Forum menu
Starmer should not have offered Trump a second state visit, in line with existing protocol, but the invitation cannot be reasonably withdrawn now imo.
It doesn't need to be withdrawn, it just needs to be delayed. King's health concerns etc etc...
It's the thing Trump wants most from us. Well, he's learning actions have all sorts of consequences.
So is the King not going to carry out his head of state duties for the next four years claiming poor health just to delay a Trump state visit? That's what would be required because otherwise the humiliation of the Trump administration being told that the King is unwell whilst he carries on as normal would be just as bad, if not worse, than withdrawing the invitation.
It is one thing not to offer Trump a second state visit which he would never have expected anyway because it is unprecedented, and publicly humiliating him before the world by either withdrawing the invitation or simply ignoring it.
Starmer's advisors screwed up, they can't backtrack. The best we can hope for is huge anti-Trump demonstrations during his state visit. The government obviously won't like that but it's them that ****ed up.
This is what the US has been working on with Vietnam for a decade
U.S.-Vietnam relations have become increasingly cooperative and comprehensive, evolving into a flourishing partnership that spans political, economic, security, and people-to-people ties. Relations are guided by the 2023 U.S.-Vietnam Comprehensive Strategic Partnership (CSP), an overarching framework for advancing the bilateral relationship, and built on preceding Joint Statements issued over the previous ten years by the two countries’ leaders
https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-vietnam/
This is what President Trump has achieved in a few weeks
HANOI, April 14 (Reuters) - China's President Xi Jinping on Monday called for stronger ties with Vietnam on trade and supply chains amid disruptions caused by U.S. tariffs, as he kicked off a three-nation trip to Southeast Asia in the Vietnamese capital of Hanoi.
The visit, planned for weeks, comes as Beijing faces 145% U.S. duties, while Vietnam is negotiating a reduction of threatened U.S. tariffs of 46% that would otherwise apply in July after a global moratorium expires.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/chinas-xi-meet-vietnam-leaders-kick-off-southeast-asia-tour-amid-us-tariffs-2025-04-14/
Not to mention this gem
But now that President Donald Trump has rocked relationships with Europe established after World War Two, and turned to energy as a bargaining chip in trade negotiations, businesses are wary that reliance on the United States has become another vulnerability.
Against this backdrop, executives at major EU firms have begun to say what would have been unthinkable a year ago: that importing some Russian gas, including from Russian state giant Gazprom...
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/back-russian-gas-trump-wary-eu-has-energy-security-dilemma-2025-04-14/
It's not realisticaly sustainable... back to the UK car export thing... If a '100k UK' car costs US citizens '120k' already due to 'luxury tax', than an additional 10% tariff on top of that (I presume the tax will be stacked) would mean that 100k car now costs, what, 132k for an american citizen to buy it?
I can only dream, but if I was spending that much money on a car, I'd be looking at some Italian exotica, not a Morgan or whatever.
Trouble is that like most cars now the Italian exotica is way more expensive than you think the Lamborghini suv (yuk) starts from $240k and the nice stuff $280k
100k isn’t wow territory anymore 🙁
I wonder what additional back tracking goes on this week. An awful lot of stuff comes out of China. Went to Portmeirion a couple of weeks ago, saw some mugs on sale - but MrsF checked their on-line store and they were 25% cheaper than in store. For those that don't know Portmeirion sell a range of pottery as well as being famous for 'The Prisoner".
Saved us carrying them round so ordered on line (bonkers really). "Made in China" it says on the bottom !
It is one thing not to offer Trump a second state visit which he would never have expected anyway because it is unprecedented, and publicly humiliating him before the world by either withdrawing the invitation or simply ignoring it.
Given the humiliation he has piled on himself and the damage he's done to international relations, I don't care how he takes it if we delay the visit. What else is he going to do? Have another tariff tantrum? Push us towards other more reliable allies and trading partners?
He's upended the world order and should be firmly in the FAFO stage of the process.
