perhaps he’s gone to Marbella for violin lessons ?

Intelligence or being ‘grown up’ is pretty well irrelevant (as well as implying a technocratic gerontocracy). I’m sure there’s been many ‘clever’ tories and socialists. Apparently Starmer is a ‘clever’ lawyer but look at the balls he’s making of LOTP. Then you have the likes of Cleverly (sic) and Dorries with her tweet about ‘Swass stickers’, they’ve done well for themselves despite their alarming limitations. Gove was elected President of the Oxford Union and look what a chump he is.
It’s about class alignment and who backs you and who you reward. Johnson currently maintains his position because he’s ‘a winner’ but he’ll be dumped when the time is right irrespective of his O-level grades and cod Latin.

Starter knows he needs to go that way but it’s completely against his nature to do so.

Assuming you mean Starmer, then yes, that’s the impression I get

perhaps he’s gone to Marbella for violin lessons

On the fiddle, or doing some fiddling?

He’s gone to ground again the same as he does every time there’s an actual decision that needs making. Maybe he’s in a Costa Del Sol fridge somewhere

In the meantime we have the usual complete absence of leadership with ministers fighting with each other over what to do about souring energy prices for business, while ‘The Boss’ (as they apparently actually refer to the useless imbecile) orders another San Miguel and makes an inappropriate remark at a waitress

It doesn’t really matter how intelligent he is, if he allows his innate laziness to trump that, then the result is the same. It could be argued that a genuinely intelligent man would realise that, without making the effort to apply his brain, he might as well not have it.

It’s good to hear that school entrance exams are now a good arbiter of real world intelligence, though, and that mediocre but wealthy pupils could not possibly be prepped for them effectively. The whole point of that particular channel of paid education (prep school – public school – oxbridge) is not just to push the most talented, but to also lift up less able individuals and coat them in the veil of confidence and bullshit that sustains them in privilege and power.

Who knows whether he was too lazy to read and try to understand the implications of the Northern Ireland Protocol, or just too stupid to interpret it? It makes little difference, he remains unfit for office.

i think this summed it up for me.

I mean, if it wasn't in the news how would we even tell? https://t.co/fh6mdc9o4H

— James OhBrien (@mrjamesob) October 11, 2021

In the meantime we have the usual complete absence of leadership

From the PM binners? Yes.

From the leader of the Opposition? Yes

They make a formidable double act.

Although Johnson entertains his audience considerably more effectively.

Oh look, Boris slaps down his Thatcherite chancellor and sides with his business secretary who wants to subsidise industry.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/11/no-10-backs-kwasi-kwarteng-in-treasury-spat-over-energy-prices?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Rishi is the new Daily Mail chosen one, that’s why they’ve been slating Boris recently. The battle lines are being drawn.

As a coauthor of Britania unchained I’m not sure you’d call kwarteng anti-thatcherite but thus from the guardian was good :

Kwarteng told the Tory party conference in 2019: “There’s nothing [better] to convert someone from being a radical free marketeer to seeing the virtues of government action than making them an energy minister.”

What’s funny is just how quickly the kwarteng Sunak row got bitchy

🔥Shortly after Kwasi Kwarteng says he’s engaging with Treasury over ways they can help industry, a Treasury source said:

“This is not the first time the BEIS secretary has made things up in interviews. To be crystal clear the treasury are not involved in any talks”

— Sam Coates Sky (@SamCoatesSky) October 10, 2021

Text from Boris Johnson:

‘It’s so relaxing here. Taking in the stunning views, the warm sunshine, swimming in the private pool, shelves bursting at the seams with food in the shops and petrol readily available.’

— Ken Clarke (@MrKennethClarke) October 11, 2021

Boris isn’t stupid. He is not great with technical logical arguments but that’s not important.

He has clearly studied rhetoric, which has ethos (reputation), pathos (passion) and logos (logic). I am not expert in it but you can see the Boris plays on pathos and some extent ethos, less in a “I am an expert” way more in a “I am a good bloke” way. You may yell that logic should win but it doesn’t humans go on feeling more than anything. David Hume say we argue to a position that we have already made out mind up about. We take evidence and argue it to support our view point.

Boris concentrates on winning the emotional argument first. He get people wanting to believe, then he need minimal logical argument to back it u pas the hard part is done. People can cling to their believes and if question they have one or two broad facts to fall back on a a comfort blanket.

Failing to understand this approach help further as it plays to the idea that his detractors consider him stupid, so his detractors also consider his follower stupid. Now who is going to listen with an open mind to someone who you think thinks you are stupid? Let alone follow them.

Out of interest, what is he doing now?

CEO in the US

Failing to understand this approach help further as it plays to the idea that his detractors consider him stupid, so his detractors also consider his follower stupid.

I think you need to explain the logical steps here between the different parts. After all you could vote for an idiot if you thought they would still make decisions which suited you.

