Raybanwomble is a stupid moron calling “my sincerest apologies” a non-apology

Just after he accused the people who took offence of having diseased minds.

Looks like you seem offended by being called an idiot.

How utterly hilarious.

I definitely didn’t intend for that to be taken as an insult, I was using it as it was used in the 19th century – as a purely scientific descriptive term. Then again, I shouldn’t expect anything better from someone of unsound mind.

….well my work here is done.

There are people on the thread who are defending what DB said

Nobody has defended what he said.

I didn’t see it as a racist tweet as I don’t carry Megan’s mixed race heritage in my conciousness, so I didn’t make the link between “chimp” and “black” until I read it on here. If it had been, say, Tyra Banks and I HAD made the link, would that make me racist?

Aye, they are. They’re calling people who thought it was racist snowflakes and easily offended. I’m not offended in any way, someone else’s opinion has no reflection upon me and the more they defend it the sillier they look. I do however get mighty peeved off that these people are my kids future employers and inlaws and can influence my kids outcomes because of their own ignorance. People who hold these ideas are also parents and educators and so these ideas get passed on, our grandkids are going to be having the same discussions.

@pondo ?? No, it would not mean that you are racist if you saw the link between black people being associated with monkeys. To me it would suggest that someone can see beyond the end of their own nose

@aweeshoe

Have you ever done the Harvard implicit bias test

I just tried the race preference one – I got “No automatic preference for African American or European American”. That’s kind of what I would have expected, but I was also relieved – I really didn’t want to score badly on that.
I’ve spent a lot of time living in countries where white people are not the majority, so I got quite used having having a) mostly friends of colour
b) As a minority I noticed a few things I’d never noticed before..

Thanks for taking the time to answer my posts. And really, get that teacher sacked.

All incorrect

OK then, I have to say I’m even more surprised that so many people are aware that the monkey insult is a well known racist insult and didn’t make the connection in this case!

Cheers @easily, it was a real eye opener for me. It’s not people’s ignorance that surprises me, it’s the lengths they will go to to defend it.

I could use the teacher who casually said “Black people can’t swim” to a small group of 10yr old girls discussing their swimming lessons, one of them was black, as an example.

I informally enquired as to how the statement was qualified, the HT said that the teacher had a black brother-in-law and they were discussing which countries were good at sport? I asked where the Black Country was, as far as I was aware it was somewhere near Somerset.

The LA said that the information was “factual” and that black people are physiologically different to white people. It had also become a class discussion about athletics and it was a “factual” response. We even got offered extra free swimming lessons, my kids swim. In fact a black woman had just won a gold medal in swimming was beyond them as were socioeconomics.

No right of reply, I did anyway and was redirected to the SPSO. However, due to legislation the SPSO can’t investigate anything to do with conduct, curriculum or discipline in schools.

John Swinney redirected me to the Govan Law Centre, but racism isn’t in their remit.

Notice a pattern?

Legal aid doesn’t cover human rights or public law.

That’s not even the worst of it.

My kids had to move school and I was threatened with the losing them, it would be so much better if I stopped pursuing my complaint. They didn’t quite agree with telling the racists to stop, apparently it’s more offensive. It’s not the teacher who I’d like to see sacked, he made a stupid comment when the others considered theirs. (It’s also a bit weird that the kid who was considering suicide at 6yrs old records went missing in the transfer??)

I’m now considering my actions and have had a consultation with Aamer Anwar, but it will cost £60K to step in to court. I’ve done my homework though and have the support of not only academics but the whole bloomin institution.

I’m not going to name the council, they have approached other sites to redact it and I’d hate for STW to get into trouble but they can sue me if they wish as it would be a lot easier for me and I’m happy to pm anyone who asks

So…… Danny Baker posts a clearly racist image/caption, possibly without realising it was such. He offers a non-apology (worse, actually) and is fired from his job on a national broadcaster?

Not sure what else the BBC could do. If he’d have offered the most heartfelt and well crafted apology, he might have managed to keep his job, but he didn’t, so he didn’t.

The guy is either a racist or an idiot

OK then, I have to say I’m even more surprised that so many people are aware that the monkey insult is a well known racist insult and didn’t make the connection in this case!

The reason is that they didn’t know who Meghan Markle was and if they did they didn’t know she was mixed race as they clearly have never seen her or read/heard any of the 100’s of stories about it over the last 2 years.
That could be true I suppose, but not likely to be true to Baker.

I’m impressed, your ears can obviously filter out certain news items when they are mentioned on the radio or TV.

