Bogtrotters ride the Ben on a bank holiday!

philfive – Member
… at least we have laws saying you can’t ride that and if you do you can be prosecuted. plain, simple and easy.

Wrong. In E and W we have signs claiming you can be prosecuted, but there are no laws to support prosecution (except some very specific by-laws).

SFB/Bogtrotters are in the militant wing of cheeky riders. Disregarding legal niceties, I’m never convinced that such militancy makes a positive impression of cyclists on the non-cycling public.

“I’m inclined to think that, having made a mistake of going up there when it was so unexpectedly (to them) busy, they would have been MORE disruptive if they had been pushing their bikes down as rider + bike are twice as wide!“

I’m inclined to think that, having made a mistake of going up there when it was so unexpectedly (to them, because they clearly didn’t even attempt to think that one through) busy, they might have trickled down in a rather more deferential manner and then realised that they’d made a significant error of judgement and decided not to edit up a video of them barging past people and post it on the internet for all to see.

But I guess I’m a hopeless optimist.

(Oh, in reference to the earlier “get a bloody grip” comment re the driving analogy: it’s an analogy, not an equation of the two. The point of the analogy was simply to show that various defences of the riding on the video become demonstrably fallacious when tested against an activity which also places others at risk but which happens to be considered universally unacceptable. The underlying point being that the actual risk is not directly altered by whether the driver/rider in question perceives themselves as so skilful that rules shouldn’t apply or whether they feel something is safe because they’ve got away with it so far.)

“can I be the first to congratulate you on raising the bar on genius, satirical, comedy statements. That’s without a doubt. the best I’ve ever read“

It’s got more holes than Swiss cheese. Read more 🙂

SFB/Bogtrotters are in the militant wing of cheeky riders.

think of it rather as civil disobedience – we’re always disarmingly polite and friendly, except perhaps when riding away quickly from aggressive farmers 🙂

Wrong. In E and W we have signs claiming you can be prosecuted, but there are no laws to support prosecution (except some very specific by-laws).

correct, barring a right of way you are liable to the landowner for any damage you cause in passage, but this is a civil tort for which he/she would have to take you to court at his/her own expense (a win only for the lawyers). Even where there ARE bylaws, the enforcement is notably lax, eg: http://www.bogtrotters.org/downloads/stanage.html

It’s got more holes than Swiss cheese

why thankyou Bez old lad :o) Whatever anyone else may think, this is pure comedy to me!

as for the posting of the video I think they’ve done everyone a service by demonstrating that it would be better to do it at a quieter time, or not at all as it looked crap to me 🙂

my post vanished! The end-of-page bug has hit me 3 times on this topic so far…

It’s not a bug Simon

😉

LOL

must go to bed

It’s not a bug Simon

you mean it’s intentional ? Oh no, I know, it’s a feature :o)

must go to bed

is that Sherlock or Van Gogh ??

looks a little like you actually 😆

looks a little like you actually

except my hair is straight and greying and shorter and my nose is much bigger and I never sleep on my front ?

obviously 🙄

what a bunch of ****

The path is so busy… as you would expect…. given the holiday and the location.

A first light descent would have been much more appropriate.

Plenty other, better hills, with better descents and less walkers.

Makes you wonder why you would choose this hill.

It wouldn’t be my choice.

I’m just glad they didn’t have a dog off the lead with them!
In all seriousness though, imbeciles, please f*** off and make us all look like kints to the general public somewhere else.

petesal – Member

The path is so busy… as you would expect…. given the holiday and the location.

A first light descent would have been much more appropriate.

Plenty other, better hills, with better descents and less walkers.

Makes you wonder why you would choose this hill.

Precisely for those reasons I would imagine.
A reputation as a first class asshat takes time and effort to cultivate.

All a bit pathetically ‘look at me, I’m a rebel’, I’m afraid.

Welcome back sfb. 😀

About time we had someone challenging rules/perceptions etc!

Edit: on a serious note, cycling is not ‘banned’ from Ben Nevis so surely they are not breaking the law?

It must have taken an awful long time and a lot of effort to get those bikes up there but don’t think this was emphasised in the vid.

Why should the trail be exclusively for walkers?

wow – way to resurrect it

no ones saying its illigal

no ones saying its banned

we are saying it was irresponsible to pick the middle of one of the busiest days of the year to tear down it.

300 posts here we come smee !

cinnamon_girl – Member
Edit: on a serious note, cycling is not ‘banned’ from Ben Nevis so surely they are not breaking the law?

It must have taken an awful long time and a lot of effort to get those bikes up there but don’t think this was emphasised in the vid.

Why should the trail be exclusively for walkers?Read the thread – it’ll all become clear.

but that doesn’t reflect my attitude to fellow trail users, to whom I’m unfailingly polite, and I often take time as I bimble along cautiously at the back of the pack to check with the walkers I meet that they haven’t been inconvenienced by the other riders.

Probably not need to if you did not ride footpaths in such large numbers

Even if the law were to be changed (itself unlikely) Scotland is huge and largely empty (people were driven out by the English). Mostly there’s no one to stop you going where you want, same as in England and Wales (and Ireland from the bit I rode, the Wicklow Way)

Good point I had not thought of ignoring the law…bit like drink driving in rural areas…I mean it’s only bad if you get caught then

Please stay I have missed you and some very funny posts in there…go on mention rainbow bridge wher epets go to die 😉

As I said in an earlier post, I’ve walked up and down Ben Nevis as part of a group of friends doing 24 hour 3 peaks challenge. I was shocked at the number of charity walkers, some of whom clearly were struggling big time.

