EU Referendum – are you in or out?

So, we would be able to refuse entry to convicted paedophiles, murderers and rapists from the EU, like we can with those from other parts of the world (Arnis Zalkalns allowed in the country, Mike Tyson refused)

And you think that’s a bad thing?
I think it refutes the point i refuted – hell even the person who made it refuted his point 😕

whether it is good or bad is a different debate from if things will change

Thanks for agreeing with me in your own personal way 😉

Cheap airlines was one of the things the Eu gave us – along with cheap roaming on mobiles

No idea if I am in or out, just wish a bit more than bloody immigration was being discussed.

Listened to Boris’ claptrap on the drive back from a ride this afternoon.

Naked opportunism – Ossie and May v Gove and Bojo or Bogoff now when Dave leaves for the gravy train.

So he outlines what he wants – and in so doing largely described the status quo – and then pretends that we have do do something silly to get it. Sadly, a lot will swallow this stuff.

What a depressing saga this is going to be – at least it will be relatively short.

Good news is we will be deporting convicted criminals upon release as we won’t be bound by the ECJ.

#jambafacts the gift that just keeps on giving.

Out.

@andy – how did the EU give us budget airlines, and if so how did Asia get them then ?

@Klunk it really is my pleasure. It’s the ECJ precedent on the EU HR bill which means we cannot deport people due to spurious defences like the right to a family life.

@tmh reports are that more than 50% of Tory MPs will vote leave, even more naked opportunism ? EU have turned down request after request from us for change, wouldn’t even discuss freedom of movement, appointed Junker against our wishes. Time for them to get the message that they had a chance to reform and keep us in the EU but they blew it.

Out.

🙂 Nice, buy a hat, make a donation ? Vote Leave

Piece on funding today. Election commission will determine official campaigns who will get £600,000. Max spend is £7m. Somewhat bizarrely the political parties also get funds, not sure how that ties with max campaign spend

Tories £7m
Labour £5.5m
UKIP £4m
Lib Dems £3m
SNP/UDP/others £500,000 (ish)

So Boris has come out, so to speak

If he thought for just one second that his leadership ambitions would be better served by saying the exact opposite, he’d be saying the exact opposite.

If you attach any more credibility than that to the drivel we’ll have to listen to him spouting for the next 4 months, then you probably need to have a serious word with yourself

Alternatively, you could contact me directly about some investment opportunities I have available through my Nigerian uncle. A former government minister who needs some help getting his many millions out of the country. You will be handsomely rewarded for your part in this enterprise…

I’m IN.

As yet, the OUT campaign have yet to come up with a plan to exactly how they are going to mange Brexit.

Sorry, but I need fact not ideology, p1ss, wind & BS.

That goes for BOTH sides.

@binners Boris will convert undecided voters, he can’t bring back the dead 🙂

This Vote leave website made me chuckle, quite a lot actually VoteLeave.org

@tmh reports are that more than 50% of Tory MPs will vote leave, even more naked opportunism ?

You’re familar with the whole concept of a referendum, right? Their opinion is as important as Hora’s

@binners Boris will convert undecided voters

Indeed. It illustrates perfectly how politicians and the media in their South Eastern bubble loftily treat opinion in the rest of the country with casual contempt. As a poster boy, I know that down there you all think he’s simply super, and oh so frightfully amusing.

Up in this part of the world he’s about as popular as a fart in a spacesuit. Like I said… You have grasped the concept that we all get a vote, right? Those in the home counties don’t get two or three each

Sorry, but I need fact not ideology, p1ss, wind & BS.

we will all feel like we’ve been living in a sewer by the end of June.

@andy – how did the EU give us budget airlines, and if so how did Asia get them then ?

It was the deregulation of the routes within europe in the late 90’s that allowed the low cost airlines such as easyjet, ryanair etc in

As for Asia, I haven’t a clue how they did theirs, but I remember going to the south of france back in the 70’s and 80’s and it was about £120 then and only BA and air france were allowed on that route. Since then it has gotten waaay cheaper to fly anywhere in Europe.

Same with the mobile data stuff at the moment, it will only effect prices in Europe, so their legislation wont make calls or internet cheaper in China ! sorry 🙁

Nipper99 – Member

yes, £500 million pa in Wales.

A fortnights subs will cover that… 🙂

Jambas – are the immigration red herring 😉 so why didnt Dave make a bigger issue of this? Errr, we have an opt out of Shengen and look at the numbers that we take in. It’s frankly a disgrace.

Then, look a current migration patterns – so the big section being the Poles. 98% come to work or study and make a positive contribution, A massive, wait for it, 2, yes TWO percent are on benefits. How awful – this tsunami of folk making a positive co tribute on to the econom! Whatever next….

Like you I have had the opportunity to live and work in France, my son has studied there for a year (and like his peers is strong IN) and remember there are more Brits living in the UK (largely Spain – how economically active are they ? – and Ireland) that EU citizens living in UK (Poles above being the biggest)

I wasn’t going to bother contributing to this thread, as I’ve always been against the EU but thought it was academic really as I presumed we would stay in.
But now Boris Johnson has set his stall out there is a real possibility we will leave.
It will come down to the wire.

I don”t think deregulation was purely as a result of the EU (kind of my point with Asia, they introduced budget airlines by deregulating routes). Its my strongly held belief its not going to change post a leave. As Grayling said it’s in the interest of all these airports / holiday regions to encourage cheap flights. The UK sadly demonstrated that air travel is quite inelastic by introducing Air Passenger Duty (Labour I beleive in 2008 ?), we still fly more than we used to.

The mobile costs I will agree with you on, that was something driven EU wide. However, again I cannot see it being reversed in the event of a leave.

