Brexit 2020+

I thought Carlisle was already a bit like Tijuana…..

Barnier:

We will keep control of these tools and we will retain a free hand to take our decisions.

But…but…but, aren’t ‘we’ meant to be the ones taking back control?

javid the mekon said

If the EU, like us, wants a durable relationship, we should also include measures to directly address the long-term needs of industry for a reliable equivalence process. This would provide the certainty on which internationally mobile businesses can depend.

Or – unless you give us access like we had before all the banks will run away to the EU

At what point will we be allowed to string these ****ers up from lamp posts? Before or after they destroy the economy?

Asking for a friend.

The economy won’t be ‘destroyed’, but it will be damaged, and ‘transformed’ at speed to try and mitigate that damage, and not transformed in a way that benefits you and me in any way… quite the opposite.

[Binners’ last post probably describes this transformation process better than most.]

There will be no stringing up of the conmen… it is those that have been pointing out the bait’n’switch con that are likely to feel the anger of the mob, not those that conned them.

Here we go. Statement this morning from Ursula von der Leyen, the EU commission president about what is being referred to by Joris Bohnson as an ‘Australian style deal’:

“Honestly, I was a little bit surprised to hear the prime minister of the United Kingdom speak about the Australian model. Australia, without any doubt, is a strong and like-minded partner. But the European Union does not have a trade agreement with Australia. We are currently trading on WTO terms. And if this is the British choice, well, we are fine with that, without any question. But in fact we just are in the moment where we are agreeing with Australia that that we must end this situation and we work on a trade deal with them.”

They’re going to crash us out on No Deal. They’re not even bothering to pretend that they’re intending to do owt else. They’ve just given it a new name

Or – unless you give us access like we had before all the banks will run away to the EU

Yep, which is basically a tacit admission that the alternatives are now really BRINO or economic disaster.

And why SHOULD they help us?

Manufacturing suffering the most in Q4.
And investment only saved by the government own investment.
All going well on board Brexit front.

And why SHOULD they help us?

They want to help us. It genuinely is in their interest to do so. But they can’t give us the benefits of a rule based system if we refuse to sign up to the rules. “We” voted to no longer be a member, so can no longer set the rules, and our government(s) can chose to use the rules or not… if it choses not to (which has looked like the end game for many years now) then we can’t benefit from them. It’s simple really, and nothing to do with what “they” want to do, and their willingness or otherwise to help us. The rules are not a “price to pay” to get the benefits, they are how you enable the benefits to exist.

@Kelvin

Sorry, I should have been clearer.

What I was saying was:

Why should they help us to subvert their own rules for our own individual gain?

Carlisle will be like Tijuana.

Only without the sunshine, cactus and agave!

All I can do is keep highlighting the broken promises and backtracking to all those who for whatever reason were taken in and voted for these measures. They seem easily led and gullible, I’m hoping they’ll do the lamp post stringing so I don’t have to

When you think about it, the risk of this ending up going a bit lamp-posty is actually pretty high.

This lot have cynically mounted a power grab by promising the most angry and pissed-off people in the country that they can have the solution to all their problems – the moon on a stick and that there are no down-sides to that.

They fully intend to not only fail to deliver that moon on a stick, but to use this as a ruse to increase their own wealth and power at the expense of the already angry and pissed off people.

On top of this, the people who weren’t angry and pissed off enough to vote for this are now really, really, really angry and pissed off too

Thats an awful lot of anger and pissed-offness to be on the receiving end of when the cold harsh reality of the lies and deceit become glaringly apparent, which by my reckoning is now less than 11 months away

They will use their control of the media to shift the blame elsewhere and these idiots who fol;owed them this far will follow them on that step as well.

Cummings has made an interesting comment about the cabinet being worse than a kids cartoon! Would be nice if they grew a backbone and scuppered Johnson.

will follow them on that step as well

As I said, if there are ever lynchmobs, they won’t be going after the highly successful conmen, their attention will be diverted elsewhere. We should be very fearful of that outcome.

