Aviemore was the place to go in the 70’s and 80’s

It was the place to go last week, just back from a fantastic October week up there.

I’ve always struggled with Aviemore in the winter. I’ve been snowboarding in Scotland for over 20 years now and never felt an affinity with Cairngorm, partly because Glencoe’s a good hour closer to home for me and it’s always been where I’ve naturally wanted to go. Pre-railway days I’d always thought the uplift at Cairngorm was laughably bad, relying on the M1 poma and Ciste t-bar for any kind of decent day always seemed completely at odds with skier numbers and what I’ve always perceived so much of their target audience to be (generalising obv. but people reluctant to ‘rough it’).

The funicular just screamed white elephant and I’ve always suspected there’d be an alarming true picture of the costs involved and who ultimately foots the bill. If the summit plateau is a SSSI then it seems insane to build an expensive permanent access system that has a massive caveat in how it can be used for half the year! The management of the hill has always seemed to have – at best – an offhand attitude to skiers, as alluded to above in comments about ticket prices on marginal days, queue management and so on and NR’s emphasis on having nice soup in the cafe and plenty of stuff to buy in the shop doesn’t suggest the actual experience of using the lifts (you know, the thing customers are actually paying for) is top of their priority list.

Compare this to Glencoe, where a single-minded, skier-driven approach to the management of the mountain over the past few years, coupled with some creative thinking about what else you can do in a beautiful, remote area is proving that making a success of a Scottish ski resort is not impossible.

Cairngorm should be the jewel in the crown of Scottish snowsports, given the location. It’s a tragedy that it isn’t.

Why not turn it into Bike Park Scotland? Uplift track already there.

They looked into that once, but found a Capercaillie poo within 53miles of the track so it was canned

but found a Capercaillie poo within 53miles of the track so it was canned

Those Scots will eat anything…

It must be very hard to make a stable financial success out of a business like that, being totally at the mercy of the weather

As I see it, the funicular was almost completely paid for by grants. It runs year round, attracting as many in summer as winter. They *could* be better at getting even more folk to pay to get up there, all year round. Winter is important, but Cairngorm was meant to be much more year round…

Why not turn it into Bike Park Scotland? Uplift track already there.

Mostly because of the access rules regarding planning permission for the funicular, and NR previously stated that they didn’t want to set themselves up in competition with Nevis Range. However, there is the prospect of operating something from the mid-way station. That provides uplift and a better area for bike-friendly gradients. I’d expect any initial trails to be “Blue” grade and a long fight against conservationists. Something running from there down to Glenmore could be made into a real attraction though.

Gawd yes, make it so!!!

They *could* be better at getting even more folk to pay to get up there, all year round. Winter is important, but Cairngorm was meant to be much more year round…

I thought part of the problem is that they don’t want people wandering around up there as it damages the environment.

IMO the funicular should never have been built.  It kind of implied Cairngorm skiing is something that it is not, which encourages more folk to go.

Keep it simple, keep it basic and you will just keep a certain type of winter sports enthusiast returning. Try and get too bling and you encourage more people to start with until they realise in reality its shit.

Everything conspires against Cairngorm skiing these days, the weather, the driving to get there, Aviemore, Europe. I learnt to ski and race in Scotland and can not thank it enough for the skills it gave me, but boy I will never rush back.

I learned to ski on the dry ski slope at Aviemore.

First pair of skis were gifted to me by one of The Trampies (local singers and instructors with Badenoch ski school)

Used to get dropped off at the bottom station with a ticket and some sandwiches by my parents and was left to fend for myself on the mountain from age 12. This would have been early 80’s

Loved it up there a whole week of skiing using all the tows and chairlifts.

Fast forward to 2015 after a 30 year gap and it was a whole different experience, only the bowl fully open and we had to pay full price.

I really do hope they get the funicular sorted for the start of the season!

So Brexit will make Aviemore great again!

I really do hope they get the funicular sorted for the start of the season!

That is very, very unlikely. There is talk of additional snow-making to get the tows from the car park operational but that still only leaves the M1 poma for uplift to the Bowl and that is well beyond the capabilities of most of the folk that make it up there normally.

I guess there is the possibility of running the funicular from mid-station to the top but that will depend on the results of the current survey/inspection work.

Mmm the M1 Poma and West Wall Poma (worse) are horrific to use. Even if they get enough snow made for the tracks of the Car Park T-Bar and Day Lodge Poma there will still be an issue with getting back down the hill – walk down in Ski boots anyone?