There was an interesting article published a few years ago (can't find the original, but it is currently being re-hashed by a number of publications) about the manufacture of the iPhone, and the time Obama asked Steve Jobs how much it would cost to build the iPhone in the USA. Jobs explained to Obama that it wasn't simply a question of assembly cost. The entire complex integrated manufacturing chain required to build an iPhone (production engineers and project managers, logistics, components suppliers, etc, etc) had moved to China. Jobs nearly pulled the launch with a month to go, after his prototype plastic screened phone was badly scratched by they keys in his pocket. The Apple team immediately flew to China where they were met by a team of engineers who developed a new production ready glass screen solution in a couple of weeks. The Chinese had all the experts, suppliers and infrastructure available to do this at short notice.
Replacing the manufacturing environment required to compete with that is a complex, long term problem that will take years to fix and won't be solved overnight by mad tariffs. US consumers started grumbling about expensive iPhones and Trump has u-turned almost immediately.
So is the King not going to carry out his head of state duties for the next four years claiming poor health just to delay a Trump state visit?
My understanding is Trump doesn’t have an invitation for a state visit, he has an invitation for Tea so that Charles can discuss arrangements for a proposed state visit. I don’t think Charles is immune to saying we would love to have you for a visit assuming of course there is special trading relationship / political stability in Ukraine / we hear nothing more about Greenland / Vance apologises for meddling in UK woman’s rights.
More likely the computer said "No" and there aren't enough properly trained and empowered staff to deal with the fall out from the rejections.
you're missing the point that only married women who use their married name have to make a paper application. Males or women with their maiden names can use the on-line system
whilst many more women will be affected by this - presumably it does affect men who have changed their names (or at least changed their names during their working career?) too? Whilst many more women change their names - there’s a lot of people who’s official “passport name” today does not match their “birth certificate name” and they aren’t all women.
Replacing the manufacturing environment required to compete with that is a complex, long term problem that will take years to fix and won't be solved overnight by mad tariffs. US consumers started grumbling about expensive iPhones and Trump has u-turned almost immediately.
TBF trumps skills weren’t in manufacturing 🙂
Funny enough you also have an issue with staffing these factories, as the experts/engineers with the practical knowledge are in China.
I don’t think your interpretation of what is permitted is correct. Eg, if Musk posts “no better time to buy Tesla shares
It might break a different law but it wouldnt be insider trading in the US sense. It cant be insider trading if you post it on twitter since then its publicly available (assuming its a large well known company and the official account).
You might be breaking some other laws especially around when reports are published but thats separate from insider trading.
Funny enough you also have an issue with staffing these factories, as the experts/engineers with the practical knowledge are in China.
Which was something Biden tried to address with the CHIPS act.
Something Trump ermmm wants to get rid off and use the money for paying off pornstars or maybe debt.
So they're asking for more people to work in high tech manufacturing AND more people to work in low skill manual jobs (to replace the immigrants) and they don't want immigration. So who's going to do these jobs?
I don’t think Charles is immune to saying we would love to have you for a visit assuming of course there is special trading relationship / political stability in Ukraine / we hear nothing more about Greenland / Vance apologises for meddling in UK woman’s rights.
I am sure he isn't, it would hardly enhance UK-US relations though. Trump has been given a handwritten letter from the King inviting him to discuss a second state visit, this was a mistake on several levels imo including the fact that a second state visit of this sort is unprecedented and Trump had no reason to expect the invitation.
However it is not reasonable to expect the UK government to now withdraw the invitation (which they should never have made). Yes they could withdraw it if they wanted to, yes they could simply not proceed forward with it, yes the King could demand all sorts of conditions which Trump won't agree to, but that would be simply another mistake to a self inflicted mess which Starmer created. I don't see the point of piling one mistake on top of another.
Plus of course let's not forget that there is zero chance of the government actually doing any of that.
I did sign kimbers petition calling for the invitation to be withdrawn and offered to Zelensky instead btw, but that was to register my disapproval, I never expected it to do anymore than that. And when the second visit eventually takes place I will be doing exactly the same as I did during Trump's first state visit when the other Tories were in government, joining anti-Trump demonstrations in London.
you're missing the point that only married women who use their married name have to make a paper application. Males or women with their maiden names can use the on-line system
unless it changed since last year, that’s certainly not the whole story. My mother applied online with no trouble.
used her married name, no issues.
maybe you have had problems, but it’s not a blanket policy.
and as an aside, photo id required for voting can be obtained for free. You don’t need a passport.
