are the permanantly enraged the ones who are permanently enranged about the ‘PC gone mad culture’ we live in now or the ones who think posting pics of mixed raced kids as chimps (intentionally or not)

Where I appear to be? I haven’t moved thanks.

Then perhaps avoid discussions where you’re not armed with info that’s common knowledge to most? That’s pretty much what I do with footy.

Is this not a public forum wherein one can post opinion on any number of subjects? I appear to be one of many that had no idea she was mixed race. Therefore I didn’t see racist in the image until somebody pointed out the fact. Whether or not the image itself can be construed as racist appears to now be a moot point as it has been decided that it is.

no idea she was mixed race

I find this incredible.

Put me in with the “didn’t see it as racist until pointed out” cabal. I’m vaguely aware that the mother isn’t pure white and that some related racist chanting occurs at some football grounds. I’ve also had to explain the connection to 3 other folk who also just saw it as a “royal baby in performing animal shocker” jibe. I reckon the link to racist chanting is less well known than many on here would expect.

no idea she was mixed race

I find this incredible

Seriously, I wouldn’t have known if my wife hadn’t mentioned it at some point. Gossip on the royal family isn’t something I follow.

@cumberlanddan Wow! Any evidence of any racist comments I’ve made? No, there’s not. I’d accept an apology for your abuse and defamation of my character.

Racism is not one of those “if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it” kinda questions, intention and interpretation have nowt to do with it. Relating the only black royals to a monkey is racist, end of. He could have qualified the photo at the time, but as in my story he chose to try and cover his tracks later instead.

I’ve stated my perspective clearly and concisely and provided you with ample explanations of unconscious bias and how racism manifests. Thanks for demonstrating my point so passionately, it’s a shame that you can’t grasp the concept but I don’t think you’re ever going to be able to grasp the complexity of simple bigotry

Gossip

It’s not gossip. I realise you’re getting on a bit, and maybe it’s hard to keep up with events that happen at what may seem like lightning speed to you at times, but not knowing that Megan Markle was/is mixed race is hilarious. Of course you’re not the only one, but it’s still hilarious that anyone who is vaguely aware of the Internet/social media/rolling news is not aware of that fact. By the way, the acceptable term these days is “mixed heritage” – you probably missed that one too. But that’s forgivable.

Geoff Lloyd has taken over for tomorrow. It looks like we are all being punished.

Aweeshoe

I didn’t immediately make the connection. You then branded anyone who didn’t ‘ignorant and priviledged’.

You are just as offensive as anyone on this thread I’m afraid.

cumberlanddan

Yeah. It basically says what I said all along.

I’m pretty sure Danny Baker might disagree with you.
What you said:

It is a racist post to racists (and to those constantly vigilant for potential offence I suppose), but if your mind doesn’t work that way there isn’t anything obvious to be upset about. It took me a long time to work out what the offence was.

What he said:

“But it was a genuine, naive and catastrophic mistake. There is of course little media/twitter traction in such a straight-forward explanation. The picture in context as presented was obviously shamefully racist. It was never intended so – seriously who on earth would ‘go there’?”

You might be right that it was unintentional (I agree) but the man himself agrees that “in context as presented was obviously shamefully racist”.

Any additional thoughts cumberlanddan, I guess you could look him up on twitter and try to convince him he’s wrong?

awesshoe – Concisely? No, you provided a tale of woe based on actual racism you and others have experienced. Fair enough, that should all be dealt with in the appropriate manner.

None of that experience really has anything to add to Danny Baker’s situation. You leap to the conclusion that he is racist simply because racism exists and refuse to countenance that he might have posted something which can be construed as racist without any intention to be racist.

That doesn’t diminish the inappropriateness (if thats a word) of his post but it does mean he should be cut a bit of slack, especially when he has no form, and when his first action on realising what the post looked like was to remove it and apologise.

Basically, as I said above, you are refusing to see anything but the worst possible intention. Your posts show why, but I don’t think its a reasonable position to take.

I find this incredible.

