EU Referendum – are you in or out?

But what would be the point?

Do you need me to answer that for you?

Do you need me to answer that for you?

Please do, from what I’ve read, you’re either brain dead or a non-dom..

Which is it?

Please do, from what I’ve read, you’re either brain dead or a non-dom..

Which is it?

An ellipsis has three dots.

Which is it?

Well, he’s certainly not living in Ramsbottom.

Well, he’s certainly not living in Ramsbottom

And has resorted to pointing out petty grammatical corrections rather than making a valid point.

… Makes you laugh.

The Labour Party carries out it’s policy which it always said it would, and we get two pages of ridiculous speculation as to their motives. Is it at all possible that there is not some conspiracy, and that they always intended on doing so as they very clearly said they would?

You can argue about the timing and whether it would have been better or worse to do it earlier, but you can’t now argue that they are closet hard brexiteers as they have unambiguously declared themselves against that.

They have declared “themselves” against no deal… but the leadership still say they want Hard Brexit. If they can’t get a Labour Hard Brexit, they will support us having a say over a Tory Hard Brexit.

That front benchers feel free to say that they, and the leader, will support Remain (against a Tory Hard Brexit), if it ever comes to it, is to be welcomed with open arms. But policy is still to try and get “a” customs union and a “close” relationship with the Single Market, as non-EU members, with no FoM. There is still an opening there for May to get Labour support for her deal, with those two things being added to the “Political Declaration setting out the framework for the future relationship between the European Union and the United Kingdom“… and then no public vote on that. I don’t see May being that flexible though… despite their positions being so close in reality… so… fingers crossed.

Matthew 7:16

And you know this stuff about Corbyn being an intractable dictator unwilling to listen to or adopt the collective view even if he personally disagrees with it? You can put Brexit in the same box as nuclear weapons.

He’s lost MPs, and many still in the party where threatening to jump ship, or form a new “grouping” inside the party, including his deputy leader. He’s being dragged to it… and he isn’t even there yet. Clive Lewis (a strong supporter of Corbyn on nearly everything) said he was very disappointed with the vagueness of the meeting of MPs this evening… as what was said did not propose/support a Remain option, even if a referendum is supported at some point.

If you missed me banging on about sorting your medical supplies, if they are life maintaining… here we go one more time… compare these two paragraphs…

Local stockpiling is unnecessary and could cause shortages in other areas, which could put patient care at risk. It is important that patients order their repeat prescriptions as normal and keep taking their medicines as normal.

While we never give guarantees, we are confident that, if everyone – including suppliers, freight companies, our international partners, and the health and care system – does what they need to do, the supply of medicines and medical products should be uninterrupted in the event of exiting the EU without a deal.

… from here :

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-medicines-and-medical-products-supply-as-we-exit-the-eu

but the leadership still say they want Hard Brexit. If they can’t get a Labour Hard Brexit,

Utter nonsense. totally the opposite of the consistent statements.

Thanks Kelvin. Have passed that onto my family who seem to be getting it into their remorseful leaver thick heads that May will happily sail us off the cliff for the sake of her party.

Utter nonsense. totally the opposite of the consistent statements.

You don’t expect facts to change their minds, do you? The irony is that they have more in common with the ERG than anything else.

If the result of the second ref was remain, they could hardly be going against the will of the people. Doesn’t make sense, but then, it doesn’t have to these days

Yeah but you know how it will be spun.

(And 70% a leave constituency won’t see it like that as they already voted.)

They have declared “themselves” against no deal… but the leadership still say they want Hard Brexit. If they can’t get a Labour Hard Brexit, they will support us having a say over a Tory Hard Brexit.

That’s ridiculous.

Sounds like a thick of it script extract.

The Labour Party carries out it’s policy which it always said it would, and we get two pages of ridiculous speculation as to their motives. Is it at all possible that there is not some conspiracy, and that they always intended on doing so as they very clearly said they would?

Sense.

Timing has been a question of Parliament and party politics.

but the leadership still say they want Hard Brexit.

Can you point us to where the Labour party leadership have said they want a hard Brexit, no didn’t think so.

Sigh – “Hard Brexit” means outside the Single Market and the Customs Union, and the Labour proposals, that rule out freedom of movement of workers, mean precisely that. And the policy is still to chase a Labour version of Hard Brexit before going anywhere near any kind of public vote if, and only if, they fail to get their own vision of a Hard Brexit.

Defeating “no deal” Brexit is nearly everyone’s aim… but both leaderships are chasing a Hard Brexit, with a sensible transition/implemention period to it. EEA or a Norway, or Swiss style relationship that lets us operate in the Single Market is ruled out by both. Staying in the Customs Union also ruled out by both.

“A” customs union is just the customs arrangement/facilitation that was May’s policy, ’till she had to try and put it in a document for scrutiny by people who know what they are taking about.

A “close” relationship with the Single Market, is just the “frictionless trade” but outside the Single Market that was May’s policy, ’till she was told that without keeping free movement of people it could not and would not happen.

Sounds like a thick of it script extract.

I don’t disagree. I’m just repeating (current) Labour policy for you, as we keep being told it. Hopefully something will actually move now we have a signal that Labour (and ex-Labour) MPs have promoted a very welcome shift in tone from the Labour front bench.

Is their most recent manifesto irrelevant, yes or no?

Hold the front page. “Political party fails to honour manifesto pledge”.

As has been pointed out many, many times; Corbyns ‘policy’ of pursuing ‘a labour Brexit’ is just red unicorns, and as utterly nonsensical, cakist and ridiculous as anything Boris Johnson espoused, and would be immediately rejected by the EU

Once again, for the 17,938th time on this thread: The 4 freedoms of the EU are indivisible

Thats it!

