Can you challenge over zealous speed limits?

As an aside and following discussions with Scotroutes I changed my approach to driving on the A9. Instead of trying to make progress and overtaking where I could ( only by going a bit over the speed limit) I tried just going at the speedlimit and not fretting about overtaking. 15 mins max extra on the Edinburgh / inverness drive and a huge reduction in stress. Convinced me.

I am all in favour for speed limits in residential areas, but open sections of a highway where there are no houses …

Maybe there are houses at either end, and no pavement so you’re sharing that ‘highway’ with pedestrians? I can think of loads of 40mph limits that link villages and nearby schools (bear in mind that kids are supposed to make their own way upto a good few miles before the school/council has to provide busses), and how often do the ‘older gentlemen’ of STW bemoan that kids no longer ride to school (possibly because drivers break the speed limits)?

There’s also a 40 on the A33 DC where it passes our village, if all those m********* w******* in their f******* german panzer waggons would give up on making f******* progress and stick to the speed limits we’d actually be able to hear each other speak in the garden!

A “game” we’d play driving back from the Lakes along the A65 on a Sunday evening* – try and not use your brakes between the M6 and Skipton. Forces you to look ahead, and anticipate things as well as drive much, much more smoothly. As tjagain says, a lot less stressful as well. The mini-roundabout outside Booths in Kirkby Lonsdale is the one time I have to brake.

*Sunday evening is usually full of weekend/holiday traffic heading back to the Leeds/Bradford area so there’s no point in being aggressive and trying to overtake at every opportunity that would probably be a minute or two max in reduced journey time.

Personally I find the journey much less pleasant sitting behind other people in a plodding queue of traffic, normally driving at least 10mph under the speed limit with many of those drivers seemingly half asleep at the wheel.

Much rather overtake and set my own pace without other traffic infront – far less stressful. People seem to have an increasing reluctance to overtaking these days. In a powerful car overtaking is quick, safe and often enjoyable.

you can travel at a constant 60mph on, 1 mile per minute, at 40mph it’s 1mins 30 seconds, a whole 30 seconds extra for each mile under perfect conditions

Fine unless you’re doing a big mileage or, say, travelling the route every day.
If for example I was doing a 2hr journey, it would now be a 3hr journey. If I was doing that as a round trip…
I try hard not to speed in town, but I fell it’s counter productive having speed limits because some people are incapable of driving to the conditions-and they’re bound to be ignored more widely of they are seen to be less reasonable.
OTOH of course lower speeds make sense to reduce emissions in places near towns, which kill far more people than all RTAs combined (not that the latter isn’t still too high). So maybe I should be more obedient.

try it agent. What I found was I actually spent almost no time behind other vehicles ‘cos we were all doing much of the same speed. If I did I just dropped right back and if they really were slow ( 40mph lorries) overtook at the next opportunity. Its a road I know well and I know all the main overtaking places. Its the desire to overtake that creates the stress. Sitting back and chilling takes it all away. Trying to make progress puts you ( on this road) in a position of constantly searching for overtakes and as soon as you pass one car you come up behind another.

I was surprised how much less stressful it was and how little extra time it took

Remember that these are speed limits not targets.

Given that this is a cycling forum there are a significant number of posters who claim to drive in the very manner that many say frightens them enough not to cycle on the roads. Somewhat ironic.

I appreciate chances are slim, but are there any cyclists on this thread? Because it’s significantly nicer cycling on roads with a 40mph limit than a 60mph limit, even if some twunts ignore it.

EDIT: Whitestone, jinx!

OTOH of course lower speeds make sense to reduce emissions in places near towns

Traffic’s at a crawl whilst I’m choking on your fumes on my walk to work. 😐

Fine unless you’re doing a big mileage or, say, travelling the route every day.
If for example I was doing a 2hr journey, it would now be a 3hr journey. If I was doing that as a round trip…

Well I’d refer back to the actual OP about ‘sections’ of road (and I did ask how long they were) by the description I think we’re talking about small sections of a few miles tops, possibly less, not enforcing a 30% drop for 3 hrs solid.

I also caveated that those times were under ideal conditions, the real world isn’t ideal and $OTHER_THINGS will cause you to slow down and vary almost as much as a nominal drop in the speed limit, we’re not talking about motorways here after all.

On any long journey you’ll also be taking regular enough breaks that a few mins here or there pales into insignificance over the whole trip.

So I still call shennigans on the delay aspect of theargument, even if you are doing it every day, a few mins here or there is nothing.

The effect TJ describes is really valid, I think a lot of people make driving more stressful for themselves by the way they act, which then sets up expectations, and means the annoyances become greater and you become more sensitive to them, sometimes all that is needed is an adjustment to your own attitude, not always easy but worth a moment’s thought now and again 🙂

are there any cyclists on this thread?

Yeah!

