trade war with SE Asia then by all means …

Thats where no deal puts us. Right back here but in a much weaker and desperate state suffering massive economic damage every day.

If it is a bad deal just walk away. Simple.

I was and still am all for Scottish independence and the devolution of power to the most local level.Why would anyone not be? Same for Wales and NI if that’s what they want and maybe then the English regions.How many backstops would that need?

If it is a bad deal just walk away. Simple.

in this case just ‘walking away’ = remaining

if youre buying a car & its too much you just dont buy the car, ‘no deal’ is like walking away but youve already set fire to your old car!

@Kelvin

What isn’t “quite true” @SamB?

That the Cherry amendment was the “best case” amendment. However – I think I misread you! I thought you meant “Had the best chance of passing”…

Reading it back though I think you meant “narrow pass” is the best case for anything? If you did, then I agree with you 👍

chewkw,
Yup, should’a stuck with my initial impulse.
TTFN 🙂

Eat the pudding from their website – I cannot find the figure in their polling. Perhaps its buried as bad news but everything they are posting on the polling suggests otherwise> Do you have a link?
Scotland will become an independent country
63% Agree / 37% Disagree.

There will be another referendum on Scottish independence in the next two years
Likely: 48% / Unlikely: 44%

There will be another referendum on Scottish independence in the next five years
Likely: 59% / Unlikely: 32%

There should be another referendum on Scottish independence
61% Agree / 39% Disagree

in this case just ‘walking away’ = remaining

Crikey, sound rather desperate that. 😮

if youre buying a car & its too much you just dont buy the car, ‘no deal’ is like walking away but youve already set fire to your old car!

🤣 I am sure there are many more cars to choose from with the wad of cash you have. Remember, UK is not short of a penny or two.

@SamB, I just meant that, yesterday, several amendments were close to passing, and that the Cherry amendment could also have been in that position if Labour hadn’t whipped to abstain… meaning that it would have stayed a live issue… I fear yesterday killed it. Why the Labour leadership would want to help May by killing it… well…

@chewkw, which continent will the UK be “buying” (FFS) a new relationship with that is as useful and advantageous as our current relationship with the one we are on and surrounded by?

WTO needs a hard border and controls in NI, the Good Friday Agreement precludes this

I didn’t think this was technically true was it (at least according to a BBC news article I read a few weeks ago…)? The GFA specifically mentions removing the military presence from the border but doesn’t actually mention anything about a customs border (as no one thought at the time the UK may leave the EU). So possibly against the spirit of the agreement and it might be enough to cause a divide that would end up destroying the agreement but not actually specifically precluded by the agreement.

UK is not short of a penny or two

There are individuals and companies that are rolling in it but I thought UK PLC was in hock for quite a large amount. Clock

Am i getting my apples and PSNCRs mixed up?

If it is a bad deal just walk away. Simple.

You are Iain Duncan Smith and I claim my Universal Credit 5 week delay in payment

Oh ffs we did this months ago! WTO needs a hard border and controls in NI, the Good Friday Agreement precludes this. Square that circle.

And a50 should not have been triggered until a solution for the border had been found.

So that would be never then. Only way is to maintain regulatory and customs alignment with RoI, inc. FoM

well there you go, if they had started planning this all out these problems could have been highlighted and either solutions found or it made apparent that there were none – and then the options left would have been down to EEA or revoke or remain – instead of just muddling along and not making the options clear and getting to the state we are in, just as unclear as before.

Yup GFA said UK gov has to remobve security infrastructure, also that people must be able to go about their lives unimpeded between the 2 regions, which is kind of arguable whether customs checks etc could stop that.
Its the contravention of the spirit of the agreement that is the bigge problem

well there you go, if they had started planning this all out these problems could have been highlighted and either solutions found or it made apparent that there were none – and then the options left would have been down to EEA or revoke or remain – instead of just muddling along and not making the options clear and getting to the state we are in, just as unclear as before.

It has been made apparent, many, many times

but the brexiteers keep ignoring this & pushing their bonkers 2.0 malthouse unicorn infinity brady bollox,

you seem to be missing the point that the brexiteers are just dont care about reality

You are Iain Duncan Smith and I claim my Universal Credit 5 week delay in payment

Keep up binners you can have an interest free advance nowadays…repayable of course but at least it frees up a space at the food bank for someone else 😉

I say that the Brexiteer ultras can have there beloved No Deal next week, on one condition….

They personally have to go and install the border surveillance equipment themselves in South Armagh

Rees Mogg can hold the ladder for IDS, while Boris looks out for snipers.

Mark Francois might come in handy. He was in the TA you know? And apparently won the second world war, single-handed. So I’m sure a few provo death squads wouldn’t cause him much trouble 😀

@chewkw, which continent will the UK be “buying” (FFS) a new relationship with that is as useful and advantageous as our current relationship with the one we are on and surrounded by?

SE Asia, Asia, Africa, South America and Middle East etc will trade with UK so long as UK do not try to impose their views on them.

There are individuals and companies that are rolling in it but I thought UK PLC was in hock for quite a large amount. Clock

There are others on your Clock list that have bigger debts than UK.

You are Iain Duncan Smith and I claim my Universal Credit 5 week delay in payment

🤣 I think he has more hairs than me.

On the border on the island of ireland – it could be left as an open border in most ways with zero tarriffs or checks – but then under WTO rules we would have to give that same right to every country and phytosanitory checks and the like still need to be done. Imagine all those low duty fags coming into the UK via that back door we have left open tho etc etc. To say nothing of all those EU immigrants crossing the border. Might even be a few enterprising brown folk as well ;-)_

Question for remainers: if we leave without a deal, and you could (this is hypothetical obvs) would you move to an EU country?

“If we could” TBH the only reason we haven’t moved to France already is that whilst we can speak enough French to order food and shop, we’re no way fluent enough to be able to work in our current jobs as Specialist Nurse and IT Consultant.

TBH IT sales are 2 a penny, but, according to the recruitment consultants anyway we’d qualify for working visas for most English speaking nations, despite being over-30.

we’re no way fluent enough to be able to work in our current jobs as Specialist Nurse and IT Consultant

Surely ‘turn it off, then turn it back on again’ is a universal language? 😉

There are others on your Clock list that have bigger debts than UK.

How, in any practical sense, does that help the average UK bod?

Unless it’s like the hug only Horlicks can give.

Surely ‘turn it off, then turn it back on again’ is a universal language?

That’s Techie speak.

The consultant version is

“Hi, my computer is playing up, can you help?”

“Sure, how much do you want to spend?”