British IS female wants to come back to UK…

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  • British IS female wants to come back to UK…
  • rene59
    Member

    The kid can be taken into to care, she should be left where she is. People saying she should be let back in like she is the victim here are the same people wondering how the right are making gains all over the place.

    Premier Icon somafunk
    Subscriber

    If she does come back then prosecute her for recruiting further isis baby makers and spreading an abhorrent ideology, remove the child from her and place it in the adoption system as she is not fit to bring a child up….nah **** her……..remove her child, take her round the back of the house and introduce her to an isis bin

    So she should have just picked up her two children and walked out of there? Caught the number 5 bus to Raqqa International and caught the first EasyJet out? Got her Isis mates to loan her a phone so she could call up the Home Office?

    Or was she maybe concerned about her head ending up in a bin if she tried that? Sounds like it might have been on the cards.

    mooman
    Member

    Of course she was a naive 15 year old when she left the UK. I very much doubt she understood much if any of the consequences of doing so, and very likely broke the hearts of her parents and close family. The problem then was that she was influenced, or radicalised as the buzz word goes, by someone.
    Now whilst becoming radicalised isnt like catching a cold; just something you go too near and it infects you … you got to have a certain level of leaning towards that ideology to start. So whatever illogical beliefs she had to initially join IS … they will have only been further reinforced in the years since. Losing close friends and your own children as a result of an enemy would be a good way of reinforcing any hostilities.

    Now reading that BBC article its hard to accurately gauge her feelings of remorse etc; the reporter could be biased and make it sound as he wanted. Although being one the last IS to leave their last remaining areas could suggest her being part of the hardcore few who chose to follow their ideology to the very end … well almost the very end!

    The real concern would be bringing her back she could inflict the heartbreak her own family suffered by influencing other to join IS type groups; this could be by directly expressing her freedom of speech, or simply just being that person who joined IS and returned no questions answered when it suited her ..

    She will be back as others have also been allowed back in. Only issue being she is higher profile.

    PJay
    Member

    I’m torn on this one (but my gut is saying “she’s made her bed”) but I do think that citizenship is a right like freedom that can be rescinded if you break the law; we’ve already stripped IS fighters of citizenship – https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/30/uk-has-stripped-150-jihadists-and-criminals-of-citizenship

    Her “no regrets” comment won’t help her I’m afraid and there’s going to be concern as to whether she wants to return to use state resources to raise 3 new IS radicals; then again there’s such a thing as redemption.

    Now whilst becoming radicalised isnt like catching a cold; just something you go too near and it infects you … you got to have a certain level of leaning towards that ideology to start

    Of course. The decisions of 15 year olds are never influenced by their peers. I hear they are thinking of taking the word ‘grooming’ out of the dictionary too, because that’s not a thing any more.

    xcracer1
    Member

    So ISIS are on the brink of loosing and she now wants to come back!! No chance.

    So the question is, are there ideas that, no matter how sincerely held, make you incompatible with living in normal society?

    She thinks that a head in a bin doesn’t matter because of the ideas it once held. But she wants us to treat her head like the ideas inside don’t matter?

    Remembering the stuff isis were putting online at the time she decided to go join them, its hard to say she didn’t know what she was getting into.

    Turns out it was a bad decision, but it sounds like she’d still be there in a society based on religiously sanctioned slavery, rape and murder if things hadn’t gone whoopsie for the murderous little shits.

    We should do for these people what we did for Hess after WWII. Give them a nice prison or island under international control, keep them safe, give them more than one book to read and make sure they don’t leave.

    I’ll probably go to hell for using this quote in this context but: “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” Maya Angelou

    Maybe the only good thing to come out of ISIS was that it let the worst people in the world stand up and single themselves out.

    Lets do the only moral thing. Take them at their word and keep them away from everyone else.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Subscriber

    People saying she should be let back in like she is the victim here are the same people wondering how the right are making gains all over the place.

    So your solution to right wing populism is to become more right wing and populist?

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    Some people need to understand the requirements of international law and the global ramifications of nations choosing to ignore it.

    brakes
    Member

    Whilst I’m torn on this one, I’m leaning towards one side of the argument. But as others have said the BBC article might be reflective of the BBC’s right-wing leaning.
    I would rather take a repentant refugee of ISIS from the same camp, even if they weren’t a UK national.

    Some people need to understand the requirements of international law and the global ramifications of nations choosing to ignore it.

    that’s the job of the Home Office, we’re having a philosophical debate.

    I think ETP has it. Bring her back, hell bring all of them back, stick them on an island and then we can figure it out. St Kilda would be a good start.

    International law isn’t a tit for tat affair. You can’t just say yeah but caliphate then strip someone of inalienable rights.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Subscriber

    that’s the job of the Home Office, we’re having a philosophical debate.