Remember that these are speed limits not targets

Bull-sheeet!
I’ll travel as fast as I safely can, whether on four wheels, two wheels or two feet. 😀

Anyway, I’ve forgone car ownership so I can look down my nose at you lot. 😀
I now class drivers in the same group as people who have more than two children; selfish scum! 😛

the whole premise behind driving is that you have to assume it’s totally unpredictable the whole time and make allowances for this.

I’m not saying otherwise, of course.

My point is that when most drivers look before pulling out of junctions, they are expecting you to be doing 50-60 if it’s nsl. If you are some distance away, the driver may nit notice, and think there is plenty of room. Well in distance terms, there is lots of room, but your speed takes that room away.

To put it another way, defensive driving is good as you agree. But acting predictably to other people is part of defensive driving.

As a motorcyclist who makes full use of the national limit and sticks to posted limits, there is a definite type of Sunday driver who seems to do 40 everywhere. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve passed a car on an open rural road, only to find them right up my arse 5 minutes later as I potter at a max of 30 through a village.

Funnily enough when I did my advanced police driver course I found they follow similar rules to my own – stick to posted limits and make progress in derestricted/nationals. The instructor observed that we had to go further and further afield to find national limit rural roads as so many councils have changed them to 50; we spent more time in mid-Wales than in our home county of Oxfordshire.

And the proliferation of the 50 seems to have had an impact, as so many drivers do seem to sit at 50 even in nationals. Unintended consequence, perhaps.

None of which answered the OP…

Sunday evening is usually full of weekend/holiday traffic heading back to the Leeds/Bradford area so there’s no point in being aggressive and trying to overtake at every opportunity that would probably be a minute or two max in reduced journey time.

It still surprises me just how many A65 users can’t seem to work out that the next caravan/micra with hat on rear shelf is only 500 yards up the road, and the whole exercise of overtaking is usually pointless. There are only about half a dozen decent overtaking spots between Kirkby Lonsdale and Skipton anyhow, so there’s no way you’re getting past a big queue.

Remember that these are speed limits not targets.

That took longer than normal.

there is a definite type of Sunday driver who seems to do 40 everywhere

Monospeeders. They need dragging out of their vehicles and beating to death with a rolled up copy of The Highway Code.

There’s a section of my commute that goes 40 > 60 > 30 > 50 and pretty much daily I get the same thing: I catch up and overtake someone in the NSL section; then later they’re right up my chuff as I’m doing 30 in the 30 section; then on the last long straight of the 30 before it goes back up to 50 they’re looking to overtake me so that they can then do 10mph under the speed limit only in front of me.

I think a big part of it is that a lot of drivers have absolutely no idea what the NSL speed is.

makes it easier to make progress if everyone else is doing 40…
You’re right: reducing the speed limit increases the capacity of the road, reducing congestion and allowing everyone to make better progress.

That’s odd, every time I’m driving a section of road with 60/50/40 signs showing, you get three lanes of traffic nose-to-tail for whatever distance it’s displayed, then as soon as the signs are off, the traffic naturally spreads out as motorists drive at whatever speed they feel comfortable at.
The signs that say ‘congestion 40’ are a self-fulfilling prophecy; as soon as the traffic all slows to one speed then there’s automatically congestion.

there is a definite type of Sunday driver who seems to do 40 everywhere
Monospeeders. They need dragging out of their vehicles and beating to death with a rolled up copy of The Highway Code.

Or the Daily Mail…
Those sort of people drive me nuts, and always have done; doing an indicated 40mph on a road posted at 60 means they’re actually doing approximately 36, almost half of what they really could be doing, and driving at that sort of speed just causes frustration and encourages others to attempt to overtake at, often, inappropriate places.

This has happened near me. Nsl road droped to 50. During any remotely bussy time there is and always has been someone going ,45 but during off peak times the road is now significantly slower. Not a problem if you are going 10 min up the road but if you are on a long journey and every road has had this done it has a big effect on journey time.

Depressing reading, so many people happy to exceed an often already too high speed limit. Why do so many people feel entitled to complete lengthy journeys in short times? [Early coach travel was slow; in 1673, it took eight days to travel by coach from London to Exeter! ] The sooner all cars are driverless and keep to speed limits the better!

Monospeeders. They need dragging out of their vehicles and beating to death with a rolled up copy of The Highway Code.

😆

Depressing reading, so many people happy to exceed an often already too high speed limit. Why do so many people feel entitled to complete lengthy journeys in short times?

Because I have better things to do than being stuck behind a driver who has no idea about maintaining road speed doing 40 mph for no valid reason.

Always thought is was a council\police matter based on the road, incidents and other stats.

Struggle to work out how it works though, nearby village to me has tried to extend the 30mph a couple of hundred yards out so it’s past the sports field where the local kids football team play, been campaigning for years and council says no.

Another localish village has a school on a 40mph section and tried to get it reduced to 30 – also council says no.

Third village with no school got their 40 knocked down to 30 seemingly without trying. Either there are problems I don’t know about or a councillor lives there.

Yep, we get the monospeeders as well as the special drivers who seem to think driving a foot behind you will make you speed up and ignore the signs too.