Err….I don’t watch the news or listen to the radio (Netflix and Spotify are great). Reading doesn’t involve the ears so I’m all good when it comes to not hearing certain news items. I’m happy that you find me impressive though 😉

The BBC sack Danny Baker, yet for years turned a blind eye to Savile’s ‘activities’

What Savile did was far, far worse but kept his job…

lol @ funkmasterp, yeah Danny Baker probably never listens to the radio.

I cringed when I saw the tweet. Imo it was a sacking offence. Really dumb as well as depriving me of one of my favourite radio shows of the week.
And +100 for “Also very impressed with aweeshoes post(s)”.

Err….I don’t watch the news or listen to the radio (Netflix and Spotify are great). Reading doesn’t involve the ears so I’m all good when it comes to not hearing certain news items. I’m happy that you find me impressive though 😉

Then perhaps avoid discussions where you’re not armed with info that’s common knowledge to most? That’s pretty much what I do with footy.

The excuse doesn’t stand for not making the connection between monkeys being associated with people of colour, he’s a Millwall fan (allegedly the only intelligent one). I believe their supporters ‘have form’ for racist abuse of players on the pitch.

Agreed it’s a sacking offence. I want to live in a UK where this stuff couldn’t happen, zero tolerance.

I want to live in a UK where this stuff couldn’t happen

Good luck with that. This country is going backwards rather than forwards.

The excuse doesn’t stand…

Yes, but Megan Markle’s identity and African American heritage are closely guarded secrets, rarely disclosed to the general public and only known to those of us who are avid readers of Hello magazine, so it’s really easy to miss the racist connotations.

Impressed with Awesshoes post’s? GTF.

All he’s done is put up a load of explicitly and unquestionably racist abuse and equate it to posting a silly picture on twitter.

Yes, it’s shit that your family and anyone else for that matter suffers abuse and discrimination but that is not the subject here.

What you seem to be unable to grasp is that not everyone sees a picture of a chimp and immediately makes an association with black people.

Not everyone thinks of other people in terms of race first i.e. Meghan Markle is a royal first, actress second and black somewhere down the list in order of characteristics of note.

When making a silly joke about the pointlessness of Royals, why would race even come intot he equation – the only reasons are 1. you are trying to make a racist joke or two you are black yourself and have been subject to abuse of that nature.

The image itself is not racist. The wider context makes it so and it should clearly be removed. Very, very few people on here have suggested that it was OK to be left in place. Those defending Danny Baker are simply saying he did not even consider race at the tie of posting, which is entirely plausible especially given the posts swift removal and proper apology once it was pointed out to him.

And frankly, if the likes of eat_the_pudding dont have the capacity to understand that, they have my pity…

Still going round and round I see.
Thing you don’t get cumberlanddan, is that people on here are soooo clever that they can actually read the mind of a celebrity, someone they don’t know, someone they they have never met. They KNOW their thoughts. And there’s no way us dopes can discuss something with people that clever. And if you disagree with them well, clearly you’re an idiot or a troll.

The image itself is not racist

But when viewed from a perspective that the baby’s mother and one of it’s grandparents is black, clearly it is. It’s also almost certain (to a percentage of impossibility) that Danny Baker knows that. That he still posted it, and then made a half arsed apology which basically implied that anyone who sees this as racist has a diseased mind, and then trying to  make himself a victim by suggesting that it was his “time in the barrel” pretty much made up the minds of people who can think.

Look, I don’t think Danny is racist, I enjoyed his show, I think he’s pretty funny and smart. But this is beyond what is acceptable in public. That’s pretty much the start middle and end of the discussion.

Of course he knew about her race. He presents a radio show, he is embedded in the media and surrounded by current affairs
He would have had to attend lengthy BBC training courses on racial awareness, it was his responsibility to remain on the right side of acceptable
He made a silly mistake then made it far worse with his attacking non-apology
He was in breach of contract

He absolutely deserved to be sacked, whether or not his post was intentionally racist is largely irrelevant.

Megan Markle has been getting loads of online abuse, much of it rascist, and Danny Baker, being a journalist, will have known that and so to not be aware of the implication of what he was posting was severly niave and even incompetant – therefore he deserves the sack.

https://news.sky.com/story/trolling-of-meghan-how-duchess-is-abused-over-race-and-pregnancy-11696606

I think it’s massively relevant, context is hugely important. I can’t argue with the sacking but I think there’s a vast gulf between a Danny Baker continuing his “monkeys in clothes” trope and a Danny Baker posting chimp pics because the mother of a famous baby is mixed race.

Of course he knows her race. When he posted the picture the joke wasn’t “ha ha black baby looks like a chimp” the joke was “ha ha royal baby – another performing monkey”. Race doesn’t feature in the equation for the latter.

If you are predisposed to make that link you might see it straightaway (i.e. racists (diseased mind) or people who have been subject to that abuse). Clearly the post is inappropriate and should have been removed, which it was, with an apology (twice) but that’s not good enough for the permanently enraged.