It’s not looking at all good for this season.

the driving to get there

Must be the best road from the south out of all the ski centres in Scotland to get to, I dunno why the A9 gets such bad press, drove it twice last week, and also down to Pitlochry and back from Aviemore to go to the enchanted forest one evening, it’s a great road.

They’ve know about the cracks in the concrete since 2016…

I think it’s HIE that need taken to task over the whole bloody shambles.

It’s absolutely disgusting that such an amount of public money has been frittered away on a pointless white elephant that most people didn’t want in the first place.

Lecht or Glenshee for me 🙂

They’ve know about the cracks in the concrete since 2016…

Well, apparently the 2016 issues were resolved. These are all “new” ones.

Lecht or Glenshee for me

The problem is that they also (kinda) lose out from this. If people aren’t going to Cairngorm they’re going other places, making the queues in those places even worse

Ski patrol mate told me Glenshee needs a surprisingly low number of busy days to break even, I am pretty certain it was 20 something.

WRT Glenshee, I understood 3 full carparks per season enabled them to break even. It is certainly below 20.

Cairngorm is struggling. The problem with the Funicular seems to be an apparent total lack of expansion joints along it’s entire length – nearly 2km of precast reinforced concrete for the elevated track bed – and the subsequent issues resultant in the numerous support towers.

While it is tempting to blame the current operator – who is sub-optimal at best – the issue long predates them and the original design and construction engineers need to be having a long hard look at themselves. The current operator appears to have known about these issues for a while, and does not appear to have a suitable plan as to how to ameliorate them. If part of the response is “We’re having an Xmas Market!”, then you know you’re short of the mark.

I have 4 season passes in the family, 2 of which are for small children (5&7) who will struggle to ride the Poma uplift, and will not be able to walk to the snowline if the snow is below the carpark. For those who are not familiar with Caringorm, the snow sure beginner areas for learning to ski are in a (relatively sheltered) bowl at the top of the mountain. In addition it appears that the cafe/toilets on the upper mountain will not be operational this winter. The facilities at mid-mountain been allowed to fall derelict, so the only opportunity for toilets/food is now at the carpark level. Not convenient, especially if you cannot ski back to this level.

I emailed Cairngorm on 11/10/18

Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing to seek reassurances regarding the operation of the snowsports area this coming winter season. I have read a number of press reports, including your press releases, regarding the current physical state of the Funicular infrastructure, and the corresponding impact on uplift capacity.

In May we renewed our Season Passes for our family – 2 adults and a 5yo and a 7yo. I am concerned that a further reduction in uplift capacity at Cairngorm may make the visitor experience so poor that I have, in effect, purchased an un-usable product.

If the Funicular is out of commission, my youngest child will not be able to access the Ptarmigan Bowl where he is likely to do the lion’s share of his skiing. We purchased Season Passes for Cairngorm specifically because of the Funicular access to a reliably snow-sure beginner area with a café/shelter nearby.

I am concerned that withdrawal of the Funicular uplift will have a dramatic effect on uplift capacity/visitor experience at Cairngorm Mountain.

I appreciate that safety should always be the number one priority, but I would also like the following questions answered please;

• Can you give a scheduled completion date for any remedial works planned?
• Is Cairngorm Mountain currently planning to use the Funicular this winter season at all?
• I note from your press release dated 11/10/18 that you state:

“A key component of the plan will be the potential to utilise snow making equipment at lower levels, making the mountainside accessible for beginners, and reducing congestion in other high traffic areas.”

– How many Snow Factories do you anticipate installing to guarantee uplift on the Lower Slopes?

• If uplift remains restricted come the commencement of the snowsports season, will overall ticket sales be restricted to compensate for lack of uplift capacity? – I note that further Season Ticket sales have already been suspended.
• If the Funicular cannot operate, will the Ptarmigan building (cafe/toilets) remain operational?
• If Season Ticket holders feel that the service that they have purchased is not being provided, will Cairngorm Mountain refund the cost of the tickets.

Regards,

To date I have no reply. I wonder how long I should wait…

Obtained under FOI:

http://www.winterhighland.info/cairngorm/FunicularRailwayConditionReport2016.pdf

Makes grim reading from a remedial point of view. Assuming the situation is economically recoverable this will cost many millions and the train will be out of action until Season 2020 at least.

And they cut out the Ciste infrastructure after this was produced. The HIE Board needs to be handed their jotters over the entire fiasco

Just bring back Santa Claus Land

There is some interesting background reading here.