Frankly, I got fed up with having to dodge them!

Never mind it’s for charity, mountain rescue will help us when we can’t walk any further cos we haven’t done any bloomin’ training

So … I ask … should one take a personal responsibility test before being allowed anywhere near a mountain?

So … I ask … should one take a personal responsibility test before being allowed anywhere near a mountain?

no. HTH.

“It must have taken an awful long time and a lot of effort to get those bikes up there but don’t think this was emphasised in the vid.“

I’m lost on this one. Are you saying that because they’ve put a bit of effort into behaving like dicks they’ve earned the right to behave like dicks?

CG

the law basically says you can ride anywhere so long as you are not a dick. These guys were dicks.

“So … I ask … should one take a personal responsibility test before being allowed anywhere near a mountain? “

Clearly not. But it seems quite reasonable one should apply consideration and common sense before taking themselves up a mountain and whilst on it, and reflect on the earlier decisions once down – ideally in a context wider than just one’s own viewpoint.

But then you can replace “taking themselves up a mountain” with absolutely any activity and that still applies. The absence of the above process is pretty much the essence of being a dick.

we are saying it was irresponsible to pick the middle of one of the busiest days of the year to tear down it.

It was 6am start up and 9.30am start down. Not really middle of the day.

The path is so busy… as you would expect…. given the holiday and the location.

Like walkers, mountain bikers are often restricted to holidays to drive 6 hours for the weekend. Should mountain bikers be restricted to only riding on weekdays?

A first light descent would have been much more appropriate.

Was a first light ascent. Is it responsible to lead a group of mountain bikers up a proper mountain in the dark?

…and reflect on the earlier decisions once down

Because they have not come out to your forum to reflect, does that mean they did not reflect or regret earlier decisions?

“Because they have not come out to your forum to reflect, does that mean they did not reflect or regret earlier decisions?“

Not at all.

However, I think that spending time editing up a lengthy video and then sticking it up on YouTube for all to see does rather imply that – even if they did reflect on it – regret wasn’t exactly one of the responses.

badbod99 – Member
Was a first light ascent. Is it responsible to lead a group of mountain bikers up a proper mountain in the dark?

Dark? Scotland? Early June?

“Like walkers, mountain bikers are often restricted to holidays to drive 6 hours for the weekend. Should mountain bikers be restricted to only riding on weekdays?“

Ben Nevis being presumably the only feasible mountain biking spot within a 6 hour radius?

“Is it responsible to lead a group of mountain bikers up a proper mountain in the dark?“

Electing not to take one irresponsible course of action does not inherently preclude one from also electing not to take another irresponsible course of action.

Doesn’t look too bad to me, doubt that is illegal anyway, sure they could have picked a quieter time but please please get over it.

Ironic how this is discussed on an ST forum where most of their bikes are tested on sneaky calderdale footpath.

Ho-hum.

…regret wasn’t exactly one of the responses.

One of the group posted a video means every individual in the whole group did not reflect on or regret their choices?

…sticking it up on YouTube for all to see

Youtube is used for sharing videos between groups and friends, not just for public performance. Do you believe the intention of posting the video was to brag or cause offence?

There are quite a few people on this thread that seem to be hard of understanding.

Ben Nevis being presumably the only feasible mountain biking spot within a 6 hour radius?

Fort William is a riding destination due to the downhill and cross country courses. Riding Nevis is a popular challenge (albeit others may have better timing).

Electing not to take one irresponsible course of action does not inherently preclude one from also electing not to take another irresponsible course of action.

Agreed. However, the other course of action may not have seemed irresponsible at the time. Hindsight is a great thing.

Hindsight is a great thing.

As is common sense.

As is common sense.

So someone who makes a mistake is devoid of common sense?

“One of the group posted a video means every individual in the whole group did not reflect on or regret their choices?“

No, but then aren’t we simply debating whether the riding in the video is irresponsible/inconsiderate/dengerous? That’s of interest to all of us because all of those things are about how MTBers’ actions affect others, whether that’s MTBers or walkers and whether it’s directly (eg through immediate physical risk or lack of respect) or indirectly (through risk of loss of access). We’re not really discussing what the individuals’ own responses are.

“Youtube is used for sharing videos between groups and friends, not just for public performance. Do you believe the intention of posting the video was to brag or cause offence? “

Who knows. But it’s the internet – by and large, everyone sees everything. You don’t post stuff you’re genuinely ashamed of on the internet, unless you’re really stupid or are unhinged enough to be going through some sort of bizarre circus act of catharsis. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to infer that whoever posted the video is not genuinely ashamed of what it shows. I could be wrong, of course, but I’d be surprised.

“So someone who makes a mistake is devoid of common sense? “

Not at all.

But someone who makes a mistake, fails to realise that mistake through however-much-time of making the mistake all the way down a mountain, goes home and edits the footage of their mistake and then shows the mistake to the whole world could, I would contend, be argued to be lacking it to some degree.