EU Referendum – are you in or out?

Still waiting THM.

I have clearly asked you to set out what the tories end aim is – without posting meaningless platitudes or claiming impossible things are possible – you seem unable to do this.  Why?  Is it because you don’t understand?  Or is it because as the tories themselves admit they have no agreed aim?

Yes we know you like what Barnier says. – ok if you want to take that at face value fair enough esp as you know he was talking about fin service negotiations that you deny will happen too (so we know their starting position on passporting. So good to know there will be negotiations there too)

bsck to the idea that we have no idea what the Uk gov’s position is

1. services included – tick

2. Tariffs?

3. Jurisdiction of ECJ?

We can help, highlight the link, either Ctrl C then Ctrl V or right click Copy then Paste…..

It’s not that hard…

kimbers wrote:

5 things we want
Cake
Unicorns
Sovereignty
Blue passports
The British Empire back circa 1922

pfft

red unicorns
blue unicorns
green unicorns
orange unicorns
invisible unicorns (though we might be prepared to compromise on those, we know how tricky they’ll be)

TJ is doing very well without them

go on try tariffs. Does the UK government have a stated position here? Yes? No?

teamhurtmore wrote:

TJ is doing very well without them
go on try tariffs. Does the UK government have a stated position here? Yes? No?

Does it have a stated position which isn’t contradictory with other parts of its stated position?

In this case yes – hence my comments about JRM

go on try tariffs. Does the UK government have a stated position here? Yes? No?

Post a **** link, tell us what you know or get your leather elbow patches sewn on and go back to teaching geography or whatever it is your doing these days

Come on THM – you are so superior to us mere mortals please tell us ( and the tories) what their negotiating stance is.  the EU would like to know as  would the rest of us.

Superior ? Are you kidding. You kindly agreed with me. We are now in the same boat

We both agree that a clear goal of the UK government is that any deal must include services not just trade and that government ministers are agreed on this. That’s good progress on 30 mins ago

From this we now know which options that the EU are offering can be ruled out. It’s quite staightforward when you take it step by step

Current UK position, if you write it down then you have to start again once you change it

I have asked you to outline what the tories aim is for leaving the EU as you claim you know what it is.  No one else knows this not May nor the EU negotiators but you claim you do.But when asked to outline it you seem unable to do so.  Seems strange to me that you have all this knowledge that no one else is privy to but you wont share it

YOU have told ME part of it. You even quoted it  no need to be shy  no one will accuse you of being a Tory

with effort we could easily agree on more

up to you

Not at all. The answer are easy to find*. TJ has already outlined one of the trickier parts of their plan with quotes to prove it. Jumped straight in at Canada plus plus

*unless of course it’s in your interest to pretend they are not

<span style=”color: #444444; font-size: 12px;”>A good troll garners responses and a very good one garners them from folk who know what they are doing and still respond</span>

I would tend to classify a good troll as one who gets a decent response for minimal effort. Which isnt the case here.

I think its more dunning-kruger.

<span style=”font-size: 12.8px;”>Still waiting THM.</span>

<span style=”font-size: 12.8px;”> </span>

<span style=”font-size: 12.8px;”>I have clearly asked you to set out what the tories end aim is – without posting meaningless platitudes or claiming impossible things are possible – you seem unable to do this.  Why?  Is it because you don’t understand?  Or is it because as the tories themselves admit they have no agreed aim?</span>

Not at all. The answer are easy to find*

*Unless of course you can’t provide your sources for anyone – that means your either not willing to share or it doesn’t exist. Go on….

Are you a man?

@mike read TM’s 11 point letter, seems pretty clear to me. Broad free trade deal (our priorities services and manufacturing – we don’t care about agriculture for example as we can buy much cheaper elsewhere than from the EU), no budget contricutions, outside THE Single Market and THE Customs Union.

The EU want the UK to lay out it’s position in advanve so they can produce a series of “decrees” (negotiating guidelines) saying its not possible. They want the UK  To kake the first public move. So where are the EU’s objectives, their desired “end state” ?