Cummings has made an interesting comment about the cabinet being worse than a kids cartoon! Would be nice if they grew a backbone and scuppered Johnson.

His angle will be that they don’t just do what he says. Could well be another round of ‘sack the ones that still ask awkward questions’.

Not necessarily a good thing.

They will use their control of the media to shift the blame elsewhere and these idiots who fol;owed them this far will follow them on that step as well.

That’s why I’m keen to keep reminding where the blame really is – there are a couple I know who would quite readily turn and swing me from the lamp post, they seem more and more rabid and unhinged the more you point out how they have been lied to, or at least, had their xenophobic/racist tendencies pandered to

Cummings has made an interesting comment about the cabinet being worse than a kids cartoon!

The Observer did a piece on Cummings at the weekend. Apparently even Boris is tiring of Doms constant need to be disruptive and abusive and bullying to everyone. Everyone else in cabinet is heartily sick of him as he has no off switch and is just an evil gnome. And now the Tory majority has been secured, he’s served his purpose.

We’ll find out in the reshuffle on Thursday. Dom and ‘the Saj’ absolutely despise each other (as he won’t just do as he’s told) and Dom is insisting he’s shifted away from number 11. So whether he’s demoted or not will then indicate whether Doms power is waning, post-election or whether the cabinet amount to more than just a bunch of nodding dogs

The Irish election result has to be a surprise to the Government, can’t see Sinn Fein playing nice with any British government

their attention will be diverted elsewhere. We should be very fearful of that outcome.

It’s already started (well, it started years ago, but whatevs).

LOL, I could tell that was The Sun within the first couple of lines. Rah rah.. Gotcha.. stick it up the Argies.. etc etc.. just sad.

They will lap that article up!!!!! ,,😂

Here we go. Statement this morning from Ursula von der Leyen, the EU commission president about what is being referred to by Joris Bohnson as an ‘Australian style deal’:

“Honestly, I was a little bit surprised to hear the prime minister of the United Kingdom speak about the Australian model. Australia, without any doubt, is a strong and like-minded partner. But the European Union does not have a trade agreement with Australia. We are currently trading on WTO terms. And if this is the British choice, well, we are fine with that, without any question. But in fact we just are in the moment where we are agreeing with Australia that that we must end this situation and we work on a trade deal with them.’

Yep so rebranding no-deal as the Australian model that oddly enough the Australians don’t want since they’re negotiating a better one 🙂

I was giving Boris the benefit of the doubt but it’s definitely looking a bit iffy with all the rebranding exercises, that looks more like an early indicator their intention is likely to be selling no-deal as a deal and heading us USA.

That Sun piece is truly frightening. I can almost hear the dambusters theme.

Clean break 🙂

My ass, ongoing unresolved EU squabbling over things for years, media feeding a toxic relationship against the EU.

Standards are slipping…

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/12/these-three-post-brexit-bills-bulldoze-a-hole-through-environmental-protections

In the ’70’s, before and just after the EU “ruined everything good about Britain” by finally letting us join, Britain was 541t.

And it measurably was.

Known as the dirty man of Europe.

It was also know as the poor man of Europe as, despite being “free” to do the deals it wanted and trade “with the world”, we were 541t.

And it measurably was.

Known as the poor man of Europe, it was – a nod to the Ottoman’s, I think.

Haven’t got a point…. Just enjoying the remaining time I can buy potatoes or pick a phone up and call the Fire Brigade without being asked for an insurance number.

“Sick man of Europe” I believe.

Good that Boris is doing his bit to save the country some cash: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51482220
I like the example he is setting – anyone want to give me £15000 for my next holiday?

not strictly Brexit but what do we think of the prospect of Supreme Court judge appointments being subject to parliamentary influence?

