Drugs in pro cycling… what does it mean to you

been watching the threads on here and its a mud slinging type affair, they did this he did that and so it goes on, we all have our take on it
for me lance was my hero, but that now seems tarnished and to be honest im pretty ticked of by it but thats just me, so what does drugs in pro cycling to me now, yes I will still watch the grand tours because I like it, do I ever think I will put my support, faith in to one person/rider again I doubt it, wiggings was great but I think you never know whats going to come out in the future, just my point of view

For me it means nothing other than the inconvenience of having to constantly explain blood doping and EPO to people, and point out that no, of course I don’t take drugs, because I am a mountain biker who doesn’t race.

Dave

Couldn’t give a toss, road bikes are stupid things ridden by people who take themselves far too seriously.

100% agree

they build you up then let you down, thats how it seems to me

What really disappoints me is the half-arsed nature they went about the drug taking. If you’re going to do it, do it properly….

I think they should let everyone take massive amounts of whatever the hell they like and get on with it. It’ll be brill. Loads of experimental, untested pharmaceuticals. We’d soon have dodgy genetic mutations like people growing an extra arm out of the back of their necks, and stuff

So the Tour will take on a kind of WWF or even Robot Wars aspect as they ride alongside each other hitting each other round the heads with frying pans with their extra mutant arms. Or shorter tandem type bikes developed for people who’ve evolved 2 extra legs! Much more fun

Oh and Loddrik +1

I want cycling to be clean and have a harsh testing regime (and penalties) for dopers.

But at the same time as that i dont really care that much about what happened in the past.

Actually my biggest annoyance in recent weeks is how cycling is once again the scapegoat for drugs in sport when other more powerful and wealthy sports the problem is completely ignored and/or covered up.

OTOH, since i’m not a pro and I’m not as fit as I like to be, maybe I should be doping?

all the people I used to love watching seem to have won,or nearly won have taken drugs, the pirate, gurt yan turniser, armstrong, people i used to love watching, get home from work and couldnt wait to put channel 4 on to watch these guys

Not even arsed lad.

It does seem a bit of a double standard that LA is now a pariah whereas Merckx, Hinault etc are lauded as titans of the sport. Thinking about it some more, though, and I realise I’m not even arsed.

Tru dat Omar

**** all.

There has been drugs in the sport since there was money.
The more money the bigger the drugs.
Cycling has accepted this for a very long time.
Armstrong is by no means a victim here just part of it.

Me, i think the sport is clearer now than it EVER has been.
Just look at the current low number of +tests. Yes before some one starts there have been drugs (EPO) that couldn’t be tested for, but we all knew about them, we could see “amazing” rides from otherwise unamazing riders, and overnight recoveries (Landis/lazerus).
In the last 2/3 years that has become a real exeption to the rule and not common place.

I think (hope) that we will look back on this time in maybe 10 years and say thats when things changed for the better.

I love the coverage of the big tours, the scenery the excitment of the moutains, as a kid I always though if im reincanated it would be my dream job, now I just feel let down, now as garry says
im not even arsed who wins

let them all take drugs! it will make it a lot more interesting, and wont last for days!

**** all.

Aye, that one.

Not a lot since it’s nothing new, just a lot more admiration for those that didn’t dope and bullsh1t everyone. Since I did think there were more of them than the handful I can think of right now..

Road bikes are still fun, but then I’ve never done the team-kit thing or followed racing much. It’s just another form of riding. If anytrhing it makes me feel better about what I can do on the alpine cols, knowing the Pro’s times were mostly done with a dope advantage.

if they all took drugs aleast you would know they are all on the same page so to speak,no smoke screens

I think it’s something that everyone turned a blind eye to from competitors right up to sponsors. I also think the situation will now improve if it hasn’t already, and that the UCI could yet implode off the back of it. I think the LA thing was a bit of a witch hunt, regardless of guilt, and I think it is likely to be politically motivated rather than for any love of clean competition.

