Well no road user group is perfect as I said.

MF – your whole attitude to motorcyclists shows your complete ignorance.

Its obvious to anyone who rides bikes and reads your posts.

BTW – on the original thread you said your friend was new to bikes.

BTW – on the original thread you said your friend was new to bikes.

No I didn't. He had his first bike at 16 and he is 42 now. He went for a period of not having bikes, but has been riding one for the last couple of years. It is his brother who is new to riding – you must have misunderstood something or I badly described something.

And why do either of the examples (that happened to me and I have just posted up) show my ignorance of riding? Do either of those examples show good riding? Are either defensible?

MF, you may as well give up. It's impossible to persuade TJ of anything. He never stops…

So one of your friends was a born again with little recent experience, one a total newbie. Not the same as 28 yrs experience. 🙄

Both classics for the "riding a bike like driving a car" which is an automatic test fail as they hesitate far too long at junctions.

MF – every thread that you post on that mentions motorcycles you show your ignorance of riding – as you did in the example of your friends at the junction.

Just enjoy your smug ignorance and try to not endanger others with it please

Not the same as 28 yrs experience.

Problem is TJ, half the time you are acting like such a bell-end that we wonder what you were doing for those million years' experience in whatever is under discussion 😉

Maybe a darkside rider – did he have a hat on ?

MF – every thread that you post on that mentions motorcycles you show your ignorance of riding – as you did in the example of your friends at the junction.

You keep telling me I am ignorant yet have yet to prove a case where I have been ignorant. Apart from the example of my friend when you accept the other rider was in the wrong anyway.
🙄

I hope you have calmed down with all those capitals.

Totally unrelated but ….

It does makes me feel a bit better after having a major rant at the wife.
She complained big style when I lost the rag with a driver on a single track road that could not drive into a passing place.
I ended up driving through a ditch to get past, made me laugh as they were like the classic rabbit in the headlights frozen .. idiots ..

ps we have made up and I have calmed down now.

*bangs head*

One example not enough?

Molgrips – I don't want to give up. I am happy to continue to argue with TJ – it's entertaining.

To TandemJeremy blah blah

This is a forum after all ……….

it's entertaining.

You're not wrong, but I've finished my lunch now. Anybody got a spare sarnie? 😉

One example not enough?

Which example is that? The one where you accept that the other rider was in the wrong anyway? Both bikes in the wrong of course

FFS man. Your ignorance of the abilities of bikes led you to defend your inexperienced friends as riding safely – when its clear they were riding dangerously hesitantly. Tweo wrongs do not make a right – but you sid your friends were riding safely when infact they were riding dangerously. Your ignorance led you to this

And I I have already pointed out, there are reasons why he may have been stationery at the junction.

And there cannot be any defence of someone overtaking on a junction. Ever. Unless (which I am sure you are about to do) you can give me an example when it is safe to do so.

I did not defend the overtaker. I pointed out that your friend was riding badly and being dangerously hesitant – this is the point you seem unable to grasp in your ignorance.

Molgrips is right to stay in the central lane if necessary to pass more than one vehicle – I hate watching vehicles dodge in and out of lanes on mways – wether it be a busy or quiete time, how often do we see lorries fully committed to passing another lorry for 5 miles at a time? Molgrips was intending to do this manouver for perhaps half a mile?
Motorbikes are f,,,ing crazy on mways most of the time – sitting in blind spots etc.

No Jeremy – you have simply assumed that he was riding badly and being dangerously hesitant.

Molgrips is right to stay in the central lane if necessary to pass more than one vehicle

Not when the're 1/4 of a mile apart he's not. But that's water under the bridge now.

Motorbikes are f,,,ing crazy on mways most of the time – sitting in blind spots etc.

IME, motorbikes are rarely crazy on motorways. Certainly no more so than car drivers.
Which 'blind spot' are you talking about? Just behind the car on the driver's side, by any chance?

MF – if there was room for the other motorcyclst to get out into the flow of traffic your friend was hesitant.

This is just simple fact.

No it is not a fact. It is only your assumption. I have already pointed out one example of why it may not have been hesitant riding.

Telling me it is a fact does not make it so.

TandemJeremy – Member
MF – if there was room for the other motorcyclst to get out into the flow of traffic your friend was hesitant.

Shouldn't there be a "safely" in there somewhere? Probably after 'get' and before 'out' – otherwise you cannot be sure that MF's friend was being hesitant. Unless being hesitant and safe are the same thing?
How do you know whether the bloke who managed to pull out did so in a safe manner?

I agree that hesitancy can be a dangerous driving/riding trait but when stationary at a junction, hesitating is no more than merely annoying to people following.

I wish i was a goldfish sometimes, this thread may have retained my interest more that way.
FWIW if i was in the same situation its just as easy to stay in the lane you're in and complete the manouver, THEN move in. If the OP had been in the outside lane, its a different matter. The biker should have gone into the outside lane and passed without incident, instead he carries out an ILLEGAL move to prove a point. No need!