Save the Ciste reporting there’ll be no Snow School this year.

Thatll be a major hit for local jobs. Wonder if they’ve had much in the way of bookings ?

And the snow has started to arrive.

View this post on Instagram

View from the window today #snow #aviemore #corrienaciste #vanning #ivecodailycamper #goniceplacesdogoodthings #sunisyettorise #trumakeepinguswarm

A post shared by Terry Davidson (@trail.rat) on Oct 26, 2018 at 11:44pm PDT

From Corrie na ciste this morning

Apologies for the Instagram link but seems to be the only way to post in here reliably without spending half an hour uploading and finding a link

Meanwhile

https://www.instagram.com/glenshee_ski_centre/p/Bpbn0y8g8wu/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=98agmoznzbwy

Yep NR have told ski school and rental staff no jobs for this season. Criminal way to run a business frankly.

Better to tell folk now than have them hanging on though. There is limited space at the Day Lodge for learning and not as much chance of snow as the bowl.

True but more that with no instruction or rental on mountain I’ll be interested to see what and if they actually even bother running lifts. Absolute killer for the area , even when the mountain was open people visited with the hope they could ski. I wonder if they just won’t bother.

OTOH no rental on the mountain means some for the other businesses and though I have no love for NR the roots of this problem lie with HIE. It’ll therefore be interesting to see what Govt support there is. A Snow Factory or two wouldn’t go amiss.

There’s a task force now looking at how the govt/council/local businesses respond. I guess part if that will be highlighting the other attractions of the area.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-46043596

Shut for the winter seems to be the likely outcome now.

Some good news though..

The development agency has given the warning in an announcement that it is reviewing the resort’s uplift infrastructure, and is investing £1m in a snowmaking machine and snow cannons to guarantee snow at lower levels to help salvage the latest snowsports season.

Still need to fix the trebauchet pomas though.

Still need to fix the trebauchet pomas though.

You’ve obviously never used the Harrier at the Lecht then, great fun, especially on a board! 😆

Anyone else seen this yet?

Sorry can’t find a non Facebook link….

https://www.facebook.com/Winterhighland/videos/1613554012082056/

Looks pretty exciting TBH…

Erm – are not all those mountain bike trails running right past the top station of the funicular, a place we are told is so environmentally delicate you are not even allowed to step outside??

Rachel

Looks like repeating some of the same mistakes.

Windy Ridge isn’t a good location for MTB and the roller coaster (the hint is in the name). Both should be lower down- potentially ending at Glenmore.

Avoids the Ciste (again) despite it having some of the most consistent snow. A high-speed chair in the Ciste would immediately increase uplift and could be installed without impacting on Cas-side developments.

Anyroadup- they need to ditch NR.

AGCT AGM is tonight.

Oops – I meant tomorrow night!

Rachel – there are already tracks down through that area. The erosion concern was mostly about the area above the Ptarmigan and over to Ben Macdui

Hey Rachel! How’s it going? I actually did a baseline erosion survey up there, right after I graduated from Stirling with my shiny new Ecology degree, back in 1998. I took the initial measurements that would then be added to annually, and used to assess the impact that the expect increase in footfall from the funicular railway would have on the mountaintop. If I remember correctly, and as I understood it at the time, the measurements we were recording would help to assess the total impact of the railway, which at that time was going to be ‘trialled’ on the mountain, with it’s long term future depending on how much it increased tourism and how this would impact on the mountain environment. Scotroutes is correct when he says the main focus was on Cairngorm’s summit and the route over to Ben Macdui. If memory serves, the plateau has an ‘alpine tundra’ ecosystem that is really quite fragile. So, when the funicular finally got the go ahead, it was only on the provision that folk taking the railway to the Ptarmigan restaurant would have limited access to the summit. You could only get to the summit and then onward, over the plateau by good old fashioned legwork from the bottom of the mountain.

All the stuff that’s proposed on that there Facebook thingy is on the side of the mountain that’s pretty much been beaten to death anyway and is much lower down than the really fragile higher altitude environment. Quite fancy the roller coaster, but you can keep the zipline thanks!

Avoids the Ciste (again) despite it having some of the most consistent snow. A high-speed chair in the Ciste would immediately increase uplift and could be installed without impacting on Cas-side developments.

Totally agree with this Colin. They really seem to want to make a point of not using the Ciste side when it always has the longest laying snow. Have they literally got some secrets buried in there!?!

Reverting to the Ciste now would be admitting they were wrong. That’s never going to happen.