EU Referendum – are you in or out?

THM, you seem to think “respect the vote” is a complete, coherent and credible plan. I have a clue for you. It isn’t.

Anyone want a link to the killfile?  Why you guys continue to engage with  THM is beyond me. His ” I’m clever than you ” shtick is looking more and ridiculous as it becomes even more obvious he doesn’t have a clue -even about financial services where he pretends he works

There is still not even a decision from May and co of what they want as an endpoint – just meaningless platitudes and wishful thinking saying they will have outcomes that clearly are impossible.  The way they are going now I think in march when the EU have to ratify the withdrawal agreement the EU will refuse to ratify it as the NI border is still not solved and indeed remains insoluble.

Hasn’t that been pushed to October now TJ?

Of course, six months might be enough for EU politicians to get ready for April Fools Day, but everyone else needs to know something far sooner.

I love Merkel mocking may.

Merkel – tell me what you want

May – make me an offer

Merkel – tell me what you want  etc etc

When none of the buffoons in the tory party can yet actually formulate a policy that is agreed between them how can they have a negotiation?

The tories are bluffing Europe with an off suit 7 & 3, and Europe knows it.

<span style=”font-size: 12.8px;”>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/29/angela-merkel-theresa-may-never-tells-wants-brexit/</span&gt;

I haven’t. Kelvin

This little problem is becoming chronic now.

But if you don’t know what they are seeking you could read the papers, check the gov website or listen to the news.

Lol TJ.

if you don’t know what they are seeking

we dont really know because she does not she is getting the best deal she can that will stop the tories imploding and her getting the sack
no one, not her not you,not I knows what this will really look like.
Still its good to see how much faith you have in politicians to deliver on their promises as you used to be scathing of them and if it was say the SNP saying this I imagine your tone would be slightly less reverential

We are going on holiday to the best and warmest destination. Where to I just told you [ as people shout multiple destinations and routes in the background] is essentially where we are.

The tories themselves admit there is no destination decided yet – they are going to have a meeting soon to decide.

that is of course when they will really start to fall out with themselves as 1) what many of hem say they want is simply not possible and 2) what is possible will not satisfy anyone but the rabid outies

“Hold up! Agree that this is the wrong thread, as this has nothing to do with Brexit… but he didn’t handle his condition partly because he couldn’t afford to attend his clinics”

The clinics discussed in the article aren’t everyday diabetic care, they’re where you end up after you’ve been killing yourself for many years. And many years of being told “you will die young if you carry on like this” by every doctor you speak to.

Like I say, I’m sympathetic to how people get there but it’s a bit like smoking heavily for 50 years, getting diagnosed with cancer, keeping on smoking then saying you died because you couldn’t get the day off to go to the doctor. He’s not a good cause celebre.

Even Barnier has no idea what may and co want

He also said that the EU would not be finalising its guidelines for the talks on the future relationship until the EU summit in March. That gave the UK time to “clarify its position”, he said. He said the EU was still waiting for the UK to decide its official position. In the meantime, he would not be giving a “running commentary” on developments in British politics, he said.

And from the Torygraph

“The EU’s chief negotiator Michel Barnier has ruled out special arrangements for financial firms, while specific proposals for mutual recognition drafted by City bosses have also been knocked back by Brussels in recent weeks.”

Which I think rather contradicts THMs assertions that May is making any progress on financial services.  It is of course the obvious position to anyone who understands even a little of how the EU actually works.  You know – the four freedoms are indivisible

But then assertions from tories that actually say nothing and are obvious non starters are nothing new

No it doesn’t but you do have to understand financial services to know that.

The FCA warnings yesterday give another hint on why the  doomsday scenario presented those “who-want-to-remain-and-are-prepared-to-lie-to-achieve-their-goal-of-ignoring-a-democratic-result” are unlikely. Make nice lattes though.

The EU may like to present a hard face but they also know that they lose too especially in fin services and will also compromise. Listening to Newsnight podcast now and sensible point about Barnier’s little porky pie yesterday.

Interesting interview on farming today about frictionless trade and agricultural imports.

sell, sell now, the farmers are ****.

The fca doesn’t sound that positive;

The head of the U.K. Financial Conduct Authority added urgency to Brexit negotiations by saying European governments must reach a transitional agreement for financial services by the end of March to avoid the risks presented by EU departure.

Financial contracts between the U.K. and E.U. worth up to a notional 26 trillion pounds ($36.4 trillion) — particularly those related to derivatives and insurance — may no longer be “serviceable” should an agreement not be in place, FCA Chief Executive Officer Andrew Bailey said Monday in a speech. He warned the effects would be felt in the EU as much as they would in the U.K.

Indeed it isn’t positive. So creating unnecessary noise (both sides) is silly.

Draghi joined in to yesterday with some sense

<span style=”color: #444444; font-size: 12px;”> That says absolutely bloody nothing</span>

It is as meaningless as the “bespoke deal” or “preparing for”.

Of course people are trying to prepare but a)without good information they will be wasting a lot of resources on contingencies and also the plan they come up with may be a load of balls.

A pro-European ex-business minister has called on Theresa May to “get a spine” and remove 35 “hard ideological Brexiteers” from the Tories.

