CairnGorm Mountain Railway borked

Has this been done yet? I’ve been away most of October

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/1583795/response-team-created-to-deal-with-consequences-of-cairngorm-funicular-railway-breakdown/

Gonna be a bit of a bugger if they can’t get uplift into the Ptarmigan bowl from the start of the season 😬

The whole back story is deeply concerning and worrying.

I’m sure scotroutes and other locals will be along in a moment to tell us more.

Meh. Not much to say. It’s a mess, a tragedy. One local business has already quit as a result. Lots of folk laid off or not being taken on for the winter season that they depend on. Folk on zero hours contracts getting, basically, zero hours. The new Tiso just opened and they must have a twitchy arse already. The knock-on effect will be felt in the accommodation providers, cafes and pubs. There’s a local community group been looking to take over management of the hill from Natural Retreats, though I don’t know if their business acumen matches their enthusiasm.

Not good for the town for sure – I’ve got friends who’ve bought season passes too. Might just be the tipping point for Natural Retreats? And I agree with scepticism around the business acumen of the community group. Something needs to change though.

It’s not a knock the community really does not need.

About the only positive might be if the ownership changes to something competent. Although I do worry about what agreements are in place between council and NR and how much damage is inflicted in the process of a change of owner.

 how much damage is inflicted in the process of a change of owner.

This has always been a concern. However, it’s possible that this could turn out to be exactly the right time if there’s a lot of pain to be suffered anyway.

2 season passes in our house. I’ll be contacting CML/NR and then my credit card provider to see what can be done about refunds.

If they’d left the Ciste chairlift in ….

A sorry tale whatever the real background is. Train has been superb esp for getting beginners up into the bowl – will create merry hell for access for beginners and/or mean they need a snow factory to churn out snow non stop to bash into access ways. Nightmare for the community irrespective of the ownership issues. Whoever take this on needs kahunas to do so.

Went up back in August. Seemed expensive and they didn’t let you get out of the building at the top due to “safety reasons”. However you could walk up on your own and that was fine. Basically seemed expensive for what it was.

Much prefer the cable cars at Fort William and you’re allowed out at the top 😀

Excuse my ignorance if it was in the article, but what exactly is the problem with it? Is it a particular structural concern?

Some structural issues with the track bed / foundations. The investigation is ongoing.

and they didn’t let you get out of the building at the top due to “safety reasons”

I think they don’t (officially) let you out due to legal reasons. It’s not a funicular to get you up the mountain, but a novel transportation device between 2 parts of a single retail establishment, or “something like that”.  One of the locals might be able to confirm the exact status.

They did let us in via the firedoor, and had to sign in. And they do sell 1 way down tickets in the shop. Although trying to explain to some Germans that it’s not like every single uplift in the Alps, was a bit strange. They thought it was more stupid than me.

Was there in summer (june? July? whenever it was really hot), and it was shut all week, which we assumed was for major maintenance.

Thanks oldtennisshoes

I thought the deal was they are only allowed to let a certain number of people out on top a day to protect the delicate eco system. You can buy tickets to get you outside at the top.

But Scottish right to roam means you are allowed to roam up there on your own!

Planning restrictions prevent most access out of the top station except for snow sports due to the alleged potential damage to the ecology of the plateau.

i wouldn’t be surprised to see that change in the near future.

Issue is with the concrete piers the track sits on being all out of whack and suffering structural issues. Not a simple fix.

On being “let out”.

It was obvious that building a railway to the top station would result in an increase in the number of folk getting there. The issue then was that the additional footfall would cause additional erosion/litter etc. as the train operates in conditions the previous chairlift couldn’t cope with and is also easier for the elderly, young and disabled. Obviously, this isn’t a concern in winter when it’s covered in snow. The funding was only obtained on the basis that there would be a closed system. If you walk/ride up then that’s fine and you can sign into and out of the building.

CML do led walks during the summer but numbers are tightly controlled.

There was an attempt at bike uplift but it was on rented bikes, you followed a ride leader and it was down the big, wide, steep, loose access track (i.e. no fun).

Nice view from the top though.

Sad times, best if luck to all involved.

I used the funicular when it first opened to go skiing, it got us up to the top but broke down during the afternoon. We had to ski back but there was only enough snow half the way, we had to walk the rest… in ski boots… that was fun… I don’t think it was ever the most reliable piece of engineering.

A lot more reliable than the chairlift…

The Scottish mainland and islands are littered with the detritus of failed business ventures. I can’t help feeling that this will just become another, except that it will take years to find a way of demolishing it.

Train has been superb

Apart from when it snows of course, and they’ve got to dig out the tracks and the tunnel 🙄

I don’t think it was ever the most reliable piece of engineering.

Nah it’s fine. Just a standard Poma (or whoever) product

The Scottish mainland and islands are littered with the detritus of failed business ventures. I can’t help feeling that this will just become another, except that it will take years to find a way of demolishing it.

yeah, it’s a wasteland populated by roaming hordes of ginger swigging gingers.😁 ‘Sake globalti that is a ridiculous generalisation.

Wrong time of year to discover it and have time to locate and fix the problems! Freezing temps will make laying new concrete difficult to say the least….

Yeah, was rather a strange comment sparks….

How important was this as a business?  I always thought of such things as a bit rubbish, based on the Snowdon one.  But I guess not.

I always thought of such things as a bit rubbish, based on the Snowdon one.

Well in Snowdon’s case it certainly turns the summit into a landfill site most weekends….

H”ow important was this as a business? I always thought of such things as a bit rubbish”

It is the local economy in wintertime.