I do agree.. Regarding the state visit.. Rather than cancelling, a perpetual sick note /schedule clash from Charles, and Starmer to do similar... Too busy dealing with domestic issues etc. So it never actually happens.
Path of least resistance and maintaining an air of deplomacy so as not to burn bridges.
However it is not reasonable to expect the UK government to now withdraw the invitation (
It absolutely is reasonable. The invite was made before Zelenskys Oval Office ambush, before the deportations with no legal process, before the tariffs trashed international trade.
It is absolutely reasonable to use the diplomatic option of withdrawing or delaying his visit to show our revulsion at him and his policies. There is no special relationship to protect any more.
Trump and his US government need putting on the international diplomacy equivalent of the naughty step. To pretend that we "just can't" because he won't like it is, frankly, bizarre.
Well I don't think it is reasonable to expect the UK government to withdraw the invitation but good luck if you think Starmer might.
That's very conservative of you Ernie. 😉
Sorry about the cross thread dig. 🙂 I agree with you, a cancellation would be a pointless snub and an opportunity to flatter and negotiate lost.
Well I don't think it is reasonable to expect the UK government to withdraw the invitation but good luck if you think Starmer might.
What worse thing than the current shit show do you think will happen if the UK withdraws the invite?
Apply the same tarifs to the UK as the EU or even China, and withdraw even more support from Ukraine.
Hell hath no fury like a Trump scorned, MCTD. Ukraine and tarifs are too important to get get petty with Trump.
Yes, as much as I'd like to see the RAF blow Trumps plane out of the sky the second it enters UK airspace, and then blame a 'radar glitch', it's not the correct path.
Diplomacy sometimes means holding your tongue. Perpetual delay and subterfuge is the name of the game, here, IMO.
Apply the same tarifs to the UK as the EU or even China, and withdraw even more support from Ukraine.
And he will do that as he pleases whether his ass is kissed or if he is insulted.
Unless you have some evidence that treating Trump "diplomatically" brings a different response than what he intends to do anyway, I am not seeing any.
Although personally I wouldn't mind if he has his state visit, and Charlie admonishes him for his "disrespectful" appearance, painting his gormless face orange on a state visit would be more disrespectful than a wartime leader not wearing a suit to the white house 😉
Not necessarily, MSP. Lose/lose situations are often born of irrational feelings. The word that came into my head when Trump started trade warring with Canada was "spite". Both sides were clearly going to lose. I've just Googled "Trump spite" and this is the first result:
It's clear Im not alone in my thinking. Trump is quite capable of penalising the UK for the slight of a cancelled visit out of spite even if it damages the US as much as the UK.
IMO the error Zelensky has made is not licking Trump's boots enough. He's a bit too proud for his own good and hasn't been flattering Trump's ego enough. Being right or wrong doesn't really matter, arse licking does.
He's a bit too proud for his own good and hasn't been flattering Trump's ego enough. Being right or wrong doesn't really matter, arse licking does.
I think I'd rather be accused of being proud than lick Trumps arse.
All Trump wants from Ukraine is the rare earth minerals, and he'll **** over the whole country to achieve that. Licking his arse just delays the inevitable.
What worse thing than the current shit show do you think will happen if the UK withdraws the invite?
I think you might have misunderstood the point I am making. I couldn't give a monkeys if Trump's second state visit invitation to the UK is withdrawn**. I don't however believe that it is reasonable to expect Starmer to do that.
Firstly because there is zero chance that Starmer will, and secondly because his entire strategy for dealing with Trump has been to sycophantically shower him with patronising shite.
Publicly snubbing Trump before the world by withdrawing the invitation would be an even bigger mistake for Starmer than the mistake he made in inviting him.
Starmer is trying to cultivate this mythical "special relationship" and the "United States is our closest ally" bollocks, personally I would much rather he didn't and instead treated the United States as the dangerous bully it has always been.
Hopefully the second Trump presidency will be the long overdue wake-up call that the UK (and much o the Western World) has needed. Because of the sheer economic power of the United States global realignments and adjustments will take time. But no country should have that much power and now is the time to deal with the issue.
**Although there is absolutely no reason to unnecessarily antagonise the United States/Trump imo.
IMO the error Zelensky has made is not licking Trump's boots enough.