Anna Soubry firing the starting gun the Tory Civil War? I bloody well hope so. This farcical situation has looked unsustainable for god knows how long now, and is doing this country immeasurable damage. Its high time to call out the foaming-at-the-mouth, idealogical nut-jobs who’ve been calling the shots for two long.

She’s right to call them zealots. Thats exactly what they are. And they need putting back in their box before they get to do irreparable harm

Don’t forget the nut jobs are getting noisy because they know that compromises are coming. An extreme version of Brexshit is becoming less likely not more. Hence the noise.

Hopefully so Hurty. Thats what the attacks on the civil service, the media, the judiciary, and pretty much everyone but themselves is about.

They’re apportioning blame for that before it happens, because they know they were selling an undeliverable ‘cake and eat it’ fantasy.

What worries me is that their labelling of everyone who doesn’t believe in their unhinged Empire 2.0 is a traitor/enemy of the people. And Mays cowardice in allowing them to get away with it is unforgivable

The language of the Brexiteers is becoming increasingly nasty, xenophobic and authoritarian. Rees Mogg in particular is a self-serving twonk who doesn’t seem to care less about the repercussions of undermining democratic institutions, as long as it serves his ends

So a back-bencher calls for the sacking of the foreign secretary. That’s going to happen then. Should give a clue as to where the balance of power lies…

I think it’s too late to put them back in.

Every time moggy & co pop up with a fantastical unicorn heavy Brexit promise, the hard core brexies froth a bit more.

It makes Mays job of satisfying them ever harder.

And when DExEU comes up with some numbers admitting that Brexit is a terrible deal for the country, out come the remoaner civil servant conspiracy theories. Which feeds back into the frothing brexies….

All to serve the egos of a few populist nuts who would rather double down on lies than admit they are wrong

<span style=”color: #444444; font-size: 12px;”>All to serve the egos of a few populist nuts who would rather double down on lies than admit they are wrong</span>

Some are populists nuts. Others just have a deep hatred for the EU for whatever reason (Gove is an example of this) and some others fancy taking advantage of the situation to push through their agendas.

Its going to be a very small number of people who end up really pleased with the outcome. Whether because we remain too tightly bound to Europe or not enough.

Question is whats going to happen to all those voters who thought it would signal a change in their favour?

Riots of course.

“Question is whats going to happen to all those voters who thought it would signal a change in their favour?”

Because Brexit is easier and cheaper to implement than remedying forty years of wealth inequality and lack of investment by a party which has absolutely no interest in doing anything to disturb the steady flow of cash upwards.

Good news! The (inner) cabinet are meeting today to start discussing what the UK’s “opening pitch” will be as regards our future relationship with the EU.

TODAY

But, of course, they’ve already made it very clear what that want to replace EU membership with… we’ve voted for it, and everything. Just don’t let “them” know what it is, or it’ll be harder to get what we want in the negotiations.

Riots of course.

That’s a european thing. Tutting. Lots of tutting.

Farage proposed riots I seem to remember.

Sounds about right for Brexies / the far right.

We don’t need to worry about the Retreaters taking to the streets.

Pre and post referendum exactly zero of the **** have been bothered to get their stupid fat arses off the sofa.

I’m not proposing them, just predicting them.

Of course, the “opposition” have also been very clear on what they want to replace EU membership with… people voted for them with full knowledge of that as well…

https://www.ft.com/content/618dbbc4-0740-11e8-9650-9c0ad2d7c5b5

Both Labour and the Tories want a FTA with Europe. Neither view current options as being suitable for our needs – although lots of internal debate within both parties re the sticking points eg FoM, ECJ, transition arrangements and length – so both look for a “bespoke” deal.

Hence the noise. In the meantime we crawl towards a deal. Ironically amusing to see Barnier talking about the inevitable trade disruptions. For someone who represents       several countries who are losers too from this, he seems remarkably relaxed

Neither view current options as being suitable for our needs

That neatly masks the fact that some people in both parties think that current options segregate us from our neighbouring market too much, and other people in both parties think that these same options keep us too closely bound to our neighbouring market. The “agreement” is that nothing has been agreed… nothing is clear. There is no plan for “the people” to agree with… but apparently we have.

Are we “crawling towards a deal” that has been explained to the electorate, or is that taking this “democracy” nonsense a bit too far?

Not sure why you find the concept of negotiations so challenging kelvin

yes of course it’s true on both sides there are differences about where the final lines should be drawn. Cue some expression including Sherlock Holmes

Oh, you are funny.

Block him and move on, Kelvin. Just like the brexiteers, the more he realises fewer people are listening to him, the more a caricature of himself he becomes.

Currently crawling away from a deal

Recent comments completely undermine the commitments given earlier regarding NI so right now its most likely a transition deal even will not happen

Kelvin – zokes has good advice.

Then you miss-understand again kelvin. No humour there, intended or otherwise.

Behind Barniers bluffing, they knowc exactly what we want and vice versa. They also know (1) they can’t deliver it for internal reasons and (2) they can’t allow the Uk to go to a hard Brexshit. So they have a dilemma. Notice how they jumped when TM hinted at HBrex last year?

Hence they fudged NI etc to move on. They need a deal too

now we can fart around pretending that the vote didn’t happen and/or we didn’t mess it up or we can get in with negotiating hard to ensure that we don’t end up with a hard Brexshit  it’s not a tough choice

May seems to get that even if those who can’t accept the  Democratic result can’t