EU Referendum – are you in or out?

@nick to also point out we have from a remain point of view compromised greatly by allowing this shit show to go on this long, we have allowed ministers to humiliate themselves, we have allowed the nationalist and populist to insult out closest neighbours and to undermine our standingin the world while trying badly to come up with a workable exit plan.

They have failed. What do I need to compromise on next?

Put the best they managed to the people and test the will of the people. That is where this started, that is where it will end. People cannot invoke democracy then run from it, people can not claim massive support but hide from testing that.

If it gets to this I reckon it’ll be put to Parliament and they’ll vote to revoke

You reckon? That’s okay then. What if May decides otherwise, and lets no deal Brexit play out… plenty in her party will applaud her for that.

Put the best they managed to the people and test the will of the people.

That this is even seen as even slightly controversial now is depressing. Propaganda works.

2.

People cannot invoke democracy then run from it, people can not claim massive support but hide from testing that.

And the proper way of testing it democratically, is to have an election. Now remind me which party has been saying that for months?

How does that…? Oh forget it.

by allowing this shit show to go on this long,

The disaster capitalists have already made thier money, it’s mission accomplished.

They could make more yet, but they are clean on profit.

We could always revoke and then redo Article 50 giving us another 2 years to play with.

Getting anyone in EU to return our calls after maybe a bit trickier.

How will parliament stop it? Given that they can’t even back an indicative vote suggesting that they should have the power to do so?

Vote of no confidence needs 320 votes to pass (with SF not taking their seats). Tories currently have 313 (312 now Bowles has gone) and the DUP 10, which makes 322. So, perhaps it’s not beyond reach with a couple of defections from people like Ken Clarke.

However, given the outcome of a passed no confidence motion would be to delay (and possibly even revoke) brexit, it’s quite likely that Hoey et al. could vote to save the government. Hoey’s seat voted by a large majority to remain. I doubt they’ll want her back, which could be impetus enough given the levels of self interest around at present.

Speaking as someone of limited political understanding nor will to try, I’m exsaperated at this shambles. Our self serving bunch of arseholes that call themselves our Government cannot after years of debates, countless times of asking come to a conclusion cannot put themselves to one side and work for the good of the country.   Its not leadership, its selfishness.

If there were a GE I wouldn’t vote in protest.  As much as it’d make no difference or perhaps would not by its own action help my own cause, who in thier right mind would make any effort to provide this bunch of selfish idiots a means to “lead” our country.

I can’t be the only one that has no faith in the government of politians per se after this debacle.

And the proper way of testing it democratically, is to have an election. Now remind me which party has been saying that for months?

except that it isn’t – having a GE is too devisive as there are lots of people that just won’t vote for a certain party no matter what their brexit stance.

Plus the number of people that will not ever vote for corbyn has again increased now as they don’t trust him has just been boosted by his last-minute switch in policy, going completely against his last manifesto (and mandate as he would say).

dogbone

Subscriber
We could always revoke and then redo Article 50 giving us another 2 years to play with.

This is the one thing we can’t do. It’s in the legal advice on revoke.

@dazh a ge does not work for a single issue we tried that before. There is no appetite for a labour brexit which is what the leadership want.

@kelvin you have made up uour mind as to what outcome each future event will be, it’s a bold claim with so many variables in play.

If there were a GE I wouldn’t vote in protest. As much as it’d make no difference or perhaps would not by its own action help my own cause, who in thier right mind would make any effort to provide this bunch of selfish idiots a means to “lead” our country.

Sounds like the reasons we are in this mess to start with. With such hight levels of dissatisfaction with the main 2 parties this could be a ge where more change is possible. To give up and flounce is the worst possible thing you could do. If you must protest with a vote use it to support somebody who might fight to change something.

it would have been so much better if politicians and everyone had accepted the ref result and gone straight in to planning for a ‘no-deal’, and then negotiated upwards from that situation to an improved situation.

And a50 should not have been triggered until a solution for the border had been found.

When the whole world is laughing at our parliament you really have to stand out to be the most ridiculous bell-end in town….