It is a widely held POV on here that Johnson is stupid and anyone who votes for Johnson/the Tories is stupid.

TheBrick makes many valid points including the one concerning the obvious difficulty of trying to win people over after dismissing them as being stupid.

I think that probably Johnson’s greatest strength is that the Labour Party hasn’t got a clue how to deal with him, he is constantly wrong-footing them. Whether it’s criticising him for increasing taxes, talking of inflationary wage rises, or sending the party leader wallpaper shopping, they simply have no idea how to deal with him.

I think that probably Johnson’s greatest strength is that the Labour Party hasn’t got a clue how to deal with him, he is constantly wrong-footing them.

Yep. Dealing with someone who is clearly prepared to lie and bullshit their way through everything with no consequences is difficult, especially when they are the PM.
Someone as straight as Starmer doesn’t have a chance as you can’t deal with him by winning the argument with any logic as he will just make something else up to counter it.

Isn’t that essentially how Brexit was won?

People who actually knew what they were talking about pointed out “facts” against leaving the EU (facts that are now being proven true) but its supporters lied and bullshitted (the EU need us more than we need them, they will be begging us to make a deal with them, 350 million a week on the side of a bus etc etc) their way across the line knowing they’d wriggle their way out of any of the consequences that arose by blaming someone else?

Dealing with someone who is clearly prepared to lie and bullshit their way through everything with no consequences is difficult, especially when they are the PM

…with a large majority and the backing of most mainstream media, he really does have it easy. BoJo is incompetent and whilst not stupid he’s not a Machiavellian genius that some try to portray him as either. In generations past he’d have been gone long ago but the bar’s been set so low now he’s seen as a success

I think you need to explain the logical steps here between the different parts. After all you could vote for an idiot if you thought they would still make decisions which suited you.

ernielynch explains it well.

Of course its possible to vote for someone you think is stupid for self interest but if you for whatever reason have believed in what someone says and the some calls that person stupid, its not unreasonable to think that “if they think the person I believe is stupid, they must think I am stupid for following that person.”

I feel similar about how many labour supporters talk about people who have votes tory, calling them scum etc. These are the people you are trying to attract! I am not a tory voter (Lib dem the past 10 years or so for full disclosure) but even I am put off by this attitude.

I just hope that everyone is noting that on the day that the Parliamentary report is released in to his shockingly complacent attitude to the pandemic, leading to thousands of unnecessary deaths, that the sociopathic fly-tipped sofa is on a beach, sipping cocktails

That’s how much he actually cares, perfectly summed up right there.

He literally couldn’t give a flying ****!

I’m sure that’s it’s merely a coincidence that today Lord Frost has been sent out to do a bit of Nationalist sabre-rattling and flag-waving and make a speech clearly designed to deliberately antagonise the EU

SQUIRREL!

I am not a tory voter (Lib dem the past 10 years or so for full disclosure)

all voting lib dem does is make a tory government more likely

These are the people you are trying to attract!

I am not trying to attract anyone and tories are lying scum with blood on their hands

I just hope that everyone is noting that on the day that the Parliamentary report is released in to his shockingly complacent attitude to the pandemic, leading to thousands of unnecessary deaths, that the sociopathic fly-tipped sofa is on a beach, sipping cocktails

I’m also noting how he feels he can get away with this as a result of the shocking absence of opposition from the labour leadership. I guess this is what ‘effective and credible’ opposition looks like. While Boris is on a beach, the labour leadership is finding new ways to bankrupt the party and fight it’s own membership. You couldn’t make it up.

ernielynch explains it well.

Nope he didnt. He simply, like you, announced something as fact and expected it to be expected.
When, in reality, if you bother to look at what people are writing.
The number of people calling Johnson stupid isnt an overwhelming majority. A subset are most though are going for self centred and lazy.
The number calling his supporters stupid are far lower.

The “they are calling you stupid” is the rallying cry of the hard right politicians who want to shut down any discussion about their policies and trigger emotional outrage rather than debate.

I feel similar about how many labour supporters talk about people who have votes tory, calling them scum etc.

Again you seem to generalise from a subset rather ironically in this case. Do you feel similarly outraged by Britannia unchained?

Gove was elected President of the Oxford Union and look what a chump he is.

Important to understand that the Oxford Union is a kind of mini-PMQ for egotistical toffs to practice for their careers as lifelong Tories.

Is everything that Johnson does Starmer’s fault? That deflection is boring the hell out of me. In fact every political thread on this forum seems to go down this dead end. Social media does much the same. As do pub chats. Johnson has spent his entire life abdicating responsibility for his own words and deeds, and the British public are letting him do it as PM. That even people who wouldn’t normally consider themselves Tories put so much effort into deflecting for him is utterly depressing. Shit doesn’t stick to him… it slides off to be used as ammunition to flick at others.

Is everything that Johnson does Starmer’s fault?