Why ? I didn’t even know her name.. If you’d given me 50 guesses i may have randomly got there from seeing something once on-line in passing. I don’t watch the news, or current affairs, i don’t read newspapers or visit their websites. I visit the BBC every day for weather and football, direct links on my favourites… that’s it, that simple.

I was in the Docs with my lad this morning and the had an OK magazine and only now do i know that there’s 2 royal blokes and girls, i assumed there was only 1 and he’d split with the Kate who lived near me and got this new one. I was only aware of her because we cycle through the village sometimes and there were press there on one ride.

Hence, i can say with 100% certainty i didn’t know this girl had mixed race in her…

. I realise you’re getting on a bit, and maybe it’s hard to keep up with events that happen at what may seem like lightning speed to you at times, but not knowing that Megan Markle was/is mixed race is hilarious

Yawn. Go straight to the personal attack. Again. I’m sure some of your woke buddies will be along to back you up in due course. The fact is that I have the ability to filter out my social media to what is relevant and personal to me. Maybe you will learn to do the same once you grow up.

Anyway, reported for age-ism.

sorry, to dredge back a couple of pages….

I wouldn’t call a white kid it either.

Interesting. Why is that? Is it because the whole concept of simian reference now holds so profound racial stigma/connotation to you to the extent that it can’t be used even when it clearly has no possible racial angle with the people involved? Can’t think of another reason. Animal comparisons are a pretty common thing both positive and negative. Thankfully most are non racial in connotation.

Similarly, if Danny Baker had used the same image and comment about William and Kate’s last sprog would it have not been acceptable to you?

Don’t take it as a jibe at you, genuinely interested in the perspectives of others.

Hence, i can say with 100% certainty i didn’t know this girl had mixed race in her…

You’re obviously getting on a bit. I can only assume you were at the GP due to an incontinence problem?

awesshoe – Concisely? No, you provided a tale of woe based on actual racism you and others have experienced. Fair enough, that should all be dealt with in the appropriate manner.

None of that experience really has anything to add to Danny Baker’s situation. You leap to the conclusion that he is racist simply because racism exists and refuse to countenance that he might have posted something which can be construed as racist without any intention to be racist.

That doesn’t diminish the inappropriateness (if thats a word) of his post but it does mean he should be cut a bit of slack, especially when he has no form, and when his first action on realising what the post looked like was to remove it and apologise.

Basically, as I said above, you are refusing to see anything but the worst possible intention. Your posts show why, but I don’t think its a reasonable position to take.

Broadly agree with this and see it as a fair and balanced viewpoint.

eat_the_pudding – DBs comments and mine say the same thing.

Any evidence of any racist comments I’ve made?

In this thread you admitted that you had referred to your ex as a cheeky “monkey” and he was deeply offended. You also admitted to *being* a racist:

“I called my ex a cheeky monkey once, I never thought anything of it but I may as well have called him a c*** judging by the look on his face.”

“Have you ever done the Harvard implicit bias test? It covers a range of biases from ableism to sexism I was surprised to discover that I’m racist owards white people!”

Hence, i can say with 100% certainty i didn’t know this girl had mixed race in her…

Me too, I’ve only seen her on the front of papers and knew that she was American. Based purely on that I’d made the assumption that she was of South or Native American extraction and then given it no further thought. Having just looked at Wikipedia I now know that she is Caucasian/African American.

Either way, I don’t particularly care. She is just a person.

For reference my Tanzanian postdoc and her Nigerian husband calls their 3yo daughter “little monkey”. They call my 2yo Caucasian daughter “little monkey” too. I call their daughter “little monkey”.  When they are together we call them “little monkeys”. None of us are apparently offended, nor are those nearby when it happens.

It would appear that context and intent may actually have something to do with it all.

Danny Baker made a stupid joke (that I interpreted in the way he intended), apologised when alternative interpretations were presented and removed the tweet. Maybe not the most savvy move on his part ever but he gave his explanation and it seemed reasonable to assume it was the truth given his past. Not really sure what all the fuss is about other than people putting words and intentions in his mouth and then judging him for it.

