Bloody smug b***ard motorcyclist

The capabilities of a motorbike are usually much higher than the capabilities of the rider – and it is that that I refer to.

Same as cars then. Only cars make bigger holes in walls, hedges, and groups of pedestrians.

Sometimes I dunno why TJ continues posting.. really. What's the point?

Dunno really Molgrips. Infuriated by the attitude of MF I suppose. I'll give up now as he seems incapable of understanding a simple point.

Red rag to a bull?
Bit between his teeth?
Nothing better to do?

Same as all of us really. 🙄

Will you give up TJ? Really, will you?

Ever?

You both have points, and I can see where you are both coming from. TJ, you are being a little anal but that's how you are and I understand that 😀

Ta for that Molgrips – I thought no one understood the point.

And overtaking (whilst wheelie-ing) a car making good progress

Well apparently not as the bike overtook you. Did he cause an accident? Nope so he was in control I think you really need to chill out…

Ta for that Molgrips – I thought no one understood the point.

So are you going to show true humility and accept that I had a point then too TJ? And retract your continued 'ignorant and stupid' accusations?

And Juan – I am not even going to rise to your trolling.

MF – I have never been able to figure out what your point is intended to be. You remain ignorant of the capabilities of a motorcycle thus stupid to try to define what is safe and what is not on a bike.

Juan. Almost causing an accident is still bad. Just because they didn't actually hit does not make it a good manoeuvre or that he was in full control.

MF – I have never been able to figure out what your point is intended to be. You remain ignorant of the capabilities of a motorcycle thus stupid to try to define what is safe and what is not on a bike.

LOL – I have already said it is not the motorcycle but the rider that is the danger. If you think you are capable on a bike because the bike is capable, then god help you.

Molgrips – I wouldn't even have bothered if I were you!

TJ you have to admit that a lot of stuff that motorcyclists do is wildly unsafe, obvious even to those who are not motorcyclists.

The death statistics speak for themselves if nothing else.

Motorcyclists, love to show off some of them. One did a wheelie to impress my female friend when he saw her looking at his bike. Didn't realise his mate had stopped at the lights and wheelied right into the back of him. I just about shat meself I was laughing so much.

TJ you have to admit that a lot of stuff that motorcyclists do is wildly unsafe, obvious even to those who are not motorcyclists.

No you are wrong Molgrips – we are ignorant and stupid because we don't ride bikes so we can't possibly understand how these seemingly dangerous manoeuvres are perfectly safe because the motorcyclist rides in a bubble where no third party, unexpected road hazard or road markings can possibly effect or hurt them. Until it does. 😉

molgrips – Member

TJ you have to admit that a lot of stuff that motorcyclists do is wildly unsafe, obvious even to those who are not motorcyclists.

The death statistics speak for themselves if nothing else.

There are a couple of points on this. A lot of stuff that appears unsafe to non motorcyclist is not unsafe. Thats a large part of the point I was trying to make. Car drivers don't see the bikes coming and dont realise what reserves of grip they have so what is in fact a perfectly safe manoeuvre( in the context of "is anything safe on the road" ) appears to the car driver to be unsafe as they grossly overestimate speed and underestimate safety margins. 'cos a bike is so quick accelerting they seem to suddenly appear in the car drivers view – even if legally it appears to be high speed – but its the acceleration not the speed that means they appear so quickly

equally there are a whole set of unsafe riders out there for sure. Minly born agains like MFs pal

Interestingly on accidents the typical and by far the most common serious motorcycle accident is a middle-aged born again on a country road at under the speed limit without another vehicle being present – basically overcooking corners.

The fast riders you see tend not to have accidents.

Motorcycles don't have disproportionate numbers of crashes – just eh consequences are much nastier

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ (Ad nauseam)

A lot of stuff that appears unsafe to non motorcyclist is not unsafe

Right, that's fairly easy to see… but an awful lot of it IS patently unsafe. Sounds to me like wheelying through the no-man's land towards an oncoming car is not safe, and not a good idea.

The fast riders you see tend not to have accidents

I remain to be convinced by this I'm afraid.

equally there are a whole set of unsafe riders out there for sure. Minly born agains like MFs pal

That's looking very judgemental on someone you don't know and have never seen ride, I have to say.