I strongly dissagree with that.. Trump tried to back Zelensky into a corner, typical bully tactics.
Zelensky was rightly having none of it... how would it have looked back in Ukraine if thier leader was metaphoricaly getting bum raped, and selling out live on TV? it was never an option.
I have a lot of respect for Zelensky, and a lot less than zero respect for the USA at the moment.
Bully's never learn until they are taught a hard lesson. And Trump is due some education.
What worse thing than the current shit show do you think will happen if the UK withdraws the invite?
Publicly snubbing Trump before the world by withdrawing the invitation would be an even bigger mistake for Starmer than the mistake he made in inviting him.
I agree... I suspect we both agree on more things than we might let on!
The invite has gone out, and it would be a bad move to simply cancel it... it's a question of damage limitation now, the orange turd shouldn't ever be allowed to set foot in the UK ever again on official business.
So it's a question of how starmer prevents it in the most gentle way possible.
And why the **** did charles send the **** a personal invite? had he been at camillas private supply of cuban cigars and vintage whisky that evening?
Zelensky was rightly having none of it...
Bully's never learn until they are taught a hard lesson.
What lesson do you think Zelensky taught Trump?
If we are talking about the ill-fated press conference I don't think that Zelensky needed to lick anyone's boots.
He also didn't need to have a spat with Trump whilst it was being televised to the whole world, that was never going to do Zelensky any favours. Nor should he have taken JD Vance's bait.
Zelensky could have just kept quiet. As indeed had the King of Jordan had at a press conference a while earlier when Trump was talking bollocks about ethnically cleansing Gaza and developing it as a seaside resort. Jordan had already rejected out of hand Trump's plan and there was no point the King having a public row with Trump at the press conference.
And why the * did charles send the * a personal invite?
Because the Prime Minister had told him to?
And why the * did charles send the * a personal invite?
Because the Prime Minister had told him to?
Oh, I'm sorry, did I miss the part where Starmer forced Charles hand, to sign a letter? If you sign your name, it's on you.
Charles could have simply told Starmer he didn't want to get involved, and that would have been that.
Zelensky was rightly having none of it...
Bully's never learn until they are taught a hard lesson.
What lesson do you think Zelensky taught Trump?
If we are talking about the ill-fated press conference I don't think that Zelensky needed to lick anyone's boots.
He also didn't need to have a spat with Trump whilst it was being televised to the whole world, that was never going to do Zelensky any favours. Nor should he have taken JD Vance's bait.
Zelensky could have just kept quiet.
He was representing his country, you know that sovereignity thing that brexiteers keep banging on about, but not really understanding what it means...? 😉
Oh, I'm sorry, did I miss the part where Starmer forced Charles hand, to sign a letter?
Well it's going to blow your mind when you hear how Starmer forced the King to deliver an entire speech.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-32816450
Oh, I'm sorry, did I miss the part where Starmer forced Charles hand, to sign a letter?
Well it's going to blow your mind when you hear how Starmer forced the King to deliver an entire speech.
Genuine question - how does that translate into the king sending a personal invite to trump? the king (or queen) just ratifies the goverment du jours' general agenda? Charlie could have just said to starmer...
"do what you want on behalf of the UK as PM? "
There doesn't seem to be any requirement or precident for a personal letter from Charles to Trump. that's optional?
Liz Truss… wrong about pretty much everything.
Theres a good article in the Times today, by William Hague, on the folly of Trump arrogantly and thoughtlessly starting a trade war with China that he can’t possibly win, as he’s now finding out
Trump’s policy on China is a strategic blunder
Hmmm that deporting some bloke with a court order say they shouldn’t be deported is still rumbling on.
el-Salvador saying they can’t send him back but would if US facilitate ,US side digging heels in on not bringing him back.
Bully's never learn until they are taught a hard lesson. And Trump is due some education.
Going by previous episodes the only lesson he’s learnt is to this time to surround himself with people loyal to him.
I’m not sure Donald’s the learning type tbh, the only lesson to be learnt is by other countries seeing a once proud country transition into a dictatorship or attempt to.
It's clear Im not alone in my thinking. Trump is quite capable of penalising the UK for the slight of a cancelled visit out of spite even if it damages the US as much as the UK.