None of that experience really has anything to add to Danny Baker’s situation. You leap to the conclusion that he is racist simply because racism exists and refuse to countenance that he might have posted something which can be construed as racist without any intention to be racist.

….and fail to provide any motive for deliberately bringing a world of grief down on his own head beyond: “He thought he’d get away with it.” – Why do something voluntary which has no benefit because you “think you’ll get away with”. That’s not motive, that’s an absence of motive.

Occams razor says he either didn’t have the background of the baby at the forefront of his conciousness or he didn’t have the special significance of chimpanzees to a tiny minority of deranged people at the forefront of his conciousness. (I didn’t myself, indeed I wasn’t even 100pc sure which of Charles’s Daughter in laws had popped another baby until this thread, and I listen the Today all the way into work every weekday morning. Also I haven’t heard the monkey reference to race since I was in primary school. [1]) That’s not to say I didn’t know both things if you gave me 30 seconds to think about it – I know lots of things that aren’t at the forefront of my mind – Trig, for instance.

On the subject of 30 seconds to think about it, don’t people who tweet to thousands have some kind of editor to check before posting? I’m staggered.

[1] EDIT: Actually that’s not true there was a thread about it on here a while back.

Whether or not the image itself can be construed as racist appears to now be a moot point as it has been decided that it is.

The picture is not racist at all. Nothing racist about a dressed up chimp with two white people.

It is how the picture has been used that is racist and in the context in this case it doesn’t pass.

If people didn’t realise this after seeing the mother or hearing about her race on the news/media over the last 2 years then fair enough I suppose. But do you honestly think Baker was in that position? I don’t think he has used that in any of his ‘defences’

If people didn’t realise this after seeing the mother or hearing about her race on the news/media over the last 2 years then fair enough I suppose.

…because we all remember 2 year old celeb stories in detail. Jesus, I can’t instantly remember what I had for breakfast last week, or what I did 5 weekends ago.

I’m genuinely surprised at the number of people on here that don’t seem to either watch the news or read newspapers, even occasionally. I’m totally disinterested in the royal family but I’m aware of who she is, her background and certainly the fact William/Harry and Kate/Meghan are all different people, mostly as they’re frequently covered on the evening and breakfast news (truth be told I mostly watch breakfast news in case there’s been a zombie apocalypse overnight and it means I don’t have to go into work).

Jesus, the BBC are still allowing some utter cretin on the news to say that “I think Danny Baker hasn’t done enough, he needs to go and meet Harry and Meghan and abase himself, naked in front of them…”

FFS, as if they want to be involved in this. And again, this pathetic world we live in, in which “I got sacked, I apologised profusely, I’ll never do it again” isn’t enough.
BURN HIM! FLAY HIM! TAKE AWAY HIS BRITISH IDENTITY!!

I’m genuinely surprised at the number of people on here that don’t seem to either watch the news or read newspapers, even occasionally. I’m totally disinterested in the royal family but I’m aware of who she is, her background and certainly the fact William/Harry and Kate/Meghan are all different people, mostly as they’re frequently covered on the evening and breakfast news (truth be told I mostly watch breakfast news in case there’s been a zombie apocalypse overnight and it means I don’t have to go into work).

I’d be surprised if you remember everything you heard on the news. The fact there’s a word “Memorable” suggests there’s stuff that isn’t memorable. Kate’s family history is at the front of your mind, other stuff isn’t. Other people will have different priorities. I listen to “Thought for the Day” every day as a drive. Not only do I not remember it, I zone out for most of it. (Except today when a name I recognized came up and it made me focus for a while.)

You simply can’t argue that we all have everything we know instantly accessible at the front of our minds, and you can’t argue we remember everything we hear. If we did exams would be quite easy!

I’m genuinely surprised at the number of people on here that don’t seem to either watch the news or read newspapers, even occasionally. 

Me to, but also suprised that after opening this thread cliking the OP’s link some people didn’t feel the need to research the whole Harry/Megan thing before commenting.
Bit like the endemic trend on facebook of commenting on or liking articles without even reading them.

…because we all remember 2 year old celeb stories in detail.