    The universality of rights is a part of that debate.

    athgray
    Member

    The kid can be taken into to care, she should be left where she is. People saying she should be let back in like she is the victim here are the same people wondering how the right are making gains all over the place.

    Exactly what ransos said. You enjoying being on the right wing side?

    If and when Syria finally has a sensible and stable government, why would they wish foreign born IS fighters and sympathisers to remain there? It’s very arrogant to assume the decision to let them rot should be with us.

    I also think it is all fine and well us discussing what we think motivates a 15 year old child to travel to the middle east to join IS, but the best source comes from the individual in question and I do t mean from a BBC interview.

    Premier Icon funkmasterp
    Subscriber

    I think the government will have to bring her (and her two friends) back eventually

    Bringing one of her mates back might prove to be problematic. I hope the government really like jigsaw puzzles with really tiny pieces.

    mogrim
    Member

    No sympathy from me but just saying that Western Democracy must live up to what they preach.

    FFS I find myself agreeing with chewkw.

    So your solution to right wing populism is to become more right wing and populist?

    It’s not like separating children from their parents at borders hasn’t already been a success. I dunno, maybe keep them in cages too?

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    that’s the job of the Home Office, we’re having a philosophical debate.

    1. Yes, let’s leave the debate to that famously competent government department led by the hugely capable Sajid Javid. It’s not like he’s known for poor judgement, huge bias or as a talentless fool.

    2. This debate if it was ever purely or largely philosophical, has not been for some time. An especially poor point as I was referring to someone else’s non-philosophical post.

    Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    Listening to the government line on r4 this morning, sounds like a fairly pragmatic, we’ll deal with her according to the rules if she makes it somewhere with consular support but no-one is going to be put at risk to ‘rescue’ her.

    Seems fair.

    FunkyDunc
    Member

    On the radio this morning it was very clear she has to approach a consulate before anything could happen.

    However, then the media wades in, ill informed public get involved and before we know it politicians are bringing her back.

    Premier Icon eddiebaby
    Subscriber

    Did she vote Leave?

    Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    and before we know it politicians are bringing her back.

    Corbyn? He’s got form with terrorists… 😉

    dc1988
    Member

    Was it naïve of her to have this interview, or just naïve to insinuate that she only wants to return home for the healthcare. Would she want to go back to Syria once the child is healthy and can fend for itself?

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    A 15 year old who ran away from home. Has had two children die. Seen horrors of war.

    Not even a sliver of compassion? Just straight to “**** that bitch”?

    I’m struggling to find compassion for her (I’m trying though), even if she was 15 when she was indoctrinated she has seen it for 4 years now and seems to have no regret and remorse.

    I am more compassionate towards her unborn child (and 2 dead children) who didn’t make that decision and if she is left there ‘to rot’ will probably rot with her.

    But I don’t know how to square the two. Is she responsible for her children and in making her choices has condemned them and it’s now just collateral damage? Aren’t we supposed to be better than that?

    scotroutes
    Member

    Thousands of German, Italian and other POWs settled in the UK after WW2. They were allowed to stay, to bring their families, to contribute to our society and they weren’t even British to begin with.

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    Would she want to go back to Syria once the child is healthy and can fend for itself?

    I don’t mind her child coming to the UK – it’s guilty of no crime at all.

    globalti
    Member

    I feel very little sympathy. She joined a movement that wanted to wipe out our way of life and now that’s failed, she wants to come back and take advantage of everything that our way of life has to offer; safe hospitals, hard-won medical expertise, security and presumably social benefits. My first reaction is to tell her to Foxtrot Oscar but then I think that by allowing her to return we show humanity and decency. I don’t expect she will realise that though; she seems pretty cocky to me.

    Premier Icon dirkpitt74
    Subscriber

    I don’t think anyone with links to ISIS or whatever should be allowed back.
    If you bugger off to join a terrorist organisation it should be treated as treason.
    Turn her over to the Americans and let her rot in Gitmo, or send out some SAS hit squads and just get rid.
    No guarantee she could be de-radicallised.

    Morally she’s our problem and we need to take her back. (As someone else pointed out, as things stand that could well involve taking her Dutch ISIS fighter husband as well because of their right to family life.) I doubt any of us are overjoyed at taking on people who think chucking gay people off buildings is desirable but I don’t see why that’s another country’s problem.

    Legally Google says it isn’t legally possible to make someone stateless but the BBC say:

    “There is a distinction between those who have been actual fighters and have been involved in atrocities themselves. In the case of some of them, the British government has removed their British citizenship and they are effectively stateless.”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47229181

    So maybe there’s some wiggle room to legally avoid taking them on, but I’m not sure that helps us much because we can’t reasonably leave other countries to sort out our nasty citizens IMHO. ~8 people per 100,000 die in childbirth so with luck the problem might sort itself out.

