British IS female wants to come back to UK…

Why does that matter?

You can’t work that one out yourself?

It seems to me that quite a few here are in favour of banishment and summary justice. Now, who does that remind me of…

…and British citizenship isn’t based on a birth right. Being born on British soil doesn’t make you a citizen, unlike the United States.

Her parents are British citizens and she still is a British citizen. Your worldview is just as vile and dangerous as the one this girl was indoctrinated in to.

Is it really Godwin to discus Nazis, in a thread about a facist?

Yup. If it was that relevant it would have appeared before p3.
Anyway, I’m off for a ride. I’m sure this will all be resolved to everyone’s satisfaction by the time I get back in a couple of hours.

On the subject of “send ‘er back…”

From the Guardian article linked to earlier – she couldn’t be stripped of UK nationality if it left her stateless, however if her parents weren’t born in the UK she would be eligible for dual nationality in their country of birth & could take that instead.

Those who have had their citizenship removed include gunmen and “jihadi brides” who travelled to Syria, it added.

They are all dual nationals, including British-born people with parents of different nationalities, because ministers cannot take away citizenship if it would leave a suspect stateless.

Whether or not that would be the right thing to do is a bit of moral quandry, although it appears there’s slim chance she’ll make it to a consulate to plead her case anytime soon…

Did she vote Leave?

Yes, then she found herself in a hospital with no drugs and hardly any staff and realised it was a mistake

While i’m not exactly overflowing with sympathy, i think she should be let back in.

I’d also say that some of the posters on this thread seems to be (almost?) as radical in their beliefs are she appears to be…

I’d also say that some of the posters on this thread seems to be (almost?) as radical in their beliefs are she appears to be…

If you can give an example of anyone on this thread ‘almost’ going as far as to run off to a facist state in support of a group of violent extremists then fair enough..i must have missed that post.

f you can give an example of anyone on this thread ‘almost’ going as far as to run off to a facist state in support of a group of violent extremists then fair enough..i must have missed that post.

Extreme behaviour towards others starts with dehumanisation. You really can’t see that here…?

I’d say no you can’t return. She made her decisions and now it’s going wrong wants to run back to a “safe” country. Not an option for millions of lives destroyed by Isis.

She come across as one of the most stupid, selfish people I have ever had the misfortune to hear interviewed. 2 kids, both died, yet had another anyway.

Yeah the caliphate is well known for its provision of family planning advice.

Some of the views on this thread are vile. Liberal western democracies are meant to stand up for their principles when these decisions are hard as well when they are easy.

I also wonder if I was born in Pakistan, to British parents whether everyone would consider me a Pakistani or whether I would still be considered an outsider and British (… and as would my children and my grand children)?

They probably would if you went hardcore Muslim to fit in.

My wife is culturally British-American, wasn’t born in the UK or the US – but studied at an American international school, a British University and has been in the UK for 8 years now. She drinks pints, eats fish and chips, says “bugger” a lot and knows more about British history than most Brits do.

Is it really Godwin to discus Nazis, in a thread about a facist?

Point of order. Nazi means a member of the National Socialist party of Germany. Fascist means a follower of Mussolini, in Italy.

Anyway, this story of the girl from Bethnal Green that is now in a camp in Syria. A Times journalist bumped into her and realised who she was. When interviewed she expressed a desire to return to England for her baby to be born. However, as per the Today programme, she has taken no steps to contact a consular official (there are none in Syria, for safety reasons) and she is 9 months pregnant so she won’t be back in Blighty for the birth, or for years in all probability, as long as the press don’t start some “let’s get her back” campaign. This last is pretty unlikely as it is the right wing press that goes for these things anyway.

If in a few years she gets to a consulate then she has the right to come back (international law, to which we are signed up), but she will then be interviewed and possibly charged, maybe imprisoned etc. There is no question of the gumment flying her back tomorrow to give her a council house and start an ISIS cell in Beffnal Green with Damien, her new-born offspring.

A Venn diagram of “let her rot” / Leave / armed forces folk would be interesting (based on my Facebook feed)

Ransos, how can this be banishment if she has willingly left?

What I think is being overlooked is the radicalisation aspect. As a junior our laws deem her to have been unable to make sound judgement on what she was doing.

On that basis alone we have to accept her vulnerability and take her back to be deradicalised.

Straight back in, new home, £400 p/w direct to her account.

Ransos, how can this be banishment if she has willingly left?

Because she wishes to return, and some here wish to remove her right to do so.

What I think is being overlooked is the radicalisation aspect. As a junior our laws deem her to have been unable to make sound judgement on what she was doing.

She was of the age of criminal responsibility in the uk….

Because she wishes to return, and some here wish to remove her right to do so.

If the home office haggled with a country that was more fitting for her, she would probably voluntarily go there.

A Venn diagram of “let her rot” / Leave / armed forces folk would be interesting (based on my Facebook feed)

And people who use the phrase “I’m not racist but..” or believe that “Shakira” (sic) law is about to be imposed

She was of the age of criminal responsibility in the uk….

