British IS female wants to come back to UK…

I don’t think anyone in Gilead can afford to turn away a fertile young woman regardless of her background

@athgray that doesnt blow my mind at all. I know how low men and women can go, im not walking around with my head in my arse carrying on like we’re living in a disney movie.

The world is full of bad apples, injustice and also naieve people who dont really grasp the really perverted things that people do.

Theres no magical de-radicalisation chamber in a back room at MI5.

Here just pop yerself in that de-rad chamber Shami.. we’ll have you a nice brew in just two secs. Aye.

Here just pop yerself in that de-rad chamber Shami.. we’ll have you a nice brew in just two secs. Aye.

To sound like ransos here but nobody suggested there is. She may face charges and be I incarcerated. She may be under surveillance for the rest of her life. I went further to suggest that information we gain from her may be valuable to help prevent radicalisation of others.

Gotta love the liberals who think she “made a silly little mistake”. No, she didn’t. A silly little mistake is nicking a cassette single from HMV, it’s lobbing snowballs at a passing double decker bus, it’s sneaking a bottle of whisky into school and getting hammered during music lesson, it’s crashing your mate’s motorbike into a tree with your other mate on the back. Some perspective is required I think!

This girl joined one of the most feared and gruesome regimes to have ever existed, she observed their actions and maybe took part (consider the act of joint enterprise in the UK), she did that willingly regardless of media influence, backed their cause and stayed loyal for 4 years – and is seemingly still loyal if we take her lack of remorse to mean as much. Whether she returns to the UK or stays where she is she has to face the consequences of the choices she made. In my opinion she’s a despicable human deserving of zero sympathy, who simply wants to return to the UK to see her unborn baby have a better chance of survival, it has nothing to do with wanting out of the regime to which she belongs.

Genuine question, is there actual evidence that she was radicalised as opposed to choosing to join? I have no real idea of how radicalising somebody works, but surely there has to be something there to begin with for it to work.

Gotta love the liberals who think she “made a silly little mistake”.

I see. Who think s that?

I see. Who think s that?

iolo – page 4 – “This is a silly girl who realised she made a mistake”

interesting article on R4 PM; some legally savvy correspondant person who said that whatever we think of her, and all that’s been said about making her choice and we won’t intervene unless she gets to a consulate and asks for help – if her baby survives being born into a refugee camp it is a british citizen that has rights and no past history.

And because we place the rights of the child among our highest principles, so there may then become a moral and legal ‘obligation’ to intervene and protect the child. Which may in turn mean rescuing her as well because the best thing for the child is probably to be with its mother even if down the line social services and foster care comes into play.

iolo – page 4 – “This is a silly girl who realised she made a mistake”

I see. So in 6 pages, you’ve found one post that doesn’t quite say what you claimed.

djglover

Member
She was groomed

I haven’t read the thread, so I assume this point has probably already been made but:

If we were talking about a 15 year old white boy groomed for abuse by Jimmy Savill, would you have the same views

If we were talking about a 15 year old white girl groomed for sex by Asian grooming gangs would you still have the same views

She is a victim the same as these groups right? We should put our arms around (metaphorically) her and help right?

Looks like you got your own little discussion going on here.
If your trying to make a link towards radicalisation and grooming … then you have seriously failed; do you even know the difference between the two??

I see. So in 6 pages, you’ve found one post that doesn’t quite say what you claimed.

Just one example of many. How else would you interpret it? But that is somewhat beside the point. Maybe you’d care to comment on the remainder of my post? That the gravity of what she’s done and the beliefs she held, and likely still does, seems lost.

Wiganer

Just one example of many. How else would you interpret it?

Only one person to my knowledge said ‘silly’ which you then ran with to make a point.

I personally think the mistake she made is very grave, as a child she has undergone some horrific experiences which may or not go someway to how she presents herself in a short BBC interview. Do we know the full extent of the relationship she has with her husband having entered into marriage at 15 or 16?

There is so much we do not know so I will not jump to call her despicable, but I want to know how a 15 year old can be conditioned not to be phased by severed heads in a bin. That is best done with proper interviews with professionals in a variety of fields. That is most likely to happen in the UK.

Maybe you’d care to comment on the remainder of my post? That the gravity of what she’s done and the beliefs she held, and likely still does, seems lost.

If you disagree with me, what is the best way to ascertain what she still actually believes beyond your hastily formed opinion?