My objection is to the witch hunt and the refusal to see that it could be posted in error which is basically as, if not more, bigoted than the racism of which he is accused.

that people on here are soooo clever that they can actually read the mind of a celebrity, someone they don’t know, someone they they have never met. They KNOW their thoughts. And there’s no way us dopes can discuss something with people that clever.

There’s people on here who when they hear someone was slapped in the face say “what’s it matter? I didn’t feel a thing…”

If you are predisposed to make that link you might see it straightaway (i.e. racists (diseased mind) or people who have been subject to that abuse)

or you might be someone who is aware of social issues, historical context of apes in racism and has a basic idea of what is deemed okay.

Bit late to the party, but he offended the royals, doesn’t matter to the BBC whether it was racist or not. THey’re not exactly known for their fair handling of anything

the joke was “ha ha royal baby – another performing monkey”.

Yep, I think every one who knows Danny’s long running joke, understands this. Two things though,

1. Do you think that 2 black American women would’ve known this, and understood the nuance, above and beyond the very obvious historical connotation of monkey/apes and black people?

2.  Do you think that a moments thought about the heritage of the baby would give you a pause to consider the wider implications of the image above and beyond the immediate joke, that TBF to Danny’s ratings, a few thousand people may have understood? And do you think that Danny should’ve recognised that?

Race doesn’t feature in the equation for the latter.

When the child is of mixed heritage, it clearly does.

I get that Danny was making another contribution to his performing monkey trope, and that in his rush to make the joke he clearly didn’t consider the wider implications. That he made a hash of the media scrum after the event is absolutely a cock up of his own devising. That folk are still trying to defend it, is frankly astounding…

And why would you automatically be thinking about race when making that joke?

Thats the whole point – if someone says I’ve had a baby I don’t immediately ask “whats it’s race”?

And why would you automatically be thinking about race when making that joke?

Because in this case the baby is mixed heritage and it’s grandmother is black, and there is a long and sordid history on both sides of the Atlantic of comparing apes and monkeys to black people that anyone with an ounce of understanding, compassion and empathy has knowledge of.

If you don’t (have that knowledge) than frankly, stop arguing on the internet, and go educate yourself so you don’t end up in the same situation as Danny Baker.

And why would you automatically be thinking about race when making that joke?

Thats the whole point – if someone says I’ve had a baby I don’t immediately ask “whats it’s race”?

This, I don’t know or think about the racial heritage of my own kids, let alone anyone else’s. Who cares? People are just people.

If you don’t (have that knowledge) than frankly, stop arguing on the internet, and go educate yourself so you don’t end up in the same situation as Danny Baker.

Far from perpetuating it, we should be congratulating ourselves that racist imagery is so far from (most) of our consciousness that it can be used accidentally and most of us don’t even notice it. Far from perpetuating it we should all forget it and consign it to history. (Many of us thought it had been.)

Lets try again…

If you are making a joke about “a royal baby”, and you don’t think about its race unless someone points it out to you, there is no reason to think that the picture would be offensive. The fact that there is a racist association between monkeys and black people simply does not come into it.

Once someone points out your error you would expect the post to be retracted and an apology issued. Which is what happened.

The intended joke was clearly “Royals are just performing circus animals”. There was no consideration of race whatsoever in it.

This inability to see anything but the worst in people is absolutely staggering.

Good morning, everyone.
Following one of the worst days of my life I just want to formally apologise for the outrage I caused and explain how I got myself into this mess.
I chose the wrong photo to illustrate a joke. Disastrously so.

— Danny Baker (@prodnose) May 10, 2019

If he’d have come out with that response yesterday he might just have saved his job.

Glad he’s taken time to explain things rationally

This inability to see anything but the worst in people is absolutely staggering.

this thread isn’t about that, There are remarkably few people on here claiming that he did it on purpose, or that they think Danny is actually racist. It’s about making judgements about humour vs the offence caused. Danny Baker made a joke that can be perceived as racist, he then compounded his error by trying to portray himself as the victim. He has been sacked because of his misjudgement.

The End

nickc – that’s not the argument most people have been making at all.

The End (or is it, who gets to say?)

Once someone points out your error you would expect the post to be retracted and an apology issued. Which is what happened.

His apology was confused & angry it got him into more trouble

The End (or is it, who gets to say?)

Read Danny’s own mea culpa on the twitter feed provided by PrinceJohn. I think that pretty much wraps it up, don’t you?

Yeah. It basically says what I said all along.

Is this the end now?

Yes. Apart from those you describe as

the permanently enraged.

I’d call most people who are vaguely aware, and who got to where you now appear to be a bit quicker. And who for the most part come across as less cross 🙂