It really is that simple.

So it’s freedom of movement, and the rest that goes with it, or its nothing. No cherrypicking. You want a customs union? You want access to the single market? Then accept freedom of movement

Jezza won’t. So all else is academic

Corbyn knows this is non-negotiable, yet still he peddles the myth that this is an option

You have to be pretty hard of thinking not to see that he’d be laughed out of Brussels in 2 minutes flat, and we’d therefore be heading for a no deal Brexit. He knows this full well

Ergo: He’s a hard brexiteer

He wants a no deal Brexit. He just doesn’t want the blame for th chaos it would cause. Hence being perfectly happy to see it happen, as he’ whipped his MPs to facilitate it at every turn, but he wants to be able to point the finger at someone else when the blame is being metered out

He’s a liar, a fraud and a charlatan, who’s as dishonest, self-serving and disingenuous as Boris Johnson

Funnily enough thats not what the EU back channels have said about labour discussions. Give me a quote where labour policy is that FOM must be stopped – once again when asked to provide the evidence y9u won’t be able to because it is pure nonsense.

It really is astonishing to me how so many of you are so gullible to the constant anti labour propaganda.

This will not be yet another column fantasising about how Labour is run by a cabal of revolutionary grandads all huddled together on some Kremlin-sponsored allotment to plot the downfall of capitalism. It plainly isn’t, although I would pay good money to see that film.

says it all to me.

Wasn’t there an amendment to an amendment on the 29th of Jan by Labour (backbench) for an option of a 2nd ref that Soubry voted against?

I can’t reconcile the timeline any longer.

It really is astonishing to me how so many of you are so gullible to the constant anti labour propaganda.

But he’s a secret ERG sponsored nazi plotting the communist revolution with his totalitarian grip on the Labour Party. Can you really not see that?

Just for you Uncle Jezza as you seem to be going LA-LA-LA..I’M NOT LISTENING!!!

Labour party position on Brexit – from the Labour Party Website:

Immigration

Labour offers fair rules and reasonable management of migration. In trade negotiations our priorities favour growth, jobs and prosperity. We make no apologies for putting these aims before bogus immigration targets.

Freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union. Britain’s immigration system will change, but Labour will not scapegoat migrants nor blame them for economic failures.

Happy now? Pretty unambiguous that, isn’t it? So therefore… you know… red unicorns…

Give me a quote where labour policy is that FOM must be stopped

Go and watch any interview with any member of the Labour front bench where they are asked about this.

You want a customs union?… Then accept freedom of movement

Factually incorrect.

Corbyn still wants Brexit

Youre very naive if you don’t see this as a panicked response to millions of voters deserting them for Chukka & co.

Westminster voting intention (ft. TIG):

CON: 36% (-2)
LAB: 23% (-3)
TIG: 18% (+4)
LDEM: 6% (-1)

via @YouGov
Fieldwork before today's announcement.
Chgs. w/ 19 Febhttps://t.co/folJ0Br2iQ

— Britain Elects (@britainelects) February 25, 2019

But the offer of a 2nd referendum is too late to make any difference, the likes of Gardiner on Newsnight yesterday saying the exact opposite of what he’s been saying for months & months is hard to square.

The time for Labour to do this was after their confidence motion in the government failed, not a few weeks before Brexit day.

True @ransos… “a” customs union is undefined, so some kind of customs arrangement without FoM is entirely possible… …it won’t give us what the actual Customs Union gives us though, and only once it’s fleshed out will we know what the trades off will be, and if the EU will acccept it, and if nonEU partners will accept it (will we be signing our own new trade deals or be included in new EU trade deals, etc… how will regulatory and tariff aspects of trade deals be separated… etc).

Red unicorns, comrade?

It really is astonishing to me how so many of you are so gullible to the constant anti labour propaganda

I’m astonished that you can’t see that Corbyn is making the party unelectable without any real help from “Goebbelian Propaganda” as Galloway likes to put it.

If Corbyn enables Brexit, then we need to slash corporation tax, slash public health spending and social care, get in bed with the yanks even more than we are and make ourselves useful to the far flung disparate friends that we have left by spending 3-4 percent of our GDP on the Royal **** Navy.

Corbyn is the last person I’d want managing Brexit. In a no deal Brexit scenario, deranged lunatics like Mogg are probably actually the right people to have at the helm – not someone who is going to cause the yanks to embargo us like Cuba.

Red unicorns, comrade?

Yep, better to carry on with the abuse than admit you’re wrong.

Your wasting your time raybanwomble

Its a cult. No criticism of the glorious leader will be tolerated, and no actual evidence will be considered before praising St Jeremy, Freedom Fighter and National Hero

Have you seen the latest tractor production figures, comrade?

> wasting time – forget it <

Your wasting your time raybanwomble

Its a cult. No criticism of the glorious leader will be tolerated, and no actual evidence will be considered before praising St Jeremy, Freedom Fighter and National Hero

Have you seen the latest tractor production figures, comrade?

Yep, better to carry on with the abuse than admit you’re wrong.

How is that abuse? Starting to realise you may just be trolling.

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. Repeated ageism and references to fantasist communism is all meant kindly.

Ageism?

Go on…..? I’m intrigued now?….

I’m astonished that you can’t see that Corbyn is making the party unelectable without any real help from “Goebbelian Propaganda” as Galloway likes to put it.

Whereas I’m not at all astonished that you called me an anti-semite and then ran away rather than explain yourself.

ageism?

Go on…..? I’m intrigued now?….

Sorry, my mistake. The references to “magic grandpa” were a compliment.

Now, are you going to admit you were wrong about a customs union?

But if Labour choose the new vote question, are they going for their Brexit version, remain or what?

Time is running out.