…..but Pendfold steps up

'If you stop talking I'll answer your question.'

In a heated exchange with @PaulBrandITV, Conservative MP Mark Francois says tonight's Brexit votes were an 'attempted coup against the British people'

Read more: https://t.co/A6h1143tqU pic.twitter.com/Vhd9yy89yu

— ITV News (@itvnews) April 1, 2019

it would have been so much better if politicians and everyone had accepted the ref result and gone straight in to planning for a ‘no-deal’

But no deal wasn’t what was promised with Brexit, it’s was a super deal, money for the NHS and lots of other mega trade deals with the rest of the world.

But no deal wasn’t what was promised with Brexit, it’s was a super deal, money for the NHS and lots of other mega trade deals with the rest of the world.

and what point are you making – that’s got nothing to do with an EU deal, has it?

if the ‘no-deal’ baseline had been set in the first place then negotiating trade deals to be better than that baseline could have then happened, instead of wasting all this time countering remoaning losers like yourself…

Ah, the old lie, that it all would’ve been fine if we’d all just gotten behind it.

How would that have made a difference to the outcome?

instead of wasting all this time countering remoaning losers like yourself…

🙂 I’m typing this from my holiday apartment in the Alps which has shot up in Sterling value since the vote.

So if we’d all just started with lower expectations we wouldn’t be so disappointed
Okay got it now.

and what point are you making – that’s got nothing to do with an EU deal, has it?

Exactly, but that is what won the vote

if the ‘no-deal’ baseline had been set in the first place then negotiating trade deals to be better than that baseline could have then happened

Apart from it doesn’t work like that, at all.

So basically, start as low as possible and then a trade deal with the Faroe Islands would have been the best thing ever!
I like your logic Turnerguy. 😂😂

Really Cougar?? Have a word with yourself.

Care to elaborate on what you mean?

Maybe we should just invoke no deal,it didn’t get a majority in parliament but so what?

The difference is that parliament is sovereign, not the electorate.

if the ‘no-deal’ baseline had been set in the first place then negotiating trade deals to be better than that baseline could have then happened, instead of wasting all this time countering remoaning losers like yourself…

Far as I can tell, there has been no countering of anything outside of the Internet and even that has been “we won you lost shut up and get on with it two world wars and one world cup doo dah project fear something sovereignty something why do you hate democracy?” and that doesn’t take a great deal of time. If there’s one thing the leave contingent has been really, really good at over the last couple of years it’s not countering anything but rather ignoring it instead.

You broke it, you fix it, don’t you %^&*ing dare try and pin this cluster**** on us now. It’s not like you weren’t warned.

if the ‘no-deal’ baseline had been set in the first place

Plus, y’know, it was.

2016: “if we crash out, we’re proper****ed” – “project fear!”

2019: “if we crash out, we’re proper****ed” – “wow, if only someone had said this three years ago!”

I still can’t see why the option with the most votes doesn’t win.

May didn’t get a majority but she won the election.

a ge does not work for a single issue we tried that before. There is no appetite for a labour brexit which is what the leadership want.

But it shouldn’t be a single issue election. Brexit is the symptom of a much deeper problem, and there’s only one party which seems to understand that.

i’m not sure there’s much evidence that people don’t want a ‘labour brexit’. Clearly there is some appetite because the remain at all costs parties are not exactly setting the world alight are they? The only way to test it though is via an election.

But it shouldn’t be a single issue election. Brexit is the symptom of a much deeper problem, and there’s only one party which seems to understand that.

It is but it is a single issue that needs resolving right now. A GE and we go for another 2 years to work out we still can’t agree.

i’m not sure there’s much evidence that people don’t want a ‘labour brexit’. Clearly there is some appetite because the remain at all costs parties are not exactly setting the world alight are they?

Yep, the old one of 80% voted for this…. anecdotally I think you have seen enough people who did not support brexit but voted for one of the parties to try and get something out of this. As I’ve said before probably more didn’t vote Lib Dem because of tuition fees not anything to do with brexit.