Is anyone saying that she should not stand trial for crimes she may have committed?

If that is the case raybanwomble it simplifies her handling, we should be actively trying to repatriate her to face justice.

As the Government has already said though, why run the risk of wasting British special forces and intelligence lives trying to repatriate her? Why punish her in the UK, when it will likely radicalise her even further and lead to her needing to be kept in solitary (which is **** inhumane) so that she cannot contact other prisoners.

There’s precedent in granting Russian spooks/traitors asylum in this country, I don’t see why the same idea can’t be used here – another country more conducive to her world view could be found.

As the Government has already said though, why run the risk of wasting British special forces and intelligence lives trying to repatriate her?

Who is saying that we should take that risk?

That is the risk you would need to take to “actively repatriate her” as has been alluded to by the government, there is no consular presence in Syria – that means either an NGO has to be willing and able to get her out or British forces personnel – the government have stated that they see no reason to risk British lives repatriating her.

I doubt there are any NGO’s willing to spend money and lives on it either.

Zero sympathy. Just remember the beheadings, pushing people off tall buildings, setting fire to people in cages etc. etc. etc.
I can’t forgive any of this.

A Venn diagram of “let her rot” / Leave / armed forces folk would be interesting (based on my Facebook feed)

How so?

I can’t forgive any of this

I don’t think many are saying “forgive”.

This is a silly girl who realised she made a mistake.
Imagine for one second if it was your daughter. Would you want her back? I know I would.
Did she commit any crimes apart from running away?
Would you rather she stayed wherever she is and face possible more atrocities?
The lack of compassion and empathy on this thread is quite astounding.

or believe that “Shakira” (sic) law is about to be imposed

Well the hips don’t lie…

Well the hips don’t lie…

And then when you least expect it – genius arrives! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

The lack of compassion and empathy on this thread is quite astounding.

Are you new here?

Imagine for one second if it was your daughter. Would you want her back? I know I would.

Yes. The parents/grandparents are probably literally the only people in the world who do want her.

Would you rather she stayed wherever she is and face possible more atrocities?

If it were both legally and morally possible then yes, I’d rather literally every volunteer member of ISIS stayed away from the Uk forever. Including this woman and her family. Do you see the UK as some kind of refugee for ISIS in the same way that South America was for Nazis? How many ISIS members would you like us to save from retribution by the Syrian/Iraqi people? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000?

If we’re going to take anyone from ISIS to save them from local retribution I’d far rather take someone who was forced to join them than a volunteer. One of the local young girls who was forced to be a sex worker or a child slave. Hardcore volunteers would be well down my list to help.

Do you see the UK as some kind of refugee for ISIS in the same way that South America was for Nazis?

No I don’t.

She was a British teenager who did something silly. She wants to go home. Why not forgive?

Outofbreath, were talking about a British citizen here so the nazi/Argentina analogy is nonsense.

Straight back in, new home, £400 p/w direct to her account.

Then the papers will start a bidding war (sic) for the story followed by a degree then the book and the film and the lecture tour.
Probably even a Nobel.

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

She made her bed when she left.
Coming back here to use NHS maternity facilities. **** off.

That is the risk you would need to take to “actively repatriate her” as has been alluded to by the government, there is no consular presence in Syria – that means either an NGO has to be willing and able to get her out or British forces personnel – the government have stated that they see no reason to risk British lives repatriating her.

I know all that. Who is arguing that she should be actively repatriated?

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

So the law only applies when it’s people we like. Jolly good.

Outofbreath, were talking about a British citizen here so the nazi/Argentina analogy is nonsense.

Yes, we have to take her back because she’s British, that’s pretty much undeniable.

I was responding the “face possible more atrocities?” which implied Iolo wanted to bring her back to save her from atrocities. If that’s the argument, then I’d say we should bring someone more deserving back. And that’s the argument that the Nazi/Argentina analogy applies to, not the nationality argument.

One more thought. A lot of people are making a big thing of her lack of repentance. I doubt a camp full of surrendered Isis hard liners is somewhere where she can speak freely, so we need to be a bit careful.

Then the papers will start a bidding war (sic) for the story followed by a degree then the book and the film and the lecture tour.

This. If she can get out of Syria she’s made for life. That ‘Inside Isis’ book will be a best seller.

OK. Let’s use a Nazi analogy if you want.
The Nazis came to power as the people were disillusioned with life and were promised a better life.Adolf and co came to power by promising everything would be better. Once Hitler was in power, they realised it probably wasn’t the best move but if they disagreed, they would “dealt” with. Sent to POW camps to die.
Imagine if you may a young muslim girl who was disillusioned with the uk and reads her life would be better so off she goes. When there she realised it was a mistake and wants to come home.
Would you rather help her or let her die?

Ah well it gives the media something to cover while there’s nothing else happening.