That's looking very judgemental on someone you don't know and have never seen ride, I have to say.

But that is what TJ does best I am afraid.

The guy in question is an experienced rider on his third bike (albeit with a large break in his twenties and thirties which I accept). And I can honestly say, hand firmly on heart, that he will be one of the safest riders around and most certainly not because he is hesitant.

But let's not let what I know as a fact get in the way of the wild assumptions TJ is making in order to back up his rather flimsy argument.

Molgrips – thats what the stats say. Of course anyone can have an accident but the typical and common accident is a born again on a country road at under the speed limit on a tight bend. The fast boys tend to have far less accidents. Simply because to ride fast you nede a much higher level of skill. Thats fast in motorcycle term – all bike are fast in car terms.

snidey about MFs pal – you got me bang to rights- – but from the description MF gave of him he is right in the demographic that has serious accidents.

Edit:

MF – your pal is not experienced. 2 yrs recent experience. A few years decades ago is irrelevant. Has he had advanced training? His 3rd bike? How amny miles? I would say 100 000 + to be experienced.

An experienced rider is someone like PP or Juan with decades experience and how on earth can you say he is a safe rider – you do not have the experience to judge.

But TJ's right. Pretty much bang on. If you've not ridden a motorbike, you simply don't have a clue. Honestly, you don't. 🙂
What you, the car driver, might think is unexpected, isn't.
What looks dangerous, isn't. It's that simple. It really is.

Bikes are smaller, quicker, lighter, more manouverable. There's no windscreen pillars blocking your view to the front or rear. You're higher up. You can position yourself anywhere on the road (Either side of it) very easily to get a far better view of stuff than you can ever dream of in a car. This is what enables you to travel faster: You can see more. Lots more. And you can hear it, and feel it, and (In the case of DERV on the road!) smell it too.
And mostly, you're not sitting insulated from the world in a quiet, comfy air conditioned bubble, listening to the radio and fiddling with the sat-nav.
You're part of your surroundings, no distractions, 100% concentration because, yes, you know you're vunerable, you KNOW someone in a car is GOING TO get up your nose at some point soon, and that's all you have to do: Concentrate.
And this is how you've been trained.

It's utterly astonishing how fast it's possible to get from A to B on a motorbike, without ever feeling rushed, taking the slightest risk, or even going too far over the speed limits.

I'm not trying to be controversial here, but someone who has only ever driven a car simply doesn't have the foggiest, and that's why argumnets like this happen. Step out of your bubble, give it a go. You might not like it, but odds-on you probably would…. And then you'd begin to understand why…. 🙂

MF – your pal is not experienced. 2 yrs recent experience. A few years few years decades ago is irrelevant. Has he had advanced training?

An experienced rider is someone like PP or Juan with decades experience and how on earth can you say he is a safe rider – you do not have the experience to judge.
Why is previous experience irrelevant? It is still riding experience – he rode for probably 4 years or more back then.

I accept he is not as experienced as others, but 2 years daily riding means he has gained plenty of experience.

I cannot judge he is a safe rider perhaps, but I can assume his riding ability will match his driving ability which is much more than you can ever hope to be able to do.

<snip> Step out of your bubble, give it a go. You might not like it, but odds-on you probably would…. And then you'd begin to understand why….

There you go MF, give it a go and you'll never have to endure being called names by TJ again. 🙂

BTW, born again? Where does a 5 year break and recent experience being limited to a crappy old BMW K75 measure up in all this? Just asking like….

D. evils Advocate.

I'm sorry, come into this late, and to be honest by the crap being spouted not sure i want to join the debate but….

The fast boys tend to have far less accidents.

What UTTER UTTER UTTER UTTER Drivel.

ZZZZZZZZZZ

And yet you keep on coming back!

And yet you keep on coming back!

I know – the continued absurd posts keep drawing me in – I really shouldn't let them. And unfortunately there is no footie on till 3pm today to distract me.