Touche @binners 🙂

A massive, wait for it, 2, yes TWO percent are on benefits.

It’s a culture! a something for nothing culture (so said the coke head on the radio this morning)

THM – can I just say that i’m finding being in complete agreement with you a deeply disorientating experience!

Poles are a good example. 10 years ago they didn’t really feature in the census now they are 1m plus and the largest or second largest nationality group in the UK. With controlled immigration we could take the best person for the job no matter what race, creed or colour. Do we really believe its always the EU citizen who’s best for the job ? Also as for contributing that’s a tough analysis – someone making – say – £15k pa isn;t putting that much in and are they taking a job which should go to an unemployed person ? All those zero hour contract bods at Sports Direct, is that really adding anything ?

You state 2% are on benefits, you are forgetting all the in work stuff like tax credits and child allowance. There where some stats published recently which showed the average claim from an EU person was something like £6k pa with 40% claiming (all this from hazy memory)

Relax binners – wisdom come to us all in the end! 😉

Low cost airlines (as anyone who has done an MBA knows) started with South West Airlines taking on Braniff in N America. Taught in marketing courses all round the world – great example of understanding your target market segment!

It’s also going to be interesting to see how much enthusiasm Gove has for campaigning when he stands back and takes a long hard look at his new ‘allies’

YOu two always have a love in over Europe You like to moan about it. like the errant child who wont do what the parents wanted it to when it grew up, but deep down you both love it 😉

I am also largely in agreement with you both as well

The EU is not perfect but the out is little more than sabre rattling as the choice of supporters largely shows.

@binners that’s the difference between Vote Leave and Grass Roots out. There is a reason I joined Vote Leave and not GO

THM – can I just say that i’m finding being in complete agreement with you a deeply disorientating experience!

It was deeply disturbing to return from holiday to find myself agreeing with JY (well strictly speaking he was agreeing with me 😉 ), most disconcerting. Fortunately normal service has been resumed.

Jammers – They’re all on the same side. You think that given the no doubt hysterical nature of the campaign to leave, that people are going to notice any difference? Or indeed, if there will actually be any difference

Straight banana anyone?

Do we really believe its always the EU citizen who’s best for the job ?

No but one has to pick someone legally able to work here

Also as for contributing that’s a tough analysis

Yet when its been done [by independent sources] it always comes back as net contribution from immigration irrespective of the “hazy numbers”, you pull from the ether of your mind, to counter actual facts.

but that’s funding that not dependent on the f***wits in Westminster of whatever ilk.

I have to say I am in a thoroughly good mood today. The campaigns haven’t really started but it’s been a very good few days for Vote Leave.

Apologies for three posts in a row – mind you with proper forum software hey’d be joined together automatically

Not 100% on this, but as the UK is not a member of Schengen we have complete control over our borders, don’t we? Immigration not a problem.
Free movement of workers for EU residents might be a different kettle of fish.

strictly speaking he was agreeing with me

I just wanted a day of being right and not being constrained by the facts or logic

It was a glorious time.

teamhurtmore – Member

Like you I have had the opportunity to live and work in France, my son has studied there for a year

My missus has had the opportunity to live and work outside the EU, and has studied outside the EU.
It really isn’t that difficult. 💡

we know but its lesser than the right to do something which is what we have currently

I suppose being privy to my partner’s experiences and having worked in an industry where we did huge amounts of trade with non-EU countries, EU membership just doesn’t seem to offer very good value for money.

One thing I haven’t seen clarified – what, exactly, are we voting to leave? Just the EU? The EEA as well? EFTA? ECHR?

Because if it’s only the EU, that’s not going to affect things like migration from Europe, is it? That’s covered by the EEA.

(Apologies, I did try looking to see if this has already been covered, but gave up)

My missus has had the opportunity to live and work outside the EU, and has studied outside the EU.
It really isn’t that difficult.

It bloody well is. You had an opportunity handed on a plate. If you haven’t got that, it’s pretty tough.

Not 100% on this, but as the UK is not a member of Schengen we have complete control over our borders, don’t we? Immigration not a problem.
Free movement of workers for EU residents might be a different kettle of fish.

Yes we do. However there is one chink in the armour so to speak, what about the common border we share with ROI? At present theres no issue but should we vote to leave thats going to be a massive headache.

Thats the thing with this, it has massive implications for more than just the SE. Is that another keg we fancy lighting back up if we have to turn it into a proper manned border with the associated bad feeling attached?

As someone else commented earlier it would be nice to hear the opinions of more than just the English and Scots on this (though I dare say NI and Wales will fail to surprise)

@Klunk it really is my pleasure. It’s the ECJ precedent on the EU HR bill which means we cannot deport people due to spurious defences like the right to a family life.

To the extent this has any meaning (the ECHR is not a creation of the EU, nor is it a bill, obviously), it’s incorrect.

what about the common border we share with ROI? At present theres no issue but should we vote to leave thats going to be a massive headache.

It’s already the subject of an Anglo-Irish Agreement that predated the European Union by decades iirc. It specifically prohibits border controls and immigration restrictions between the two countries. I don’t think the status of the Irish-UK border has been changed at all as a result of the eu. If anything, it would make life difficult for Ireland because they wouldn’t be allowed to be in Schengen (if they wanted to).

Edit: I was partially wrong. It looks like border controls can be established and although there was no immigration control cbange because of the EU, customs control was dropped.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area

@Mrmo – Er, yes it is, it’s the ECHR that is nothing to do with the EU…

@ninfan, misread the point the kipper was making, not deporting criminals etc is ECHR not ECJ. i.e., nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with Winston Churchill…..