Cameron resigns – which goon will replace him?

The plan, surely, is to leave the EU.

That’s the plan eh? All of it?

Joe, have you been on holiday for the last month?

In case you missed it, 52% of the population have given the government a mandate to negotiate our exit of the EU. Crazy I know, but hey ho, that’s democracy for you.

Of course, in any negotiation there is another side….do you think we should have referendum to decide how the Europeans should approach the negotiations too?

In case you missed it, 52% of the population have given the government a mandate

Well… 26.7% of the population… or 37.4% of the electorate if you prefer.

Crazy I know, but hey ho, that’s democracy for you.

What’s even more Crazy is that most of them voted out thinking it would never happen; so there are only about 32 people who actually wanted the result they voted for…..

I think the people should vote on the government it thinks best to take forward the negotiations.

I can’t actually believe there is opposition to that, particularly when the winning campaigns central message was about the anti-democratic nature of the EU.

In case you missed it, 52% of the population have given the government a mandate to negotiate our exit of the EU

As on of the 48% of the people who voted, and voted to stay in, that is either very subtle humour (in which case chapeau) or a sloppy statistic thm. Still 5 minutes or so to edit it or add a winky. 😛

[edit] ah I see GrahamS beat me to it. I have faith in you though thm, I am sure it was a wink to the overall decisively high standard of statistics in the leave campaign.

Ok, fair cop, sloppy wording but nowt you can do with those who don’t vote.

If people don’t vote (or vote stupidly) then they only have themselves to blame.

Bottom line – the givernment has been given a mandate to negotiate Brexit. I don’t like the result but can’t cry undemocratic just because of that and the lack of detail. That just doesn’t make sense.

I think it’s reasonable to assume that the referendum gives May the mandate to leave Europe. I also think it would be silly to have a general election solely based on the Brexit issue. we need stability not X months of campaigning. This is coming from someone who would dearly love to remain.

However, what I am unclear about is why the papers are going on about May’s views on xyz. Surely beyond brexiting her mandate is to fulfil the conservative manifesto that was presented pre- general election whether she agrees with it or not? If her becoming p.m. will alter plans for policy/lesiglation away from the existing manifesto then there should be an election edit. I would have thought? Genuine Question rather than statement

Bottom line – the givernment has been given a mandate to negotiate Brexit. I don’t like the result but can’t cry undemocratic just because of that and the lack of detail. That just doesn’t make sense.

Do you believe the tories have a mandate to take us out, at any terms they deem suitable?

Ok, fair cop, sloppy wording but nowt you can do with those who don’t vote.
If people don’t vote (or vote stupidly) then they only have themselves to blame.

All true, but as I’m sure has been mentioned before, 37.4% of the electorate is not enough to be considered as a mandate for a legal public sector strike, never mind a massive constitutional change.

Democracy is a very odd beast.

I don’t like the result but can’t cry undemocratic just because of that and the lack of detail. That just doesn’t make sense.

As on the other thread – democratic doesn’t mean good, doesn’t mean right.. our country’s not governed by plebiscite.

Joe, it’s a negotiation FFS. You are beginning to sound like a Brexiter, or even worse a yS rep 😉

Graham, I am sympathetic to the idea. It’s is ludicrous to have such change on an anything above 50%. Truly absurd. But there it is….thats what we had and as some woman said today, Brexit is Brexit (although in time, she may just be wrong there 😉 )

teamhurtmore – Member
Joe, it’s a negotiation FFS. You are beginning to sound like a Brexiter, or even worse a yS rep

Just trying to guage your stance. I’ll take that as a “no you don’t”. 😉

Stance on what?

Do you believe the tories have a mandate to take us out, at any terms they deem suitable?

Yes

They earned that by winning the election in 2015, on a manifesto pledge of holding and implementing the results of an EU referendum

Which appears to be exactly what they are doing

Its a bit like when Scotland voted to remain part of the UK, in the full knowledge that one possible result of this (indeed one that Salmond specifically discussed prior to the indyref) might be the UK leaving the EU after a referendum.

Do you believe the tories have a mandate to take us out, at any terms they deem suitable?

If you don’t answer the questions, I am just going to have to guess.

Ouch 😉

ninfan – Member
Do you believe the tories have a mandate to take us out, at any terms they deem suitable?
Yes

They earned that by winning the election in 2015, on a manifesto pledge of holding and implementing the results of an EU referendum

Which appears to be exactly what they are doing

Its a bit like when Scotland voted to remain part of the UK, in the full knowledge that one possible result of this (indeed one that Salmond specifically discussed prior to the indyref) might be the UK leaving the EU after a referendum.

wow, just wow! 😆

Thats democracy unfortunately.

😀

It’s not a sensible question. It’s a negotiation – no party is going to have their own way.