Simply because to ride fast you nede a much higher level of skill

Total and utter bull. Any idiot, even a half asleep middle lane hogger who can't calculate the time to the next lorry can make a bike go fast, all you need to do is twist the throttle and know how to change gears. Dead simple. Doing it without hurting yourself, that's a bit more tricky.
But like pp says, being aware of your vulnerability is how you ride quick and safe. Forward planning and envoirnmental awareness, competely missing from the average car drivers aresnal of abilities as they fiddle with their sad nav of wrap themselves up in Barry manilow's greatest shit, totally oblivous to the world around them, are key factors in any safe bike ride. But that doesn't mean all riders have them. Given the "mummy, mummy look at the bad biker in leather" attitude of the likes of molgripes and mastiles-fannyboy (oh look, he overtook without indicating, slow lane? not for me boy, I'm driving a CAR) are you surprised how apoplectic they get when someone behaves like an idiot?

LHS – you got anything to back that up? My assertion is backed with the stats

Travelling in excess of the speed limit was considered
to be a contributory factor in just 3.5% accidents on the motorcycle accident
database.

http://mile-muncher.co.uk/dft_rdsafety_035422.pdf

Edit :

Other more recent statistics than the DETR report showed that there has been a shift in location of accidents from urban to rural environments and that the peak age for accidents has moved away from young to "born again" riders.

Have a read of this
http://www.survivalskills.clara.net/riding_skills_6.htm

Boblo – depends how old you are an how much experience before – and a K75 is a real bike 🙂

TJ, that is a VAST difference between excess of the speed limit and excessive speed. Take a quick look at page 22/23 of your report talking about 15% of accidents coming from people binning it due to excessive speed in corners.

But, you carry on thinking the way you do, darwinism will play its role soon enough! 😯

Given the "mummy, mummy look at the bad biker in leather" attitude of the likes of molgripes and mastiles-fannyboy

WTF is that about? In the OP I complained about the guy being offensive to me, it had absolutely NOTHING at all to do with the fact he was on a motorbike beyond the fact that I could see his actions clearly. On OTHER threads all I have ever said about motorcycling is that it is dangerous, and some motorcyclists ride like c**ts. So no different to any other driver.

Where the F*CK do you get off having a go at me for something you've MADE UP? Presumably because you want to feel better than some other forum poster you've never met?

LHS – Do you ride a motorbike? More than 250 000 miles over 30 yrs here

Read up a bit more. its not excess speed for the road or the capabilities of the bike – its the capabilities of the rider.

So an experienced rider could do that corner at taht speed. Teh inexperienced throttles off or brakes in panic and crashes

BINGO Did someone put the kettle on or is that just the sound of piss boiling?

Where the F*CK do you get off having a go at me for something you've MADE UP? Presumably because you want to feel better than some other forum poster you've never met?

But back to the point, 400 yards is a long way to stay out to overtake the next vehicle…. 😆

PS, I am shaking my head in disbelief that you rose to that

Ok fair cop.. I am feeling generally annoyed this afternoon and had my mardy glasses still on.

But back to the point, 400 yards is a long way to stay out to overtake the next vehicle….

*drags CK from his computer and pounds him repeatedly in the face*

Molgrips – lay off the coffee and do some yoga before your drive home. Pleeeeezzzze

But back to the point, 400 yards is a long way to stay out to overtake the next vehicle….

for a car or a motorbike? How experienced is the rider? Is he mates with TJ or M-F? 🙄

Please? Well only if you agree to stop being so mother***king anal about the highway code and nitpicking other people's arguments.. 🙂

Why does anyone bother arguing with TJ? he's clearly a professional internet waster, must spend hours, days even searching for snippets of stats and 'facts' to back up his ascertions and statements.

The thing is TJ, you're probably right most of the time, trouble is you end up arguing with people equally convinced of their own intellegence.

It's not like anything changes through these arguments either, monumental waste of time.

Ok fair cop.. I am feeling generally annoyed this afternoon and had my mardy glasses still on.

But back to the point, 400 yards is a long way to stay out to overtake the next vehicle….

*drags CK from his computer and pounds him repeatedly in the face*

hehe yeah – hook, line and indeed sinker. Amused me anyway 🙂 Sorry molgrips!