Yeah a lot of Tory supporters would. Personally I’d take no brutal austerity over competence and stability. And it is probably quite a widely held opinion outside the Tory Party.

Ohh, I’m not a Tory.

I’m just realistic that austerity probably lead to deaths.

Boris’ incompetence killed 200,000.

If the only options on the table are Boris or austerity, I’ll take austerity.

Caught a bit on Radio Scotland this morning where it was suggested Johnson was banking on a quick implosion at the end of Trussmania opening up a route back for him. With him telling his people to back Truss. I make that three solid attacks on the nation to further his own cause – Brexit, operation neuter May and now the Truss gambit.

#GeneralElectionsNow

They say the killer always returns to the scene of the crime pic.twitter.com/2ygNe7mnmh

— PhilM (@PhilMyers53) October 21, 2022

He’s going to get back in isn’t he.
I saw on the news that the Tory Party Membership only get involved in the vote if there are 2 runners in the race and the MP’s can’t decide. So pound to a pinch of shit he will be having that situation engineered as we speak.
Seeing posts on Facey and Linkdin showing massive support for him. Any negative comments are shot down with ” you can’t tell me you didn’t break the covid rules now and again”.
These thick fekkers just don’t get it do they?

Boris’ incompetence killed 200,000.

Now that’s what I call inflation! What will the inflated figure be next year?

Your current figure actually exceeds the total number of people who according to the United Nations World Health Organisation have died of covid in the UK:

https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/gb

So either every covid death in the UK is down to Johnson’s incompetence, ie there would not have been one single covid death if someone else had been PM.

Or, there is a huge conspiracy which involves the UK government and United Nations agencies concerning the real numbers of covid deaths in the UK.

Which one is it? I don’t know about you but I reckon a lot of people would go for the latter.

I’ll take austerity.

Since you would rather austerity over incompetence how many avoidable/unnecessary deaths do you think the highly competent austerity programme caused?

Here’s a clue for you:

“OVER 300,000 ‘EXCESS’ DEATHS IN GREAT BRITAIN ATTRIBUTED TO UK GOVERNMENT AUSTERITY POLICIES”

https://www.gla.ac.uk/news/headline_885099_en.html

Btw it’s interesting to note that you are on first name terms with Johnson. Are you sure that you are not a secret admirer/Tory?😉

I am so angry that Johnson has the brass front to come back.

I can definitely attribute one death on his shoulders, my mothers, was in care as I could no longer look after her, she was intelligent and social,a genuine pleasure to be around.

Her health deteriorated as she couldn’t see her family due to the rules that Boris have put in around care homes, she didn’t get the mental stimulation from the staff in the care home, but that’s another matter altogethe.

I got to see my mother once in the year before she died while he was pissing it up in number 10, if I am ever unfortunate to meet him I can guarantee I’ll be arrested. I have never felt so much animosity to anyone I am a tolerant person but I cannot let this go I thought my grieving was through but with him in the news it’s bringing all the pain back.

Sorry for ranting.

Going to agree with him on this though….

I am so angry that Johnson has the brass front to come back.

+1. It makes me feel sick. How this can happen defeats me.

Not only that, with the Tory reputation in tatters due to the actions of the last few years, how they think re-instating a PM that’s proven to have lied, broken the law, cheated the taxpayers and committed fraud with public money numerous times is going to improve it, I don’t know.

Ah wait, becuase the residents of Eastbourne remember Winston Churchill, and rascists.

Tory’s are starting to live by the well know definition of Madness

“Repeating the same thing over again in the hope of a different result this time”

“Ah wait, becuase the residents of Eastbourne remember Winston Churchill, and rascists.”

They were too young to remember Winston Churchill, what they are remembering is the feel good propaganda films of the 50’s and 60’s like The Dambusters and Battle of Britain.

And racists….

Funnily enough, all the Tory/Brexit supporters in my family have been really quiet these last few months as the realisation of WTAF the last 6 years have been slowly sinks in. I just hope that they don’t say Boris will put it all right.