Cranky Grandfather would probably wake up one day and decide to pop a 200% tarrif on you.
If you look all he wants is attention for his daily TV episode
If you aren’t kissing the ring and swearing loyalty or heaping praise on him then your more than likely to be the next victim of his petty vindictiveness.
BTW that’s apparently the ‘worlds coolest dictator’ twitter/x pictured with trump whose currently hobby is:
Since assuming the presidency on June 1, 2019, Nayib Bukele has tightened his grip on power at the expense of eroding democracy and rule of law. At the beginning of this year, the ruling party secured a majority in the Legislative Assembly allowing it to pass laws without negotiating with the opposition and to completely reshuffle the Constitutional Chamber whose rulings until then had stifled the government. The fruits of this for Bukele came fast, with the new handpicked judges wasting little time green-lighting his re-electoral ambitions albeit in express contravention to the country’s Constitution.
https://directoriolegislativo.org/en/how-nayib-bukele-is-becoming-the-worlds-coolest-dictator/
By all accounts Trump and all the other Trumpettes are obsessed by meeting British Royalty. He apparently has the same reaction to them as he does with dictators - ie he's in awe of them and fawns all over them [eeww]. If I was PM, and I knew that setting up a meeting with one man- who's actual job is just shaking hands with people just like Trump, would make a actual material difference to thousands of people's who's jobs rely on exporting goods to the US, then I would make sure I was doing everything I could to make that happen.
And why the * did charles send the * a personal invite?
Because the Prime Minister had told him to?
Oh, I'm sorry, did I miss the part where Starmer forced Charles hand, to sign a letter? If you sign your name, it's on you.
Charles could have simply told Starmer he didn't want to get involved, and that would have been that.
For someone worrying about international diplomacy and how things look, you might want to start by learning about how things work at home. The last king who told his government what to do regretted it.
Anyway, ignoring Trump yet again blaming Zelensky for provoking that poor Vladimir into destroying Ukraine, nice to see one organisation is (probably rich enough to be) willing to tell him to **** off with his plans for the Turd Reich.
BBC News - Trump freezes $2bn in Harvard funding after university rejects demands
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz01y9gkdm3o
setting up a meeting with one man- who's actual job is just shaking hands with people just like Trump
And the cunning part is that it will be an unequal handshake. With his fat sausage fingers grabbing Trump's tiny hand the King will have the upper hand.
BBC News - Trump freezes $2bn in Harvard funding after university rejects demands
Trump voters don't go to Harvard. Like Reform voters don't go to Oxbridge. There are a few reasons for this but the most important one is the most obvious one.
We're on our last day of a city break in Amsterdam with the kids. I think, without fail, every loud, brash, pushy, entitled, inappropriate, overweight arse we have come across in a queue, shop, restaurant, tram etc has been an American. It really is that striking. Makes you think.
I missed off 'graceless'.
Trump is quite capable of penalising the UK for the slight of a cancelled visit out of spite even if it damages the US as much as the UK.
He is also quite capable of penalising the UK because he sees weakness that can be exploited.
We're on our last day of a city break in Amsterdam with the kids. I think, without fail, every loud, brash, pushy, entitled, inappropriate, overweight arse we have come across in a queue, shop, restaurant, tram etc has been an American. It really is that striking. Makes you think.
I'm really surprised by that, we spent a week in Amsterdam last Summer and apart from overweight and maybe loud for some none of that applied to any of them. In Paris recently the Americans at Notre Dame morning mass were quiet and discrete, those in Eurostar delightful (and not overweight), the one on the night bus heading for Portugal fit and pleasant. The only people I've shared space with recently that fit your description were Brits on the Flixbus from Birmingham to London - I've just checked the message I sent my wife "smelly passive aggressive". 🙂
We're on our last day of a city break in Amsterdam with the kids. I think, without fail, every loud, brash, pushy, entitled, inappropriate, overweight arse we have come across in a queue, shop, restaurant, tram etc has been an American. It really is that striking. Makes you think.
I've been interrailing down to Sicily via Paris, Rome and Naples, and have found the many Americans I've come across to be polite, curious and respectful.
- I have found a big split with americans. The loud brash pushy sterotype is real but not universal
Not all people "are the same" shocka
Try being in Cuba surrounded by yanks when they beat us in the world cup. Not a good day.