    Boba Fatt
    Member

    having listened to her lack of empathy and how she described a “head in a bin” , I personally think that she made her bed so either stay where you are or come home and face justice for being a willing member of a terrorist orginisation who took part in genocide.

    She wants her baby to be looked after? fine, there are a lot of childless couples who would be happy to adopt. Surely that would be preferable if her thoughts are only of her child.

    Premier Icon jekkyl
    Subscriber

    Let her come back but make her life really really hard,
    .1st off no wifi or 4G signal, she has to make do with 3G.
    .She has to live in Peterborough eating only brussel sprouts.
    Her only form of transport is a ‘mansized’ steel Apollo mounting bike from facebook with a ‘back break that dun’t werk’

    I’m struggling to find compassion for her (I’m trying though), even if she was 15 when she was indoctrinated she has seen it for 4 years now and seems to have no regret and remorse

    Did the indoctrination stop after she arrived? Maybe her lack of remorse is a coping technique, maybe she is aware Isis will hear the interview.

    I’m not saying she didn’t make her choices and will need to deal with the consequences, but these are not normal circumstances that have brought her to this juncture, so we need to maybe go on a little journey before we arrive at “**** that bitch, let her rot”

    She wants her baby to be looked after? fine, there are a lot of childless couples who would be happy to adopt. Surely that would be preferable if her thoughts are only of her child.

    The Child will be born in Syria and it will have Syrian Citizenship (Or joint UK/Dutch/Syrian citizenship?) I wonder how that changes things? As parents of a Syrian citizen do it’s parents get some kind of right to reside in Syria? For me that would change everything, at that point this delightful family will have made themselves Syria’s problem and the UK can legally and morally walk away.

    scu98rkr
    Member

    “Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.

    What is her link to those countries? Why does her brain washing not make her a risk there just as much as back here?”

    She definitely should not be sent to either of these countries, as people say she doesn’t sound that repentant.

    Both countries are fertile areas for islamism and potentially dangerous if there was revolution, she may help sow the seeds a little more.

    Ultimately this would be more dangerous and worse for this country.

    Let her come back but make her life really really hard,
    .1st off no wifi or 4G signal, she has to make do with 3G.
    .She has to live in Peterborough eating only brussel sprouts.
    Her only form of transport is a ‘mansized’ steel Apollo mounting bike from facebook with a ‘back break that dun’t werk’

    NO PUDDING!

    Premier Icon yoshimi
    Subscriber

    Leave her to rot where she is!

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    Let her come back but make her life really really hard,
    .1st off no wifi or 4G signal, she has to make do with 3G.
    .She has to live in Peterborough eating only brussel sprouts.
    Her only form of transport is a ‘mansized’ steel Apollo mounting bike from facebook with a ‘back break that dun’t werk’

    I was with you for most of that but eating only brussel sprouts. That could result in a chemical warfare attack on the people of Peterborough the likes of which we have never seen. Do you want their blood (OK, retching) on your hands?

    having listened to her lack of empathy and how she described a “head in a bin” , I personally think…

    Or she could well be suffering from a combination of brainwashing and trauma. That’s the sort of thing that could take years to unravel. From what she said it sounded like the same daft girl that was sold a romantic lie, all that stuff about dying together with her pals.

    Nobody ever said the right thing to do was the easiest thing to do.

    Edit: and yes, she may well be keeping up appearances knowing full well what happens to “traitors of Islam”.

    tpbiker
    Member

    I feel very little sympathy. She joined a movement that wanted to wipe out our way of life and now that’s failed, she wants to come back and take advantage of everything that our way of life has to offer; safe hospitals, hard-won medical expertise, security and presumably social benefits.

    Well I was totally with you on this bit! She’s a parasite who has shown not one ounce of remorse for the actions of the group she left.

    She come across as one of the most stupid, selfish people I have ever had the misfortune to hear interviewed. 2 kids, both died, yet had another anyway. Now wants to come back to the country she despises and take advantage of the values she despises.

    Id happily let the kid back in for adoption, but she can rot as far as im concerned.

    Premier Icon duckman
    Subscriber

    She doesn’t come across well, does she? I suspect she might not be a UK citizen anymore anyway and the government will use that as a reason. It is a hard one as she seems fairly unrepentant and she could be a useful tool in the hands of folk wanting to radicalise Muslims. On the other hand, if she was full of how it was all a big lie and she regrets every minute of it then also a tool for good….However I am not sure of how successful attempts to reprogram extremists have been and she didn’t really seem to be at all contrite about ISIS.

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