They were too young to remember Winston Churchill

Eh?

Just a note from 2 of my white van cycling mates who cannot turn up today as they were celebrating Johnson’s potential return!
Lemmings.

They were too young to remember Winston Churchill

Eh?

Churchill left off in 1955 which was 67 years ago. Anyone younger than 89 wouldn’t have been old enough to to vote for churchill in 1951.

It’s like someone saying I’m too young to remember Harold Wilson- I’m not , but i was far more interested in farleys rusks at the time.

If we have in listening mode early doors on the Boris lingo bingo card it has to be a red flag for same old same old. Boris Johnson the wilderness weeks and how it changed him would be another.

Churchill left off in 1955 which was 67 years ago. Anyone younger than 89 wouldn’t have been old enough to to vote for churchill in 1951.

It’s like someone saying I’m too young to remember Harold Wilson- I’m not , but i was far more interested in farleys rusks at the time.

And yet, my father for example is 84, too young to have voted for Churchill. But, he remembers the war, is a huge admirer of what Churchill did in the war. Churchill did not die until 1965, my father was 27 – to suggest his memories of Churchill is due to “the feel good propaganda films of the 50’s and 60’s like The Dambusters and Battle of Britain.” is silly (at best).

Also, I have no idea how old you are, but whilst being too young to have voted for Wilson, I was an admirer of his back then. I’d happily swap him for Starmer.

Can someone explain to me how Johnson has been on holiday for 2 months?

There was a 3 line whip the other night, how come he didn’t have attend?

Does he get some special leave after losing the leadership? Was he told to take step down by the whips or something?

I reckon the whips/party chairman told him to piss off for a bit while Truss got bedded in, to stop him stirring it, and presumably some donor footed the bill.

Bloody hell!

Some absolute nutter on LBC right now. Johnson is going to save the country, it’s the 2nd coming.

whilst being too young to have voted for Wilson, I was an admirer of his back then. I’d happily swap him for Starmer.

Well said! Wilson wasn’t particularly left-wing as prime minister but what he achieved in such a short time and with such tiny parliamentary majorities is frankly staggering.

I occasionally hear people claim that Tony Blair is according to them the greatest Labour PM ever. Presumably that is solely down to electoral success because when Wilson’s record as PM is compared to Blair’s 10 year premiership, with eye-watering majorities, it appears even more remarkable.

All that possibility resulted in very little. Blair’s most famous legacy is probably committing the UK to wars. Apart from all the huge reforms Wilson was responsible for he also thankfully resisted US pressure to involve Britian in the Vietnam War.

Some absolute nutter on LBC right now. Johnson is going to save the country, it’s the 2nd coming.

Was it Loadsamoney?

[ need to watch the Saturday Night Live special from last night ]

But, he remembers the war, is a huge admirer of what Churchill did in the war.

So was my dad. He walked with Churchill’s coffin as a member of the Queen’s Colour Squadron at his state funeral. He never got to see Johnson become PM, but I can assure you my mother sees absolutely **** all of Churchill in Johnson, and no one else should be dumb enough for fall for that nonsense either. Johnson is no Churchill.

whilst being too young to have voted for Wilson, I was an admirer of his back then. I’d happily swap him for Starmer.

Wilson? He’s dead. Perhaps deal with what we have in front of us now. Seems an easy choice to me.

I occasionally hear people claim that Tony Blair is according to them the greatest Labour PM ever.

That must be very occasionally. And we’ve only had two in my memory.. Anyway, he’s not going to be PM again. Perhaps deal with what we have in front of us now. Seems an easy choice to me.

Btw it’s interesting to note that you are on first name terms with Johnson. Are you sure that you are not a secret admirer/Tory

My mate Al, good fun for a pint down the club,although never gets a round in but not so good for running a country 🙂

So either every covid death in the UK is down to Johnson’s incompetence, ie there would not have been one single covid death if someone else had been PM.

Google disagrees.