I see this thread has brought out quite a reaction. As is typical there are the hardliners and someone shouting “snowflake” at any passing caring sentiment towards her and her unborn child.

Genuine question, is there actual evidence that she was radicalised as opposed to choosing to join? I have no real idea of how radicalising somebody works, but surely there has to be something there to begin with for it to work.

Which is is always a question I like to ask myself in situations like this. How can it be proven, the evidence? From summary reports so far it looks like those that groomed her have been killed or are unable to comment for other more serious reasons.

There is a great weight of media profiling weighted towards Radicalisation and being Radicalised. It’s always tipped towards “xxx has been radicalised therefore don’t presume guilt before a trial”

Me? I always think there are traits within humans that we fully don’t understand, and we make a profiles up to fit neat little boxes so the masses can vaguely understand the topic and subject matter.

In this instance I feel that whilst a British Citizen she should be able to contact the UK for assistance, that’s a right any citizen has. Thereafter she should be subject to questioning and if a case found against her she should… like any British Citizen, be tried in a Court if Law.

As for making her own way to a Consular location, that is the same procedure no matter who/where you are (unless in a war situation, which we are not)

I do however err towards a feeling that her life she chose hasn’t gone all that well, she has (maybe still does) support a known terrorist organisation that has inflicted harm on other citizens, it’s own citizens and those of other nationalities including British Citizens. That last element leads me to believe we should assist in her repatriation and investigate for crimes against British Citizens (should any charges be brought)

I am however not that compassionate in this situation, as has been stated ^^ she chose to support terror, chose to act terror on others and now realises her life has a finite end where she currently is. Therefore, she must make her own way to the consulate and suffer any inflictions one the way, once she crosses the gates however she should be subject to the UK rule of Law, like everyone else.

In my opinion she’s a despicable human deserving of zero sympathy

for going, or wanting to come back?

She’s a British Citizen AFAIK, unless her citizenship has been taken away or there’s a temporary ban on her travel rights, which means if she gets to somewhere with consular services, she can come back (whether we like it or not)

I’ve been in the car a lot today, and I’ve heard that flat dull monotone that she speaks in, a few times now, and it still sounds to me like some-one with no emotion and I imagine that if you’ve seen the things she’s seen (her other children die, be-headed people’s heads in bins) then I think it’d not be surprising that she would be emotionless, it could be a survival mechanism. I’m also not surprised that she still thinks she has no regrets, she been propagandised at for the last 4 years, she probably doesn’t know right from left until her Imam tells her.

I think overall, as a country we should clear up our own mess.

stayed loyal for 4 years

Did she though ? Once you getoff the bus at band camp and they start showing you the pictures and what will happen if you don’t toe the party line start to escape , your parents back in Britain will get the chop etc..,

Once the fantasy is over do you run and hope you make it or hope your rescued or killed off

I’d pretty much echo what wiganer said up there ^

MAybe it’s worth doing a cost analysis on how much it will cost to keep her and her child here for a lifetime, including treatment, housing, surveillance etc.
Then take that money and give it to the kids who had limbs torn off at the Manchester arena.
Leave her with her IS buddies.

iolo – page 4 – “This is a silly girl who realised she made a mistake”

She was 15. What part of that sentence is incorrect?

Then take that money and give it to the kids who had limbs torn off at the Manchester arena.
Leave her with her IS buddies.

And then in plain English, I question my own position on the situation.

You do indeed have a valid point.

She’s a British national who made a poor life choice as a child. I see no reason not to let her back in. I would also caution against judgment on anything reported on the media on such a subject. I cannot envisage her poor life choice having much impact on my life. Unlike the 52% of the British population who also made a poor a life choice which threatens to bring down UK society as we know it.

iolo – page 4 – “This is a silly girl who realised she made a mistake”

She was 15. What part of that sentence is incorrect?

That she has realised that she made a mistake. She claims to have no regrets therefore doesn’t see her choice as a mistake.

Unlike the 52% of the British population who also made a poor a life choice which threatens to bring down UK society as we know it.

And FFS can we not discuss anything without leaving the EU being brought in to it.

I look after people who are about to be released from hospital and have done far worse things than this woman.

However, they are ill and have received years of medical care and rehabilitation. They’ve served their sentences.

I’m conflicted on this one.
She can believe whatever she likes, but her actions supported a vile regime.

If she cares about the child so much (and why wouldn’t she?) I’m sure there are many people in the UK who would be prepared to adopt.