It attracts swarms of people to the area who spend alot in the local economy.

Yes the winter climbers and a handful of ski tourers come but they are mostly tighter than submarine doors….

I sat on the chair lift for near on an hour in a horrific icy cross wind, I’d take the funicular any day.

Ah.. if it works as a ski uplift then it’s pretty different to Snowdon.

Plus the Snowdon one is a ground railway that goes through a few small cuttings that fill with 10ft of snow frequently so it closes for the winter.  And the summit of Snowdon isn’t a fun place to be in Winter anyway.

We stopped going to Cairngorm because of the queues and the cost. Mostly the queues.

Queues for the lifts.

Queues for tickets.

Queues for the lifts.

Queues for the hire.

Queues for the lifts.

Queues for the funicular.

Queues for the lifts.

Queues for the cafes.

Queues for the lifts.

Other places can have it bad (Glenshee, school holiday) but there is something particular about the seemingly vindictive nature of the queuing at Cairngorm.

Their “core lift” policy seems to be based decimating the uplift on the hill so you have to use the funicular.

Their “pricing” is laughable (as long as your not paying) – when only very few of the remaining lifts are running – full price, to you laddie!

When it’s all “open”, and not busy, and its not cloud covered, and its not blowin a hoolie, then it is very, very good. That particular intersection of circumstances very rarely seemed to occur.

The thing about the funicular – that it can run in force 17 hurricane winds – misses the obvious – you might be able to get to the Ptarmigan but step outside and BAM! Next thing you know your being blown over to Norway.

The “company” “running” the ski infrastructure wanted to build a dry slop on a place (IIRC) called Windy Ridge FFS. And have it kept snow free using antifreeze.

The other resorts increase and improve uplift and the general “experience” – Glencoe just keeps getting better and better. There is no fundamental reason why Cairngorm is so S@@t1e. it’s being dragged down by the HIE and the muppets “running” it.

dunno glenshee has it bad if its forecast a good day

the only time ive not experianced all the above at glenshee is when its forecast a shit day midweek and turned out to be a good day and ive by virtue of being time short ended up there anyway.

Those days are rare but so full of win.

The rest of the time glenshee suffers the same queuing issues as everywhere else …..except the lecht it only ever gets mad queues when its mad windy everywhere bar the lecht else due to its direction.

@trail_rat – Yes Glenshee can suffer but when it’s good…

…

How important was this as a business?

In the ’50s, Aviemore was a small village beside an old railway junction. They built the first uplift in 1961 and it became increasingly popular. A proper resort with cinema, swimming pool, skating rink and an “international class” casino followed in the mid-60s. Then came Freddie Laker, the liberalisation of airlines, some poor winters and, of course, the UKs entry to the EU. Increasing numbers of skiers started to visit the Alps and the rest of Europe. The resort became run down and was eventually demolished.

In an effort to survive, the local businesses diverged more into other tourism areas,often aimed at families – e.g. Landmark Forest Centre, the steam train, reindeer, paddling and, of course, biking.

Much of the old ski infrastructure was phased out when the funicular was built (to be fair, numbers hadn’t been what they once were) in particular the uplift in Coire na Ciste was allowed to wither and its remains were only removed recently. Supposedly, this operation cost £270,000. A report (not available at the time) showed it could have been re-instated for around £300,000.

The mountain is owned by Highland and Islands Enterprise, the Scottish Governments development agency, but managed by a company called Natural Retreats who were, supposedly, going to be bringing a lot of investment and management experience. This has been a shit-show from day 1. There is now a local community trust looking to take over ownership of the land and infrastructure with a view to (a) holding Natural Retreats to account and (b) eventually getting rid of NR.

Just to add to scotroutes post: I think that Natural Retreats put a load of staff on zero hour contracts, then announced the funicular was borked. I also read that the other resorts had been reviewed WRD Scotlands “living wage” (whatever that is) but Cairngorm was not.

Apologies if I am wrong about these things, after all it is the interwebs…

Thanks Colin.

It must be very hard to make a stable financial success out of a business like that, being totally at the mercy of the weather.

Can see the appeal of a CIC taking it over, but is the Scottish Gov likely to provide subsidy if it’s not a profitable enterprise? Are the wider economic benefits valuable enough to justify that? We’re told the French run their lifts at a loss in the summer to bring MTBers in.

The queues at Glenshee can be significant, but there are always multiple ways into the hill from the road and so it’s always quicker to get going. Plus the 3 valleys always provides some shelter from the worst of the weather. Getting the caenlochan lift back in for this season will be great. The catering, equipment hire and beginner facilities are still rubbish though.

The local Community Trust (AGCT) want to build a small hydro scheme in the Ciste. That would power a snow factory in Winter and provide income in Summer. The land already belongs to the Scottish Govt so there wouldn’t be any subsidy required for its purchase (unlike, say Assynt or Eigg). The current situation seems to be that any investment in facilities is either funded by HIE or will be a loan from HIE to NR. However, the financial affairs of NR are quite murky and it seems like a lot of income is being offshored. But yeah, it’s all very well for the Trust to have great plans, not so sure it’s all been thought through well enough.

I have always had a soft spot for Glenshee, in fact I had my first après Ski pint in the Blackwater, and that wasn’t yesterday. As Druid says, Aviemore was the place to go in the 70’s and 80’s. We used to go for the long weekend in February and it was heaving, with great ski conditions. Oh…and the death or glory go cart track…

Aviemore was the place to go in the 70’s and 80’s.

I learnt to ski there in the 80s on a week long SYHA course.