Trump is quite capable of penalising the UK for the slight of a cancelled visit out of spite even if it damages the US as much as the UK.
He is also quite capable of penalising the UK because he sees weakness that can be exploited.
Exactly. I'd sooner go down fighting.
Looks like good news for Airbus. That’s going to properly wind up the orange shitgibbon
Re. The Harvard thing, not wanting to defend anti-Semitism, but isn't that something that would be protected under their US free speech laws, therefore it's going to end up at the courts with the Trump administration forced to climb down
Re. The Harvard thing, not wanting to defend anti-Semitism, but isn't that something that would be protected under their US free speech laws, therefore it's going to end up at the courts with the Trump administration forced to climb down
Without being drawn into the antisemitism aspect, there's a guy in a high security jail in El Salvador who is not confident Trump will follow directions even from the Supreme Court.
Re. The Harvard thing, not wanting to defend anti-Semitism, but isn't .....
Unless you agree with Donald Trump's definition of anti-semitism you stand little risk of doing that.
According to the linked article among the demands the Trump administration has made on Harvard is :
reporting students to the federal government who are "hostile" to American values
That is a particularly interesting one because based on Trump's behaviour and attacks on American institutions surely any student expressing support for Donald Trump would be guilty of being hostile to America values and should be reported?
I've been interrailing down to Sicily via Paris, Rome and Naples, and have found the many Americans I've come across to be polite, curious and respectful.
Almost 2 wks intermingling with 'mericans in NYC and in Florida. Would guess the majority were Trumpies going by maga hats and attire sporting the orange cult leader. 90% of them were arseholes, loud, brash, self-centered and the eating habits of pigs. I shall not be hurrying back to the US anytime soon.
According to the linked article among the demands the Trump administration has made on Harvard is :
reporting students to the federal government who are "hostile" to American values
That is a particularly interesting one because based on Trump's behaviour and attacks on American institutions surely any student expressing support for Donald Trump would be guilty of being hostile to America values and should be reported?
Can you imagine the government being flooded with reports of MAGA supporters anti US views? That would be fantastic. And if Trump said something on a campus....
Well, of the four things that got my goat to a greater or lesser extent over the last 3 days, all were septics.
1. The three pudgy, horrible women of ascending size (think grumpy Russian dolls) who squashed, barged and shoved us and various people whilst trying to get out of a no-exit door on the tram (and didn't say thank you when my wife passed her case down to her) - American.
2. The large table in the quite nice restaurant who were louder than the rest of the place combined, most males (adult and kids) baseball-capped whilst eating indoors and yawping. They also ordered a mountain of main courses which the kids left most of (too busy dicking around) before ordering a mountain of desserts. American.
3. The couple who barged into a lift ahead of us (and a disabled guy - also American) in a museum. American.
4. The pair of couples in their 60s who were loudly laughing and joking and generally making an exhibition of themselves outside the Anne Frank house. American.
It is all subjective, obviously. But the US of A scored an impressive 4/4 of people that ground my gears on our break. No one else even made me tut the whole time we were there.
It is all subjective, obviously. But the US of A scored an impressive 4/4 of people that ground my gears on our break. No one else even made me tut the whole time we were there.
Unconscious bias.
I can usually find four Brits to grind me gears before I get to the office at 8am.
And now a message from our sponsors…………..(or a duplicate post)
Without being drawn into the antisemitism aspect, there's a guy in a high security jail in El Salvador who is not confident Trump will follow directions even from the Supreme Court.
Administrative error.
Supreme Court told them to bring him back,Trump team broadcast it as a win.
And being openly defiant in not arranging a way to do it.
Disappearing legal residents to a foreign country has happened even without this boo boo.
Unconscious bias.
I disagree. I know my own subconscious well enough to (mostly) correct my attitude in the moment and certainly when any emotion has ebbed away. These four people-driven moments were the only ones that pissed me off in a busy city and all four were perpetrated by Americans.
I can usually find four Brits to grind me gears before I get to the office at 8am.
Me too (in the days when i didn't predominantly work from home, at least). But most of those would have been driving related and I'm not sure how it is relevant.