Pro rated for population size, New Zealand managed less than the third significant figure of what Boris achieved.

image hosting

Btw it’s interesting to note that you are on first name terms with Johnson. Are you sure that you are not a secret admirer/Tory?😉

Ohh that’s low.

Google disagrees.

So you want to use ‘google’ figures rather than the World Health Organisation’s figures?

Okay we can do that WHO’s figure was 192,682. Your google figure claims 208,000.

You said:

Boris’ incompetence killed 200,000.

So according to you if the Tories had had another more competent PM, despite the fact that many senior Tories including members of his own cabinet were more concerned with costs and loss of profit than Johnson, there would only have been 8,000 deaths from covid in the UK, 200,000 died from Johnson’s incompetence.

Is it really feasible to claim that only 8k would have died from covid in the UK had another Tory been in charge?

And you have ignored my question when I asked you how many do you think died as a result of austerity in reference to your “I’ll take austerity” claim.

What do you think of Glasgow University’s claim of 300,000 extra deaths as a result of austerity?

Ohh that’s low.

You careless forgot to remove my winky when you copied and pasted my comment, it kinda undermines your outrage 😉

So much energy wasted defending Johnson with pedantry. Why? What has he “delivered” for you?

As we’re reminiscing about Churchill, my Nan remembered his time as Home Secretary well, despite being a little girl. She witnessed the soldiers he sent to wish the Tonypandy riots

And yet, my father for example is 84, too young to have voted for Churchill. But, he remembers the war, is a huge admirer of what Churchill did in the war.

Seven years old in 1945? When Atlee won the election for labour, first chance people got to vote for a pm after the war. And Churchill campaigned on ‘the fight starts now’.

(Churchill’s popularity has become somewhat exaggerated.)

Music for Churchill jizzers?

Sky News reporter Mark Stone, who is on the flight with Boris Johnson back from the Dominican Republic to Gatwick, said that Johnson was booed by passengers as he boarded.

— Harry Taylor (@HarryTaylr) October 21, 2022

Tune!

The “blame” lyrics are great.

Blaming everyone in the hospitals
Blaming everyone at the bottom of the English Channel
Blaming everyone who doesn’t look like a fried animal

Didn’t know there was new Orbital coming… thanks.

So much energy wasted defending Johnson with pedantry. Why? What has he “delivered” for you?

Oh the intellectually lazy, how they struggle with anything beyond black or white.

Claiming that Truss is a worse prime minister than Johnson was (a claim millions would agree with) isn’t “defending” Johnson, it is pointing out that another PM else is worse.

Expressing an opinion that leading leadership contenders Sunak and Truss would not have handled the pandemic any better, in fact imo almost certainly a lot worse, is not “defending” Johnson, it is criticising Sunak and Truss for being worse.

I do not for a moment doubt that if Gordon Brown had been prime minister, for example, he would have handled the pandemic far far better than Johnson. If I haven’t mentioned it earlier it is because there is no point, not because I don’t think someone else could have done a better job.

My opinion of the Tory Party is extremely low, my opinion of Johnson is also extremely low, as I repeatedly attack his narcissistic personality. However it is precisely this showman need to be loved which imo makes him more tolerable than many of the 8 recent contenders for his job. It was clear from the start that Truss had no interest in being popular or being liked, she simply didn’t care.

If you feel that the Tory Party has plenty of alternatives to Johnson who are more competent and caring and less right-wing than Johnson then that’s up to you, but I don’t agree. For me Johnson has easily been preferable to Thatcher, Major, and Cameron, three very right-wing and callous Tory prime ministers who had a highly detrimental effect on the UK as they dismantled the postwar social democratic consensus.

Johnson imo is the best Tory PM since Ted Heath, but nowhere near as acceptable as Heath and even more so Macmillan. I appreciate that many feel that Thatcher, Major, and Cameron, were better, I don’t agree.

And btw there is nothing ‘pedantic’ about pointing out the Cameron era austerity deaths when someone says “I’ll take austerity”, nor what the total covid deaths actually are.