We are about to through the greatest divorce in history – sadly – as the worlds 5th largest economy leaves the words biggest economic unit. It’s ridiculously complex, so the idea that any party is going to have free reign is bizarre. By the time we are half way through, we could well have a different government altogether.

But right now, the government in charge has to get on with it.

Yep, having not had to negotiate a trade deal since 1975, we’re now going to have to do 42 of them in 2 years!

No one in the UK civil service has the experience to manage one, let alone 42.

Completely insane situation.

Luckily we can outsource all the negotiation to immigrants in the EU, who do have the experience 🙂

teamhurtmore – Member
It’s not a sensible question. It’s a negotiation – no party is going to have their own way.

We are about to through the greatest divorce in history – sadly – as the worlds 5th largest economy leaves the words biggest economic unit. It’s ridiculously complex, so the idea that any party is going to have free reign is bizarre. By the time we are half way through, we could well have a different government altogether.

But right now, the government in charge has to get on with it.

That really depends on how quick the negotiations happen and how much nose cutting the incumbent government is willing to do.

Is the new brexit thread?

Here’s a question then. What happens if they can’t negotiate exit without terms that severely disadvantage the country – costing hundreds of thousands of jobs and so on. How could any government do that?

Well they cant – we know that. But at least we have control and can stop those nasty foreigners at our borders – look on the bright side

What happens if they can’t negotiate exit without terms that severely disadvantage the country

Highly likely.

One of three outcomes:

1) Endlessly delay A50 by continuing negotiations; in effect stay in the EU indefinitely
2) Public mood has changed after a prolonged recession, £ worth less than Dracma and we have a 2nd referendum, and vote to not leave the EU
3) Say F*** It and just quit and turn the UK into another Portugal / Greece…

I’d say 1 or 2 is most likely….

4) We make a go of it. I voted to remain, but we are where we are now.

We make a go of it.

There are no prizes for effort in the real world.

The tricky part of making a go of it is getting from here to there without making a right pigs ear of it and ruining many more lives than staying in would have damaged. Basically, are we prepared to risk hobbling an entire generation for a random punt in the dark, hoping that things somehow improve when we have no power or influence over any of it?

Basically, are we prepared to risk hobbling an entire generation for a random punt in the dark hoping that things don’t get worse than they are now?

Apparently we are.

I’m struggling to think why anyone thinks the EU would give favourable terms to the UK on leaving.

It’s going to be a competitor. Never feed the enemy is a useful business rule.

It’s going to be a competitor customer.

Basically, are we prepared to risk hobbling an entire generation for a random punt in the dark hoping that things don’t get worse than they are now?

Apparently we are. [/quote]

Only if you lie down and take it. I’m planning on fighting and resisting every step of the way. Whatever the outcome at least I can feel I followed my morals and acted in what I believe is best for my country. Taking back control if you will 😉

I suppose Teresa May could be the fall guy (what’s the female equivalent of a ‘guy’?) and when she becomes PM she just says ‘nope’ to Brexit. She’d be unpopular with the right wing of tory party and the Farages of this world, and she’d be called undemocratic (as if that’s the worst insult that can be levelled at an individual) but she’d be doing the right thing for the country. Here’s hoping.

I realise this is fantastically unlikely given her previous statements on Brexit. Eurgh.

are we prepared to risk hobbling an entire generation for a random punt in the dark

… based on a variety of emotional responses, in most cases…

I’m planning on fighting and resisting every step of the way

If you’ve got any ideas, beyond writing to my MP, I’m in.

.. based on a variety of emotional responses, in most cases…

You shouldn’t talk about remainers like that, they are grieving.

I think that Theresa May has a good chance of becoming an immensely popular PM.

“I suppose Teresa May could be the fall guy (what’s the female equivalent of a ‘guy’?) and when she becomes PM she just says ‘nope’ to Brexit. She’d be unpopular with the right wing of tory party and the Farages of this world, and she’d be called undemocratic (as if that’s the worst insult that can be levelled at an individual) but she’d be doing the right thing for the country. Here’s hoping.”

This. Civil servants are going to be explaining to her the detailed consequences of ‘leaving the EU’ (whatever that means exactly) and the consequences of not doing as the referendum requested.

She’s going to pick the lesser, and least politically damaging of those two evils.

If “leaving the EU” is likely to wreck the economy, she just won’t do it. She’d never get re-elected, ignoring the referendum would be far less damaging.

Its interesting that the Brexiters seem to be lining up their reasons why we won’t actually leave, see last Friday’s FT and even some of the more rabid FB groups when they can string a sentence together i.e. the gov’t who campaigned to remain hadn’t negotiated the exit prior to the referendum just in case.

She might win over just enough leavers by explaining how much of a balls up it would be and how unprepared we are to retain support and maintain her career.

Its interesting that the Brexiters seem to be lining up their reasons why we won’t actually leave

It’s possible options, nothing certain about it…