Incidentally, I left out the bunch of American teens in the sports bar who took over an entire section like an invading army and were generally loud and a bit pushy. That's because it was not a scenario that would have been much different with anyone else and it was that kind of place. We only went in because my lad wanted to watch some of the golf.
Other meals had Americans in attendance. One was youngish couple - he was American, she was Dutch, an early relationship date by the look of it - both very nice, seemingly.
We only had one very loud and obnoxious table of fellow diners in a restaurant - Americans. We were only once rudely barged and pushed on public transport - Americans. We only had one couple dive into a lift jumping the queue - Americans.
Sorry, but I'm pretty much obsessively objective, and these were my experiences.
🤷♂️
1/ Amsterdam trams are pretty confusing, not being able to get out of a front door is widespread but not being able to get out of double doors further back is unusual. The ticketting system is crap too, you can't use the same credit card for two transactions within a time limit, then when you've got the ticket it's not obvious what to do with it.
2/ Loud I'll give you. I used to think it was because they were speaking English so I tuned in to what they were saying easily and understood. I've since revised to accepting the loud stereotype is accurate.
3/ I always take the stairs when available. Not much experience of lifts.
4/ People laughing and joking in the street is like the noise of children playing, something positive in my life. I found the Brummy you-look-at-me-and-I'll-stab-you silent scowl/death look more worrying. Whatever happened to the place I was born? But yes they do tend to be loud.
Trams are a bit confusing, but they didn't have to be so rude and pushy. They were next to the conductor booth thing, so could (and should) have asked. I'm sure the scenario happens a lot. But their attitude was pretty disgraceful.
We were only taking the lift because it was oppressively hot and we'd been walking all day. They absolutely should not have barged in front of the disabled guy, end of.
I didn't major on the being loud in the street thing because, compared to the others, it is a lesser thing. But no one else was doing it and no one else was so jarringly loud and out of place. My wife works in a hospital and has to put up with all manner of shit. She is not easily annoyed by people, but she had a rolleyes moment at the same time.
I can continue to expand on my basis for commenting about my recent experiences if you like. But I think the vast majority of folk on here would rather just read the posts in their own right rather than have me recite a minute-by-minute account of my recent holiday. Up to you guys.
Back on the subject of trade wars and blackmail... the latest n the UK-USA trade relationship:
Starmer told UK must repeal hate speech laws to protect LGBT+ people or lose Trump trade deal
‘Good chance’ of agreement, says JD Vance – but sources say his concerns over Britain’s hate speech laws ‘are still a red line’
I thought we took back control of our sovereignty, though?
2/ Loud I'll give you. I used to think it was because they were speaking English so I tuned in to what they were saying easily and understood. I've since revised to accepting the loud stereotype is accurate.
I think this cultural, you’d love it in Spain when people get excited 🙂
Its easy to assume they are the same as us due to the shared language but there are subtle and unsubtle differences.
I tend to think we English are terribly soft spoken and prudish and tbh some of us may be terrible fun suckers and sticklers for the unwritten rules 🙂
I thought we took back control of our sovereignty, though?
Sovereignty is all sunshine and roses, until you realise you are a small nation trying to negociate with super-powers and huge trading blocs.
until you realise you are a small nation trying to negociate with super-powers and huge trading blocs.
If only we were part of a huge trading bloc.
That er may honour its existing agreements and not wake up one morning and on a whim whack 10% tarrif on for giggles
I spend a lot of time in Spain. 🙂 In the mountains you often hear them before you see them. It's often quite joyous.
I'm reminded of being in a supermarket in Chamonix and hearing a voice bellowing all the way along the shop "Hey Mary, your chocolates are over here".
On the other hand I worked for an American civil engineering consultants in Saudi Arabia and my American colleagues were quite pleasant. All a bit mad in their own way but quite pleasant.
Back on the subject of trade wars and blackmail... the latest n the UK-USA trade relationship:
Starmer told UK must repeal hate speech laws to protect LGBT+ people or lose Trump trade deal
‘Good chance’ of agreement, says JD Vance – but sources say his concerns over Britain’s hate speech laws ‘are still a red line’
I'd like to hope that we put our principles above the (accepted) need to trade with the US.
If only we were part of a huge trading bloc.
Don't be daft. Who'd want that?
I'd like to hope that we put our principles above the (accepted) need to trade with the US.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