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/attorney-general-geoffrey-cox-supreme-court-judges-quizzed-parliament-1556428

No-one’s saying it’ll happen and in fact #10 has refused to endorse Cox’s comments, but equally the manifesto identified ‘wide reaching constitutional reforms’ which i can’t imagine will be to tighten up scrutiny of what government can do……

Very good reasoned analysis of where we are heading here…and very worrying:

https://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/britains-existential-crisis-is-now-looking-very-real/

It’d be really great if anyone who voted for brexit could have a read through that, if you can be bothered, and come back with some valid argument as to why you still think it’s a good idea…

.

That article is absolutely bang on! One particular statement in there is becoming increasingly obvious.

The manufacturing industries in Britain are to be sacrificed just as the coal and steel industries were in the 1980s

So its going to be the same places that were hit last time that are going to cop for it this time too. The Tory’s are just going to use Brexit to finish off the job they started in the 80’s.

A lot of people who voted for Brexit and then voted Tory on the basis that ‘it can’t get any worse’ are about to find out that it most certainly can get worse. A lot, lot worse

Absolutely disgusting service at Schiphol airport. 55 minutes we have been stood in the immigration queue. This isn’t the Brexit I voted for. pic.twitter.com/QcSne9d4qW

— Colin Browning (@ColinBrowning14) February 13, 2020

Love shit like this and it’ll happen more and more. The day after the Brexit vote my sister travelled to Rome and they made UK citizens go through the everyone else queue, she said it took hours

Edit, how do you embed Twitter?

[Mod edit: fixed for you. Just C&P the URL.]

Talking to people here in Germany there is a line of thinking that goes “let them suffer”. An almost schadenfreude-esque attitude towards the UK.

How much does the EU need the UK?

Does it matter to them if the UK falls off its pedestal and another nation takes its place? Not really.

It’s this bit from the above article that caught my attention:

” the financialisation of our entire economy now means that 38% of working-age households now take more from the state in benefits than they pay back in taxes and child poverty is expected to reach an eye-watering 37% in just four years time.”

Both factors are horrifying for our future. How well is our society going to function in a decade or few’s time when all these children whose futures have been stunted by poverty grow up?

I guess the standard Brexity answer is that we will have now have a “boom’, and dear god we need one, unfortunately most analysis shows that’s highly unlikely to happen. Even ‘Rees Mogg’ said it might take 50 years to see any benefit.

Thanks BrexyBoomers for taking away our life chances.

theotherjonv – with Cox’s departure and being replaced by Braverman you can be guaranteed that governmental interference in the judicial process will become very real.
Quote from the article describing this gov as being ‘….despots not democrats’ will be proved 100% true.
endoverend – I cannot disagree with any of the truepublica article; how long will it take before brexiters realise they were sold a pup by johnson & co and turn against him and the gov?
Will they accept responsibility for their actions when they and their families are faced with job losses, shrinking manufacturing base, increased cost of living, reintroduction of visas for european travel, more overt racism and xenophobia?
Some will but many won’t and will blame the EU for failing to ‘…give us what we want’; that message is already being promoted by right wing press.
Why should the EU give us anything other than a hard time?

Why should the EU give us anything other than a hard time?

On the face of it no reason.

Sure they want us to prosper as much as possible together but if we try to subvert their system then they will, rightly, tell us to get stuffed.

Why should the EU give us anything other than a hard time?

There’s no reason they should “give us a hard time.”

What they absolutely cannot do, however, is give us anything at all which is better than than what they offer to EU member states because that would undermine the very point of being a member in the first place. No club in the history of ever offers better benefits to its non-members than to its members.

Cougar – let me rephrase.
Why should the EU co-operate with UK gov to ‘…give us what we want’?
The UK doesn’t have many bargaining chips; as for a negotiating position – we don’t have one and we lack the negotiating skills.
All of the EU’s trade negotiators who have helped the UK to benefit since 1973 are now sitting on the other side of the table.
It is clear that the EU will be presented as giving us a hard time and, as stated somewhere up there ^^^, it’s started.
Why would a club offer the same benefits to non-members as it does to members? They wouldn’t and the EU won’t.