Molgrips is right to stay in the central lane if necessary to pass more than one vehicle – I hate watching vehicles dodge in and out of lanes on mways – wether it be a busy or quiete time,

Fine but that is not what the Highway code says you might as well say I hate to se a car doing 30 in a 30 zone

how often do we see lorries fully committed to passing another lorry for 5 miles at a time?

That is what you just defended in the sentence before I mean we dont wanted them dodging in and out even if the Highway code say the left lanes are for overtaking.

Molgrips was intending to do this manouver for perhaps half a mile?

you sure that quick?

Tj, to say he has no experience after 2 years riding is a bit naive, he might have clocked up 50,00miles in that time while you're poodling around for 28 years every weekend, my last bike I'd wacked 18,000 miles in under 6 months.

Middle lane drivers ah, enough said on that one I think.

Motorcyclist was a cock.

If the motorway is quiet an outside lane is free then take your time.

And AFAIK TJ hasn't done much motorbiking in the last 5 years

Two years recent riding plus about 4 years as a kid (when he WAS an idiot rider including one amusing incident when he took a short-cut through a school car park at night and didn't see the chain across the entrance) 😆

Highway code question, when is it fine to stay in the middle lane, only when passing something in the left lane.

mf pmsl……..brings back good times

Anyone fancy a lift on the back of my motorcycle down the motorway – it can be quite fun weaving in and out of the traffic using vehicles like slalom poles 🙂

Anyone fancy a lift on the back of my motorcycle down the motorway – it can be quite fun weaving in and out of the traffic using vehicles like slalom poles 🙂

MF = two years as a leisure rider I guess? A couple of thousand miles a year? So actually rather inexperienced not the 28yrs experience you claimed. 🙄

he is actually the most likely type of rider to crash born agains are hugely overrepresented in the accident states purely because they overestimate their skills.

Me – around 250 000 miles on bikes over 30+ years. None for the last few years so I would be very cautious out on a bike again. It would take mne a couple of thousand miles to get back up to speed at least

If my memory serves me right Molgrips is fairly anti-motorcyclist so this thread comes as no surprise. If indeed it did happen.

Heh.. Jamie all I said was that motorcycling is risky. Show me a stat that says otherwise?

I actually feel a warm glow of respect whenever I see a motorcyclist riding safely and sensibly. Not particularly uncommon on a motorway, but rare on country roads even if they are busy and restricted.

But Jamie, do you seriously think that people make stuff up on the forum just to.. well.. I dunno..? Is that really likely?

So actually rather inexperienced not the 28yrs experience you claimed.

I haven't claimed he has 28 years experience – I have clearly stated the experience he has.

And he hasn't crashed or come close to crashing as far as I am aware (at least not since getting back into bikes) so I do not see what that has to do with this particular discussion.

I say again – he was overtaken whilst he was waiting at a junction. You are making the rest up all by yourself.

And yet again you prove this by saying two years as a leisure rider I guess? In fact he uses the bike daily to commute.

MF you won't win, seriously. Let it go.

mastiles_fanylion – Member

But my friend has been riding for 26 years

🙄 26 you claimed not 28.. My mistake

Back to the OP….

I've no idea how anyone managed to cast judgement on this as we don't have enough info. I'm assuming the 400yds mentioned is 400yds between the two lorries. The key bit of info required and missing is the closing speed. If you were only doing 1mph more than the 2nd lorry that 400yds could take (quick bit of maths) 15mins – if your closing speed was 30mph then it's 30secs.

No idea what the "rules" are on these things but I'd call it a single overtaking manoeuvre and stay out if there was about 20secs between vehicles overtakes, a bit less on a busy road, a bit more on a quiet one. Other factors to effect my judgement call would be if there was another lane free to my right, if there was someone closing fast behind, if there was someone who had been closing fast behind but was now waiting behind me and I could release and the likelihood that moving in left would get me boxed in. Without being there, exactly what is best is impossible to judge. Also one man's 400yds is another's 200 eh chaps!

I have been annoyed by middle laners in the past and (not proud to say) have been known to show it by moving swiftly from the fast to the slow once (just safely) past them. I never get annoyed if you can see what they are doing though, i.e. making a very long overtake, even if it's not exactly how I would act. No stats one way or another but I would imagine a lot of accidents on motorways are centred around one car lane changing so all of us doing more than necessary is probably not a good thing. The only middle laners that actually annoy me are those that do so on nearly empty roads with the next car in the left hand lane ages away or actaully travelling faster than the middle laner.

Police got a bloke 5 min from my house not long ago doing 181mph on a country road, I only know that as he stopped the GF for doing 35mph the week later.

As the other rider was able to complete the manoeuvre then this shows your friend was too hesitant.

Its a very common fault amongst born again riders such as your mate. Because you have no knowledge or understanding of bikes you cannot understand this which is clearly obvious to anyone who has

Your friend was dangerously hesitant causing frustration in another rider which led to the other rider being reckless.

People commonly fail their riding test for being hesitant in exactly this manner

You were not there. I was not there. I understand bikes, you do not. I'd put my house on my guess being more accurate than your guess