MAybe it’s worth doing a cost analysis on how much it will cost to keep her and her child here for a lifetime, including treatment, housing, surveillance etc.
Then take that money and give it to the kids who had limbs torn off at the Manchester arena.
Leave her with her IS buddies.

No let’s not.

It is annoying when people say that we should only spend the money to do one thing over another when in actual fact we should do both. It like the argument to say we should not house an immigrant because there is a homeless squad die on the street.

What we should not have spent money on and is being talked about on another thread is £58 million on designs for a weed covered footbridge over the Thames.

This young woman has a child soon to be born in a refugee camp. There are whole documents on the rights of children to an identity and not be stateless. I have just had a look. These are sensible documents covering basic human rights for our young. These are the kind of documents that would have those that want to flog everyone with a copy of the Daily Express frothing at the mouth.

The whole argument about judging her and her unborn child based on very few if any solid facts is similar to a thread on here a while back where people were prepared to hang a yoof after an elderly gentleman died a few days after an attack.

These people had nothing to go on but a limited Facebook post to jump to a conclusion of bring back the death penalty.

Some people bring horrendous prejudice to bear on a topic which blinds them to ask any real probing pertinent questions or doing the most basic research. The how, what, where, why and who? Let’s not bother finding out stuff, just get the pitch forks out I have made up my mind Jack.

Sympathy, handwringing or condemnation, and whatever string of adjectives you’d like to apply, is anyone suggesting we suspend UK and international law for this person? If not, then she’s a UK subject with the right to come back here, and face the legal music. Everything else is hot air.

Or does the law only apply to some people?

Some people bring horrendous prejudice to bear on a topic which blinds them to ask any real probing pertinent questions or doing the most basic research. The how, what, where, why and who? Let’s not bother finding out stuff, just get the pitch forks out I have made up my mind Jack.

Good point. The same thing happened the other week there to those catholic school kids with MAGA hats vs the Native American.

She didn’t just **** up…. She is a **** up.

Let her back by all means, but make an example of her. Lock her up for years.

Or don’t let her back. She chose to go and be a part of that madness. I think the only reason she wants back is the fact she has seen two of her kids die already and can see what’s written on the wall for the third of she doesn’t get out of the chaos of her choosing.

I know she was 15 when she disappeared. At 15 I was a bit of a dickhead, but I knew the difference between being a dick and something evil.

I would also lay blame at her family for allowing her to get to the point that she thought it a good idea to offski, but heard on World at One that the police and other authorities were aware of her.

Was also interesting to her from people in the East End what they thought of her decision to come home to the place that she chose to leave…. The majority were not in her side.

This young woman terrorist has a child soon to be born in a refugee camp.

FTFY.

I think overall, as a country we should clear up our own mess.

Which clearly she is part of, & there’s plenty more where she came from. IMO once youv’e decided to take terrorist action against your own country/countrymen, a cause which she has been supporting for the last 4 years, then that’s it, no way she should be coming back here.

‘Face trial’ How? Ask her if she did or didn’t do this & that?
Would you trust a terrorist?

If she and the child come back, some poor bastard of a social worker is going to have the case from hell land on their desk with immediate effect!

Interesting quote from someone who has been involved in high level CT work.

A pregnant British teenager who fled to Syria with two schoolfriends to marry an Islamic State fighter should be “given a chance” and allowed to come home, a former director of global counter-terrorism at MI6 has said.

Shamima Begum is just a teenager. Britain should be strong enough to take her back.
Describing Shamima Begum as “a 15-year-old who went badly off the rails”, Richard Barrett said British society should be strong enough to reabsorb her.

I’d think it’s for a court of law to decide that.

As i said, I’m still struggling to see how “getting pumped” is a criminal offence.

I’m pretty sure they might have a reasonable case for membership of a terrorist organisation, which I believe is a crime.

breatheeasy

I’m pretty sure they might have a reasonable case for membership of a terrorist organisation, which I believe is a crime.

If ‘they’ have that case, then why are they happy to leave her roaming the world with her liberty intact?

I actually find it odd, that most people that class her as a terrorist don’t want her tried with, erm terrorism.

Well, there a strong possiblity she won’t make it back to BLighty, so there won’t be a Daily Mail uproar to handle, and it’s cheaper, to think of two.

And the plod aren’t exactly gonna pop into Yemen in a patrol car to pick her up.

^^^ lol really ?

Someone, for good but probably for bad, is already on their way to get her.