GPS controlled speed limiters in cars, a bit big brother but probably the only way to cure selfish driving 🙂

Early coach travel was slow; in 1673, it took eight days to travel by coach from London to Exeter!

Good point, we should go back to have a man with a red flag walk in front of cars, then we’d all be perfectly safe.

so many people happy to exceed an often already too high speed limit

Speed limits haven’t increased since cars had zero safety features, drum brakes and crossply tyres all round. Speed limits on motorways should be increased if anything.

GPS controlled speed limiters in cars, a bit big brother but probably the only way to cure selfish driving

And there we go again, someone who’s been brainwashed into thinking that only speeding = bad driving.

Roads have also got busier, vehicles have got heavier, fuel has got more expensive, our knowledge of the environmental damage caused by burning hydrocarbons has improved and the protein robots in charge of driving them haven’t been upgraded at all.

agent007 – Member
Speed limits haven’t increased since cars had zero safety features, drum brakes and crossply tyres all round. Speed limits on motorways should be increased if anything…

Maybe that’s because people haven’t evolved past being squishy bags of blood and shit that break or cease functioning when struck with a car.

so many people happy to exceed an often already too high speed limit
Speed limits haven’t increased since cars had zero safety features, drum brakes and crossply tyres all round. Speed limits on motorways should be increased if anything.

Too easy.

Few more cars about these days.

In reported road traffic accidents in 2014:

road deaths increased by 4% compared with 2013, rising to 1,775.

the number of people seriously injured increased by 5% to 22,807 in 2014.

there was a total of 194,477 casualties of all severities in reported road traffic accidents during 2014

so driving a little bit slower seems a small price to pay?

And there we go again, someone who’s been brainwashed into thinking that only speeding = bad driving

Clearly by your own admission you are an especially gifted driver, but not everyone is – nobody I have seen has claimed that “only speeding =bad driving”, there are many causes of bad driving, one of which is the very common occurrence of speeding(we could all list many others). To deny that increased speed contributes to increased risk on the roads, is not an option.

Some people on here need to read wind in the willows. 😉

Depressing reading, so many people happy to exceed an often already too high speed limit.

Or on the other hand speeding when the safe speed is higher than the limit. For example this 0.4 mile long motorway slip road.

So one way traffic, one lane, good sight lines, to the right is the motorway to the left a fenced off railway. There is nothing on this road except cars going the same direction and the same speed. So why the 30mph limit at the start rather than at the end of the slip road.

https://goo.gl/maps/WXCrgu6BQHP2

. So why the 30mph limit at the start rather than at the end of the slip road.

I have no idea, someone who likely knows what they are doing had a good reason, maybe? But, how representative is this 0.4 miles? – because people break the speed limit on every stretch of road!

Threads like this make me want to give up cycling and driving because I really don’t want to be on the roads with some of you.

Not patient enough, eh?

That slip road – easy peasy – its to make sure the cars get down to 30 mph by the end and there is (If its the junction I am thinking of) often queuing traffic. tight junction at the end as well Maybe could be a bit further down but not a lot.

Not patient enough, eh?

Plenty patient enough. Also happy to see speed limits coming down.

That slip road – easy peasy – its to make sure the cars get down to 30 mph by the end and there is (If its the junction I am thinking of) often queuing traffic. tight junction at the end as well Maybe could be a bit further down but not a lot.

Nope the slip is 700m long. There are plenty examples of far shorter slip roads on the M8 without any accident history. That slip is off a 50mph section. There is no need to slow 50mph traffic down to 30mph 500m from the junction. At Easterhouse traffic exits from 70mph onto a far shorter slip road followed by a tight radius curve. No accident history.

That 30mph sign could easily be 400m further along the slip road without any danger.

There is a lot of guidance on suitable speed limits in the DMRB related to road layout, features, stopping site distance etc.

It even goes in to detail regarding the number of properties adjacent to sections of road. This isn’t always the final determining factor and you will find highway authorities playing it safe where local residents are vocal and siting of limits is broadly justified.

Hard to tell regarding specific cases but you might find there is significant accident history which, despite other road conditions being similar, suggested behaviour is different and requires lower limits.

OP could start by asking council for the reasons why the limit was reduced, officer decision report, etc

We have a hill with a round about at the bottom here that has gradually reduced the speed limit to 30 and people still over shoot and launch off a wall into a field or destroy the pedestrian crossing. People are idiots that’s generally why they get reduced. Previous are I lived in went from 60 everywhere to 50 and 40 in places after about a dozen Road captains did somersaults into field through brick walls and one half way up a tree. All in the space of a month.

All because they were

try and not use your brakes between the start and finish of the journey

Makes for some great moments on roundabouts

🙂

Not quite enough angst, nowhere near enough pages and I’ve been sick twice eating 3 family Christmas tins of biscuits.

All because they arrive at junctions and tight turns at 60+ because that’s the limit and you must do the limit +10% to make progress even on dark wet roads with sharp blind bends.