But most of all it astounds me just how angry people seem to be. If the biggest worry in your life and the thing that gets you so riled up is a guy with shaved legs that you have never met being faster than another guy with shaved legs that you also have never met, then life must have dealt you a pretty kind hand………

An extra 500 watts, big wage, lots of glory and all the best looking podium girls. It’s a pain though having to go to Spain and Italy to see the Doctor and Personal trainer.

milkyman, if you were watching the tour as a kid, surely the doping isn’t news, or is it just the extent of it that’s a suprise? I mean, Pantani, Ulrich etc, they’ve been known as dopers for years.

your right jameso, i just was niaeve I suppose, lance never tested posative etc, and yes I suppose the guys i used to like watching are now classed as cheats,
I was only 16 at the time

Neither did Pantani or Ulirch – se emy last point 😉

It means the start of the sport becoming clean to me

Views like lodders always existed

It has also led to many conversation with people who dont know anything about road cycling [ and not just on threads on here ]

so will you still watch the grand tours, and suport/ follow your fav rider

yes but I just hope we have a generation with clean riders

TBH I was more gutted at Contador than the past as it was well know that they were cheating
I think the last two TdF winners cadel and Wiggins were clean
I am certain there are still cheats in the peleton but they do it in secret now

It does seem a bit of a double standard that LA is now a pariah whereas Merckx, Hinault etc are lauded as titans of the sport.

Agree with that. If LA wasn’t such a ****, I could almost feel sorry for him.

I like Greg Lemond and how he’s stood up for his principles, but he blatantly cheated himself. They reckon those illegal tri bars he used in all the time trials of the 1989 tour gave him and overall advantage of ~45 seconds and he only beat Fignon by 8 secs. Only 3 points of contact allowed, hands, arse and feet. Tri bars include a forth so Fignon was robbed.

i agree papa, fignon was a love hate kind of guy, at the time i hated him, but now i have the upmost respect for the man

Armstrong is still a legend to me. The late tour winner Laurent Fignon talks of drug taking in his autobiograpghy (we were young) and goes into detail about drugs and his shame in taking them. He explains that the drugs don’t make an ordinary rider a champion. I think Armstrong still kicked ass. I dont think he was entirely innocent but I suspect his antics were exagerated due to the amount of enemies he has. “Witch hunt” is probably right to an extent. Surely he must have been clean when he came 3rd in the 2010 tour? Testing must have been so advanced then. He still got his title taken away though.

I was watching the tour from a fairly early age so I know what you mean, I just got cynical pretty fast after reading a bit about the drugs and all that went with pro racing. I did want to believe LA was clean too, did for a few years, but a guy I know who’d raced a bit in Europe years ago was always pretty clear that it was unlikely to be anything more than a farce. Plus, by most accounts heard over the past few yeasr he’s just a nasty piece of work anyway.

If you want cycling heroes to look up to or just real inspiration there’s better places to look that pro road racing imo. Jure Robic perhaps.

Remember that it is an open sport. Some people make a living from cycling, some don’t, but there is no distinction between “amateur” and “pro” in terms of the rules and regulations we race under. So current events in the pro world send an important message for everyone else involved in the sport.

I love the buzz and excitement of road racing (not watching) and have raced on and off as an amateur for 25 years. For me, the challenge is to try and win within the rules of the sport. I don’t have any respect for anyone I race against who doesn’t compete within the rules, and by extension I don’t have much time for pros who cheat. Pro cycling has consistently failed to address the endemic doping culture, and I haven’t been able to take it seriously for the last couple of decades. I think the current situation is the most positive thing to happen to pro cycling in decades (perhaps ever?). Doping won’t disappear, but perhaps there is an opportunity to really take it seriously for the first time. That means we might actually have an apex to the sport that we can respect and which is worth aspiring to.

If you don’t think doping matters, try a wee thought experiment; Rider A and Rider B are racing towards the finish line of an alpine climb. No-one is looking, so Rider A reaches over and pushes Rider B into the ditch and rides to victory. Good racing? Acceptable or not?
If it’s not acceptable to break the rules in this way, you surely must agree that it is also unacceptable for Rider A to gain an advantage by taking prohibited performance enhancers. And for anyone who comes out with the dreadful “level playing field” argument, would you only level the playing field for drugs? Why not allow riders to swing punches at each other or do anything else they like?

The sport exists within a framework of rules. These may change and evolve with time, but racing is all about testing yourself and achieving your best within that framework. There have to be sanctions for competitors who break those rules, and they have to be enforced.

He explains that the drugs don’t make an ordinary rider a champion.

No. He said EPO could turn a donkey into a race horse and one of the reasons he retired was the ludicrously high speeds of the peloton towards the end of his career.

as Kimmage said, nothing wrong with cycling that some honesty wont sort out.

+ 1 for Omar

He explains that the drugs don’t make an ordinary rider a champion.