££££

In fact she’s probably half-way here.

case for membership of a terrorist organisation, which I believe is a crime

Would be interesting. Not sure she’s ever admitted membership of the proscribed organisation (ISIL) just that she wanted to live in the caliphate or if she ever invited support for the same

I skipped to the end of the thread to see if 6 pages was enough for the hang’em an flog’em brigade had crawled out of the woodwork. Seems my suspicions were correct. Thankfully I have a different view as Mrs Daz is good mates with an ‘ISIS wife’ who’s husband killed himself in a suicide bombing in Syria. I can assure you all that these cases are far more complex than a simple black and white ‘betraying your country’ decision. In her case it was a tragic case of her husband being radicalised at the hands of the US army in guantanamo, and the love and devotion of a wife who was desperate to save him and reunite him with their kids. I suspect there is more to this story too.

Someone, for good but probably for bad, is already on their way to get her.

This way Madam, if you care to step onto this blacked out plane, our Blackwater pilot will have you home in a jiffy….

TiRed

Member
… I cannot envisage her poor life choice having much impact on my life. Unlike the 52% of the British population who also made a poor a life choice which threatens to bring down UK society as we know it.

Try explaining your twisted logic to a family member of someone murdered by ISIS in this country. I am pretty sure they too would agree with me that your an idiot; whether they voter leave or Remain.

I cannot envisage her poor life choice having much impact on my life.

No but maybe you’re not gay, Jewish, Christian or Atheist. (Actually I’d have thought there’s a very high chance you are one of those.) I appreciate we’re going to have to take this family if they choose to come here but you really have to admit that bringing in a family who, if they could, would kill almost everyone out of sheer bigotry is sub-optimal to say the least.

This young woman has a child soon to be born in a refugee camp. There are whole documents on the rights of children to an identity and not be stateless.

From earlier posts it looks like this child will have an abundance of nationalities: Syrian, Dutch and UK.

Some other random thoughts. Why does the family need to get to a UK consulate? Syria have already said they want rid of as many ISIS fighters as possible ASAP, the last thing they want is to look after ISIS fighters indefinitely so they’ll be more than willing to pop them on a plane with no questions asked and let the UK/Netherlands authorities sort it out Airside at Heathrow/Skiphol.

I was also thinking about the life this family chose. When they turn up in a new town, do we think they found accommodation and paid rent? Or did they randomly accuse a local family of being Gay/Jewish/Christian/Atheist and kill/evict/enslave them and help themselves to the place? I know what I’m going to bet.

In 4 years time this September there’s going to be a classroom of Reception year primary School kids who will have a classmate who was conceived specifically to serve ISIS and who is being told at home that Gay people should be murdered.

I fully accept this woman is morally and legally Britain’s problem and it’s inevitable that the Syrians will (quite reasonably) dump the family on us or Holland but this is not a happy situation for the UK.

I’m got intense sympathy for the victims of ISIS (Jojo Dixon, son of Sally-Anne Jones often springs to mind) but for the perpetrators not a drop.

I also wonder what happened to John Cantlie.

hang’em an flog’em brigade

Oh yeah, anyone opposing Isis is definitely the hanging and flogging side of the debate… [1]

https://www.google.com/search?q=hung+by+isis&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwibxLqZk7zgAhUfUhUIHW5xAsAQ_AUIDigB&biw=1242&bih=597

https://www.google.com/search?q=isis+flogging&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjBibjYk7zgAhUytXEKHQbcBbIQsAR6BAgFEAE&biw=1242&bih=597

[1] Yes, that is sarcasm.

That the gravity of what she’s done and the beliefs she held, and likely still does, seems lost.

While I deplore her stated beliefs, do we know what she’s actually done?

I was also thinking about the life this family chose. When they turn up in a new town, do we think they found accommodation and paid rent? Or did they randomly accuse a local family of being Gay/Jewish/Christian/Atheist and kill/evict/enslave them and help themselves to the place? I know what I’m going to bet.

In 4 years time this September there’s going to be a classroom of Reception year primary School kids who will have a classmate who was conceived specifically to serve ISIS and who is being told at home that Gay people should be murdered.

You are rambling and making stuff up. How do you know what will be going on in the house or classroom in four years time of a child that has yet to be born to a woman you have never met?

You must be set to win the sweepstake on the babies name or the guess the weight competition when its born?

While I deplore her stated beliefs, do we know what she’s actually done?

No ransos, people are just making **** up to suit their prejustice.