Surprise surprise they’ve said nothing at all about that. All we know is they are desperate for the money and equally keen to kick difficult conversations about happens budget wise from 2021 onwards into the very very long grass

@binners Brexit Ultras ? Tony Benn, Frank Field, Austin Mitchell, Jeremy Corbyn ?

Yep read it, and the chance of getting it…

How did it factor in the assessment that were/were not done, finished, not safe to release?

Thm is correct up to a point. The UK position is clear. We want to have our cake and eat it. Obviously that isn’t possible so we have to decide which is more important. Having. Or eating. Otherwise our negotiators don’t know what to sacrifice and what to hold on to. Unfortunately that decision seems to be being made by Tory self-interest rather than any sense of responsibility or accountability to the electorate. Still, democracy and all that.

Are you a man?

No he’s the Hurtinator – a sophisticated shitpoasting robot sent back through time to ruin the forum for all it’s users!

I thought he was here for us to laugh at his self delusion?  Has to be self delusion ‘cos none of us are buying his shtick

Do you have brown hair?

jambalaya wrote:

@binners Brexit Ultras ? Tony Benn, Frank Field, Austin Mitchell, Jeremy Corbyn ?

You’re referring to the Grauniad article he linked? Yet you don’t appear to have read it. Or if you’ve read it you don’t appear to have comprehended it. Not if you’re suggesting it’s referring to any of the names in your list.

But, oh look, a squirrel.

ISWYDT

Do you have glasses?

Bet he’s got a moustache.

Wearing a hat

@mike Canada got a deal which suited them (they don’t really have a big service sector in terms of “exports”), no ecj, no customs union, no budget payments. Japan looks likely to do a decent deal for them, EU sells them agricultural products, Japan sells cars

Jamba – we have a choiuce – a canada type deal which would exclude financial services or a norway type deal which would – but would involve keeping alignment with all eu rules and paying into the EU

A deal whereby we have free access for financial services but don’t have to obey the rules and can make our own trade deals is simply not possible. It has been categorically ruled out.  the 4 freedoms are indivisible

Also trade in large parts of financial services  must be under EU law – so cannot stay in london unless we remain bound by eu law

Finally we have agreed ( in order to get a transition deal / exit agreement that there will be no regulatory divergence between NI and the EU which is incomnpatible with the sort of brexit you want

Hello brexiteers – reality calling.

I’d love to comment on some of the utter **** bullshit posted on this thread by certain posters but I imagine it’d drop someone I know in the political shite,  he was a career diplomat in the foreign service with over 20yrs of experience (high commission etc) and was the head of a “certain” terrorism crisis management team after 9/11,  he’s also served time as head of UK overseas trade/investment so I figure he knows what he’s talking about. He left the civil service a few years ago yet keeps in touch with many of his old colleagues still in employment and without feeling I am giving too much away as he’s never actually confirmed/denied or told me owt in confidence (I guess I have to say that) from what I can surmise he’s said it will take a generation if not more before this country can say it has recovered from a full exit of the EU.

@aracer btw yes I did read the piece, I was making the point that those people where just as keen on a clean Brexit as any of Mogg, Fox, Johnson etc

Just comprehension you have a problem with then (hint, just in case you’re actually going to engage with the discussion: Fox is mentioned in the article).

Are you a man? No he/she/they are Devo

If nothing else this debacle is proving we need EU politicians because ours are hopeless.

Who in there right mind voted for Mogg, Gove, Johnson, Dorres etc? They are clowns.

Jambas – the European Commission published their own analysis on why Canada doesn’t work for Brexshit in past few days. Fortunately they do not live in a monochrome black v white world

Very clear from their level playing field analysis that they are very worried about regulatory and tax arbitrage from – no not Ireland – but a near neighbour like the UK. This gives the UK strong bargaining power.

“Managed divergence” to become the new buzz words

(TJ thanks)

<span style=”color: #444444; font-size: 12px;”>we don’t care about agriculture for example as we can buy much cheaper elsewhere</span>

Balls to the farming industry and the nearly 100,000 workers in them, eh Jamba?