37% of the electorate voted for Bexit
36% voted for remain
The Majority of MP’s did not want brexit

We have a deal to vote on, it was the product of 2 years insulting out neighbours.

Kryton57:

If there were a GE I wouldn’t vote in protest. As much as it’d make no difference or perhaps would not by its own action help my own cause, who in thier right mind would make any effort to provide this bunch of selfish idiots a means to “lead” our country.

If there is a GE, and you really can not find *any* of the candidates you could support (even one with no hope of winning) then please go along anyway and spoil your vote.

A vote for a minority candidate may avoid them losing their deposit, or encourage them to keep campaigning for whatever issue they (and maybe you) care deeply about, even if not elected.

A vote for a minority candidate helps build support for electoral reform – yes it’s unlikely we’ll ever ditch FPTP, but the smaller share the reds & blues get the more chance of change.

A spoiled vote still counts for turnout, and helps the whole system give a better reflection of the public will: imagine what millions of spoiled ballots would do to ‘legitimacy’ of the result. ‘None of the above, since you’re all ****!’ from millions of people?

Please do vote in some way, every tine you can. For those you support, for no-one at all if you must. But please do vote.

Most people didn’t vote lib dem because in most constituencies its a wasted vote

It is but it is a single issue that needs resolving right now

If the last 3 years have proven anything, it’s that this issue is so complex and difficult that an immediate solution is impossible. It’s going to take a lot longer to resolve, an entire parliament at least I would suggest. The starting point can only be an election because we have no ther mechanism available.

The starting point can only be an election because we have no ther mechanism available.

Bull Shit!! We have other mechanisms, one is staring you in the face, it got the most votes last night, it was offered several times as a way out to May, can you remember what that is? Unless of course you reject the idea that people can change their minds.

Mays deal is the best available and far better than I thought possible given Mays red lines

IMO the best and obvious solution is a referendum on Mays deal v remain. Everyone knows no deal is an utter disaster in the making ( apart from the terminally deluded) The only reason this is being blocked is the fundamentalist brexshitters know they would lose a second referendum and a few labour folk are scared of racists in their constituencies or are terminally deluded like Hoey

Don’t forget that the bnp won a seat by less than 20 votes. Every vote matters .

.

you think she wants to also be blamed for singlehandedly crashing the economy?

Shits ‘n’ giggles?

Most people didn’t vote lib dem because in most constituencies its a wasted vote

Just imagine 48% voting LibDem.

The difference is that parliament is sovereign, not the electorate.

But, but DEMOCRACY, WILL OF THE PEOPLE. Or something.

The disaster capitalists have already made thier money, it’s mission accomplished.

Yes they would probably be OK with letting this one go and look forward to the next way of destabilizing the economy.

I’m with the on his last two posts.

There is no appetite for a labour brexit which is what the leadership want.

but what is a labour brexit – they keep changing their tune – their stance now is not what was in their manifesto. corbyn has a serious issue with voter trust and it has just got worse with his recent switch.

If there is a GE it is not going to stop a hard bexit

Bull Shit!! We have other mechanisms, one is staring you in the face, it got the most votes last night, it was offered several times as a way out to May, can you remember what that is?

As Ken Clark says it’s alright adding a PV without the direction attached to it. You do well. The minute you have a PV coupled with the options it becomes less clear. Red herring.

@sockpuppet – fair point and understood, thanks.   Last time around I voted for the Green Party as they promised most of what I wanted locally.

Upon reflection if there is a GE, I shall review the options again and not abstain.

One for the No Deal fantasists.

Barnier today stressing that no deal isn't the end of the process. If/when the UK comes back to table after several months of turmoil, £39bn citizens rights and Irish backstop will be price of admission. Back to where we started, in an even weaker negotiating position.

— James Rothwell (@JamesERothwell) April 2, 2019

Ah, the old lie, that it all would’ve been fine if we’d all just gotten behind it.

How would that have made a difference to the outcome?

how do you know it is a lie – how do you know it wouldn’t have made a difference ?

If we had started assuming worst case no-deal we would then know the areas of most pain to try and negotiate up from, and so would everyone else. We would also have had time to do it.