He didnt

I think Armstrong still kicked ass

Not really pre drugs [ if there was a time and there is an entire thread on this – just part of the myth he would have won clean anyway- we have no way of knowing if this is true but his non drug results suggest it is unlikely.

I dont think he was entirely innocent

Understatement of the day for someone who is as guilty as guity can be

but I suspect his antics were exagerated due to the amount of enemies he has.

Like hincappie for example?

there is no denying LA was not alone in doing it but his adverts about it being about the bike, the denials, the suing of folk who said he doped the threats to people who spoke out the treatment of Simeone and others meant there would always be a “witch hunt” as he was clearly the one who got away with it all and carried on his lies his denials and his bullying even after he stopped riding. i would not call this a witch hunt i would call it a long road to justice due to his power and his influence and his conspiracy to cover up

I was disappointed at how banal the cheating was in the end, I’d assumed he was probably guilty (despite owning a fair bit of ‘livestrong’ kit in the past) but had thought that we would be looking at a complex system of doping way beyond other teams.

Finding out a lot of it was hiding from testers and pretending to be out of the house has left me wondering just how useless the regime was and how many other ‘semi-smart’ dopers have got through the system.

Its also led me to question if the sport really is ‘cleaner’ today – all the riders claim it is but so what – most of the teams include ex-dopers and its the same inept governing body.

All a bit sad really.

I think it’s an amazing sport, I love to watch the one day races the big stages of the grand tours. I appreate the effort and skills it takes to ride at that level from my own spins, hills etc that will never come close to what I’m watching on TV but can be so tough but hats why I love the road bike as opposed to the buzz of a swoopy Singletrack trail.

I suspected that doping but was surprised at the level (which is daft really) but those were the tours I grew up watching.I hope it gets tough one strike you’re out, start line testing etc etc.

What does boil my wee is the assumption it’s just cycling ? I’ll bet if you went through football rugby etc you’d nail a load of people.

I’ll bet if you went through football rugby etc you’d nail a load of people.

Tennis as well – Andy Murray was quoted earlier this week as saying he’d been out of competition tested three times in his career. Most pro riders get more OOC tests than that in a season!
Football just has the money to cover it all up and a very lax testing regime with players routinely told in advance of any tests and sudden “injuries” keeping them at home for that days training session…

Once again, cycling is the scapegoat for it all. As to what it means to me…you know how when you’re “a cyclist” you get neighbours, work colleagues etc asking for advice on what bike/biking kit they should buy? Well those kind of conversations always end up with “Lance this, Lance that…blah blah blah” and I just get fed up of listening to someone elses ill-informed opinion on it all. 😉

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

It starts in 1886…

It isn’t new…

Honestly could not give a shit. As I’m never likely to cycle competitively it doesn’t bother me at all.

Just look at the current low number of +tests

Microdosing, smaller blood bags, training camps in remote locations…

Surely he must have been clean when he came 3rd in the 2010 tour? Testing must have been so advanced then

No way. Why would he have changed the habit of a lifetime? Plus, Mike Ashenden is convinced his blood data shows clear signs of manipulation (less than one in a million chance of it NOT being, according to him).

if they all took drugs aleast you would know they are all on the same page

But Armstrong was paying Ferrari more than most cyclists are even paid. It’s not a level playing field even if everyone is cheating, because some people respond better to the drugs, and importantly – some people can afford a much more comprehensive programme.

What does it all mean to me? I ADORE the sport, and I desparately want it to clean up. I walked away from it for a few years after the Hamilton and Tyler busts, creeping back with some trepidation in the last few years as more and more stuff was exposed. Now we’re at a turning point… either the current regime crumbles, and things radically change, or the fat old men running the UCI somehow hang on and we end up with a sport in freefall, gradually turning into something sub-pro-wrestling.

Either way, I’ll still be there by the roadside. Hell, I love watching it. But I’ll be SO much happier if I can start to believe it again. Right now, I don’t believe in it, and that includes Sky’s miraculous performance this year.

It also means enough to me to have made two donations so far to the Paul Kimmage defence fund (which to my joy looks like turning into the ATTACK fund, and good luck to him). Back when I was fooled by it all, in the early Armstrong domination years, I used to think he and Walsh were bitter and twisted sensationalists. If I ever meet them I’ll give them a very heartfelt apology and make sure they don’t get near their wallets in the pub all evening.

Don’t care a toss.those responsible for any bad rep are as much the press as any one. Some people feel they are let down. How? the pro’s don’t promise anything to you.