It was very much Jeremy Corbyn’s fault. I’m just applying the same rules. 😄

Well, that’s a fun game for you. I’m bored to tears with it leaking into everything (not just from you of course). Perhaps people could save it for the Starmer thread, rather than using it to deflect from conversations about our part time PM. He’s teflon coated as it is, he doesn’t need help.

He’s teflon coated as it is, he doesn’t need help.

I think you overestimate my influence. If you’re looking for people helping him though you’d do well to find a more willing and able candidate than the leader of the opposition and the cabal of advisors around him.

I don’t think you have any influence, but you have the power to derail and bore… if you’re not careful you’ll end up as boring as Starmer (only a joke, that isn’t possible). Let’s stick to Johnson and his ongoing record in this thread… please?

I’m also noting how he feels he can get away with this as a result of the shocking absence of opposition from the labour leadership.

I’m not saying that what Boris does is Starmers fault. I’m saying Starmer should be calling him out every single **** day for his lies and incompetence and the damage he has caused.

It isn’t making political games out of the pandemic to point out the mistakes that were made and where money was wasted. This report today gives him the ammo

It isn’t undermining the will of the people to point out how badly the Brexit process has been handled.

Starmer needs to be setting a narrative that Tory idiocy/complacency/dogma has caused all these things to be worse than they needed to be, and setting out a 20 year vision as to how Labour will put it right, rather than short term crisis management.

Cos if he doesn’t, I’ll vote for someone who will

but you have the power to derail and bore…

Oh I don’t know, I reckon it’s pretty amusing seeing all the shit flung at Corbyn by the centrist idiots being even more applicable to Starmer and his merry band of party destroyers. It’s all very well wanting to focus on Johnson’s shortcomings, but you can’t really do that without considering those who enable him, and right now the labour leadership are playing that role very effectively.

I think that probably Johnson’s greatest strength is that the Labour Party hasn’t got a clue how to deal with him, he is constantly wrong-footing them. Whether it’s criticising him for increasing taxes, talking of inflationary wage rises, or sending the party leader wallpaper shopping, they simply have no idea how to deal with him.

They need to invent their own Boris…..

A media savvy Celeb…whose popular with Joe public.

You’ve got to play him at his own game…people are easily bought with cheap promises.

Easy as that, eh.
It’s Catch 22 – we need a leader who wants to do ‘the right thing’ and be decent and fair to as many people as possible. No way in the world will those behind the scenes in the media allow anyone like that into a position of power.

Someone as straight as Starmer doesn’t have a chance

Genuinely made me chuckle! 😊

As did this :

The number calling his supporters stupid are far lower.

You obviously haven’t spent much time on the political threads dissonance.

One of the reasons I find political threads on stw interesting is that it provides me with a window into the mindset of affluent middle-class liberals, the very people who have hijacked the Labour Party.

I never cease to be struck by the disgust and contempt expressed towards the lower-classes who vote incorrectly.

Obviously I am generalising and extreme examples such as dannyh might not be totally typical, but there is a clearly dismissive attitude towards who are considered stupid for voting incorrectly.

Middle class voters were more likely to vote for Johnson, and his Conservative MPs, than the “lower classes”. And more likely to vote. You can’t hang “votes Tory” around the neck of the “lower classes” any more than the classes “above” them… in fact less so. Older middle class voters are Johnson’s key demographic, still. Some people misunderstand “The North” and as a consequence are too quick to paint the people that swung the vote in Johnson’s new seats as the “lower classes”. Criticising people for supporting Johnson isn’t an attack on the “lower classes”… it is questioning the motives of people of all classes, and mostly the middle class outside our cities.

One of the reasons I find political threads on stw interesting is that it provides me with a window into the mindset of affluent middle-class liberals, the very people who have hijacked the Labour Party.

OK then, so what it is about the Tory party, predominantly privately schooled and funded by venture capitalists and oligarchs that appeals to people like you? How does “owning the libs” get us out of this situation?

that appeals to people like you?

What an odd post! 😀

And Kelvin misses the point!

Did you not notice the word “liberal” in middle-class liberals?

Did you also not notice “who vote incorrectly” in lower-classes who vote incorrectly?

Yes middle-class people often vote Tory, however middle-class liberals less so.

And not everyone who is lower-class votes incorrectly, for stw.

Yes middle-class people often vote Tory, however middle-class liberals less so.

You want liberals to vote for Johnson?

Where do we working class liberals fit into this?

Assuming you mean a liberal to be someone who wants a fairer country, less discrimination, that sort of thing.

OK then, so what it is about the Tory party, predominantly privately schooled and funded by venture capitalists and oligarchs that appeals to people like you?

I assume that when you say people like me you mean people who aren’t affluent middle-class and liberal?

Well that is a very good question. As I have said before I suspect not dismissing them as stupid racists and automatically assuming that no matter what they will vote for you probably plays a part.