Oh the intellectually lazy, how they struggle with anything beyond black or white.

You put so much effort into defending Johnson. Have been doing so endlessly on this forum for the last three years, no matter how low he sinks. No point denying it. But why? Why can he depend on you standing up for him no matter what he does? What has he done for you?

FFS change the record.

That’s what I’m asking of you. Or if you can’t change the record, explain why you have kept playing it, even after all we’ve seen of Johnson since he became leader the first time. Why expend so much time and effort on this forum defending him?

Can someone explain to me how Johnson has been on holiday for 2 months?

There was a 3 line whip the other night, how come he didn’t have attend?

Does he get some special leave after losing the leadership? Was he told to take step down by the whips or something?

Someone was explainig that on LBC the other day, basically the party will choose a constituency for them to run in, preferably fairly local to them and an easy win purely on the basis of them being groomed for PM. So no real constituency work done, basically a name on a bit of paper to say that they’re the MP.

I have to question why they would allow a serial rule breaker, a PM who lied to the Queen, a constant embarrasment and someone who is still under investigation by the Common Privelages Committee for misleading parliament the chance to be PM again? I get that the old dears and racist conservative base like him, but do they really think he can win a General Election again?

Apparently he has 100 votes

being reported that he has >100 backers now (albeit only 49 declared) so can be on the paper on Monday if he chooses to. The fact he’s flown back to the UK makes me think he’s considering it seriously.

Could be very bad and very good. If he stands and makes the top 2 then the pensioner members will vote him back in, almost certain.

But I can’t see how the PCP can unite behind him. 60-odd ministers resigned, countless others wrote letters to 1922, reversing that is surely beyond reasonable….. it would surely split the party and make a GE more likely as they fail to do any business as the infighting goes on.

explain why you have kept playing it, even after all we’ve seen of Johnson since he became leader the first time.

You don’t think things have got worse since Johnson resigned, are you for real? Well I saw the other day that you posted, quote, “the polls are broken” so I guess that you might be struggling with the reality of the situation.

A reality which was totally predictable. Long before Johnson resigned I said on here any alternative to Johnson was likely to be even more right-wing and callous than he is. It really wasn’t hard to predict, even without a crystal ball.

So anyway how about you explain your bizarre faith in the Tory Party which leads you to believe that any Tory other Johnson is better?

You celebrated when Johnson was forced resign despite the fact that it could only mean that he would be replaced by another Tory. How about you explain how that panned out?

You spend so much time and effort attacking Johnson claiming that another Tory prime minister would be so much better how about you explain what you think is so great about these other Tories.

The next PM will probably be Rishi Sunak, I expect his policies as PM to be significantly to the right of Johnson. His austerity programme might well please the markets but will cause untold human misery to millions struggling during an unprecedented cost of living and healthcare crises, the markets simply don’t care.

How about you explain why this will represent a significant improvement on Johnson’s premiership? What, according to you, is so great about Rishi Sunak?

The only way the Tories can guarantee the ability to resist an early general election is if Johnson is reinstalled as PM, a point made by Ben Wallace the other day when he talked of leaning towards Johnson because he had a mandate.

I cannot see how the Tories can have 3 prime ministers with 3 different sets of economic policies during the duration of one parliament without being forced, if only by public opinion, to go to the country and seek a mandate.

For that reason only I am leaning towards hoping that Sunak or Mordaunt become the next PM, not Johnson.

I do hope the Tories apply their customary competence to making their voting site Ddos resistant.

If johnson decides to stand and is voted in that, to me, means he will either kill the Privileges Committee enquiry through the whips’ office or believes he will be cleared.
Either of those options is risky for him.
My thinking FWIW – there will not be a sunak-johnson ‘dream ticket’; johnson will decide there is too much potential downside for him to stand; talk of him having secured 100+ backers is nothing more than talk designed to engineer support for him; his polarising effect will further damage the tory party and his ‘legacy’; he will leave a formal announcement as late as possible; he will present his decision – stand or not – as being in the best interests of the country (and party).