BBC Breakfast: Should helmets for cyclists be made compulsory

I prefer the “There’s people with guns going around killing other people, we’ve got to do something about it. Lets make everyone wear bullet proof vests” analogy.

Making cyclists wear helmets is like giving the guy in a cage a stick to protect himself when really you’d be more help doing something about the Lion!

I don’t even know where to begin in dismissing that analogy.

I’ve picked up on two very different angles to this. Some of us (me included) are recreational cyclists who encounter minimal risk from 3rd parties. We ride in relatively low-level traffic or even traffic-free environments. We perceive the risk from other road/trail users as smaller than that posed by ourselves to ourselves. If I’m hurtling downhill at 40mph I’m far more worried about what I might do to cause myself to crash than I am about others causing me to crash.

Clearly others are coming from the angle of cyclists having to share busy roads with many other road users, where the risk of a 3rd party being at fault for an incident is much greater than rider error. I hope I never have an incident that causes me to fall into this group.

Making cyclists wear helmets is like giving the guy in a cage a stick to protect himself when really you’d be more help doing something about the Lion!.

Misleading logic.

A helps a bit, but B would help a lot. A is easy, B is hard, so why should we not bother with A?

@KLUNK, imo, it wouldn’t make any difference, bikes are stolen to order. It might cut down opportunist theft IF the police were there, which they’re not…

A helps a bit, but B would help a lot. A is easy, B is hard, so why should we not bother with A?

Because then it looks like you’ve done something productive when you haven’t.

Bit like if you’re given the task of developing a cheap electric car with wifi connection to your phone.
Deciding you’re going to concentrate on the wifi connection as it’s easier isn’t a useful outcome.

Because then it looks like you’ve done something productive when you haven’t.

Bit like if you’re given the task of developing a cheap electric car with wifi connection to your phone.
Deciding you’re going to concentrate on the wifi connection as it’s easier isn’t a useful outcome.

This is just defending a poor analogy with one that is even worse.

I ride on roads that have potholes and – recently – have been poorly surface-dressed. This increases the likelihood of me crashing my bike. Whilst it is commendable and desirable to lobby the council to fix the problems with the roads, that neither affects nor should preclude putting my helmet on to make me (feel) safer.

Because then it looks like you’ve done something productive when you haven’t.

That’s conjecture, and besides, if A helps a bit then by doing A you’ve helped a bit, which is better than nothing.

You’re advocating turning the nation’s motorists into careful considerate drivers. Now I’d love that, but really, it’s a bit of a long shot isn’t it?

I ride on roads that have potholes and – recently – have been poorly surface-dressed. This increases the likelihood of me crashing my bike. Whilst it is commendable and desirable to lobby the council to fix the problems with the roads, that neither affects nor should preclude putting my helmet on to make me (feel) safer.

And if i am in the situation where i think i might crash because for a better idea my actions then i will wear a helmet. But if i am going under the wheels of a 40′ trailer why bother?

and there is nothing stopping you wearing a helmet, no one is saying don’t wear one. But if your riding to the corner shop or to work on a smooth pothole free cycle path, you might decide you can’t be bothered to grab your helmet, the hassle, helmet hair, hot day, etc etc.

You’re advocating turning the nation’s motorists into careful considerate drivers. Now I’d love that, but really, it’s a bit of a long shot isn’t it?

No just asking for the police to do their job….

This increases the likelihood of me crashing my bike. Whilst it is commendable and desirable to lobby the council to fix the problems with the roads, that neither affects nor should preclude putting my helmet on to make me (feel) safer.

However if the debate about pothole safety focused principally on the helmet wearing and not on the yawning chasms appearing in front of you you’d have the right to feel that someone, somewhere was missing the point.

Sorry, I was trying to point out the foolishness of the analogies above which took this whole thread off topic.

This is about whether helmets should be compulsory. I shall butt out. Apologies for the diversion. As you were everyone 🙂

No just asking for the police to do their job

For the police to do their job there would have to be three times as many. So, tripled council tax anyone?

You seem to be under the impression that forcing a nation to change their feelings on a particular subject is somehow really easy.

molgrips – Member

For the police to do their job there would have to be three times as many. So, tripled council tax anyone?

Because every penny of council tax goes to police wages.

Is anyone else sensing this thread has run its course?

Because every penny of council tax goes to police wages.

That was hypothetical.. whatever the numbers end up being, the point is that to police the millions of drivers on the roads you’d need a huge number of extra officers, and that would cost an awful lot of money. Which would have to be found through taxation.

That’s conjecture, and besides, if A helps a bit then by doing A you’ve helped a bit, which is better than nothing.

But your straw man is conjecture too. The ‘A’ option of helmet compulsion just doesn’t have credible evidence to conclude that it adds to the sum of human years on the planet. All the evidence both for and against is just wallowing around in statistical noise. Also it’s diversionary. If the aim is to increase lifespans then the ‘C’ option of helmet compulsion for car occupants pedestrians and cyclists would be just a simple to implement, but for some reason isn’t on any agenda.

No just asking for the police to do their job….

Generally, really bad drivers get caught. The problem is, they don’t get to court or they get pitiful sentences and then get back on the roads again. The issue’s not the police, it the CPS and the courts.

That’s conjecture, and besides, if A helps a bit then by doing A you’ve helped a bit, which is better than nothing.

There are lots of things that are relatively easy to do which would help without risking a huge drop in cycling numbers though.

Presumed liability for instance.

But your straw man is conjecture too

I’m not setting up a straw man, I’m pointing out poor logic. I am tending towards the non-compulsion argument, but I’m not sure.

Too much arguing, not enough pedalling. Here is a picture of people on a bike having more fun than yous.

That man does not look like he’s having fun.

Maybe the reason for the grimace is the same as the reason for the lads smile? 😆

Yes, i think it should be a legal requirement to wear a helmet. Just like it is to wear a seatbelt or a helmet on a moped.

It might also help support local bike shops too.

Yes, i think it should be a legal requirement to wear a helmet.

Well that’s that settled then 😀

Does anyone know what BBC Breakfast finally decided?

I’m against compulsory helmets mostly because it’s a bicycle for goodness sake. If you are for the idea of making me wear a helmet to the shops I’m afraid we have no common ground on this.

I’m against compulsory helmets mostly because it’s a bicycle for goodness sake. If you are for the idea of making me wear a helmet to the shops I’m afraid we have no common ground.

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