Remembering the race of a person is not that hard and not really a celeb story is it. But as I said, if you don’t remember or have never heard it or have never seen Meghan then fair enough you won’t see the picture in the context as posted as racist. But again, do we really believe someone in Baker’s position would be that unaware of popular media?

The stw racists just can’t seem to let this one go! 😆

But again, do we really believe someone in Baker’s position would be that unaware of popular media?

Well there’s cast iron evidence that he was unaware because if he’d been aware of it he wouldn’t have posted an image that could cause him no good and was highly likely to cause him a vast amount of pain.

suprised that after opening this thread cliking the OP’s link some people didn’t feel the need to research the whole Harry/Megan thing before commenting.

I researched! I’m not interested in Celebs but I *am* interested in trying to win arguments on the internet. I’ve done the knowledge, I know everything about them now.

I doubt this is going to help, anyway…

Its not whether or not he knew Meghan of Meghan Markles heritage (which he may or may not have done), it is a question of whether it entered his brain when posting the picture. If the picture was posted about the other ones (Kate is it?) kids, no-one would have batted an eye, it would just be a silly post about how silly the royals are.

That it is Megan Markle’s kid means that there is another meaning, however for Danny Baker to have been racist he would have had to have been actively thinking about her race when he posted it. He says he wasn’t and that is entirely plausible to me (and many others).

That doesn’t stop the picture having racist connotations and that is why he removed it and apologised. I don’t see the need for the witch hunt which followed.

Its not whether or not he knew Meghan of Meghan Markles heritage (which he may or may not have done), it is a question of whether it entered his brain when posting the picture. 

I kind of agree with this, but he was in such a hurry to be MR Clever he didn’t engage his brain. Once posted though the damage was done and real world the BBC had no option but to fire him. Hopefully he can keep a low profile and find a role for is talents sometime in the future.
For what its worth I think posting a picture of a Chimpanzee as a representation of “anybody’s” new born beloved baby is a crass and disrespectfull thing to do.

The stw racists just can’t seem to let this one go!

so by understanding the joke as showing the royal family to be a circus makes you racsit. That sums up how **** up this world has become.

yip.

he was in such a hurry to be MR Clever he didn’t engage his brain.

Seems plausible. Equally, if it’s true the chimp thing is a running gag it feels more likely to me that he’s got a big stash of chimp pics and he searches through them hoping to find one he can hilariously relate to a current celeb story. It’s probably not that frequent to find a match, this time he finds one with posh man & woman & small chimp and posts without much thought. When the responses come he realizes the significance.

Well there’s cast iron evidence that he was unaware

Of course there isn’t and I would be amazed if he wasn’t aware. That it didn’t occur to him is very odd but I would tend to agree that it would not have been posted as a racist statement.

Not knowing or caring about the race of the latest royal concubine makes you racist.

To help us out, maybe they should all be made to wear a badge.

He may not be, and is probably not, a rascist but, by the nature of his job, he should have known the sensitivity of the subject matter and the significance of the chimp.

If he didn’t know that, in his position, then he shouldn’t be a broadcaster.

He may not be, and is probably not, a rascist but, by the nature of his job, he should have known the sensitivity of the subject matter and the significance of the chimp.

If he didn’t know that, in his position, then he shouldn’t be a broadcaster.

I think that’s fair enough, if you’re going to post something to thousands you need to take the time to properly think it through and you probably want more than one pair of eyes on it. Frankly, I think if you’re posting to thousands you need an editor to give everything proper consideration. I know someone who does exactly that for many local businesses. She manages their social media accounts, they give her the message, she tidys it if required and posts it on their behalf. She’d have caught this instantly.

He may not be, and is probably not, a rascist but, by the nature of his job, he should have known the sensitivity of the subject matter and the significance of the chimp.

I was about to write much the same. Racist? No. Insensitive? Yes.

Incidentally, everyone saying “I didn’t know she was mixed race because I’m not interested enough in the royal family”- fair enough, but then you didn’t post a picture online about the child did you? Anyone who did, presumably does pay some attention to the royal family