Banshee Rune or Spitfire?

No worries buddy.

Get one on order….you know it makes sense!

My default view is to assume that the problem lies with me, not the bike – one reason I kept exclusively riding a hardtail for so long – so if the bike isn’t performing brilliantly I’ll spend quite a while thinking about what I’m doing wrong before blaming my tools… I don’t really have a good reference point for what difference the 27.5″ wheels make because I’ve gone from a 26″ steel hardtail with 140mm Float 32s, a 2″ shorter wheelbase and a 68 deg head angle at ride height – too many variables! And I’m running a 1kg almost-dual-ply knobbly-as-hell front tyre on the Spitfire.

I rode the Spitfire a lot in our first month together but didn’t do enough stretching and gradually got worse at chucking it around the tight turns – I started thinking I needed wider bars to give me more leverage to tip the bike over but then I realised my hips had got so stiff that I couldn’t move my bodyweight far enough or fast enough to boss the bike around. I’m sorting my creaking body out but just reminding myself to move those bloody hips makes a big difference.

I really like the Spitfire in the air, it’s very balanced and stable and makes takeoffs and landings feel a lot more ideal than they really are. The funny thing about these slightly bigger wheels is that I don’t notice them feeling significantly different to 26″ wheels but then I wonder why other people are dragging their brakes when we’re freewheeling down a fire road. I don’t know how much of its ability to make up ground in rock gardens is due to the suspension, geometry or wheels but it certainly rockets up behind other riders when the trails get proper gnarly.

Regarding the CCDBair, the base tunes are a great place to start. If you want to then dial it in for yourself then either go through the field tuning guide procedure – set aside some hours of analytical riding on good trails – or just change things subtly, one control at a time, so you can get a feel for the changes. I’m still on the base tune settings for 3/4 of the adjustments with no volume spacers added either.

The climb switch is very cool – I don’t use it often because the KS-link is so good at suppressing bob but it’s nice to have it when your legs are feeling tired and there’s a big climb ahead. It doesn’t feel at all like a lockout, in fact it’s hard to tell the difference between on and off when climbing except by looking down at the shock or flicking it back and forth and feeling the subtle gain in efficiency when it’s on. If you forget to turn it off when descending you notice the back end kicking back a lot more, like all the plushness has gone – though hit something big/fast/square enough and it’ll use the usual high speed damping and soak it up.

The climb switch only affects the low speed damping circuits – when it’s off the shock uses the externally adjustable LSC & LSR circuits but when it’s on the oil passes through the climb switch’s dedicated LSR & LSC circuits (which is preset in the factory for whichever frame it’s been bought). I imagine the climb switch has a much more obvious effect if it’s preset for a frame that needs more help like a single pivot Orange or even one of the popular linkage driven single pivot designs.

The good thing about the climb switch is it allows me to run it with less LSC for the downhills as I use the CS when ever I’m not pointed down.

The good thing about the climb switch is it allows me to run it with less LSC for the downhills as I use the CS when ever I’m not pointed down.

Just another bit of awesomeness – if you just use the base settings it rides great but there’s so much flexibility to tweak the frame/fork/shock combo for your specific riding. Most of the descents around here feature a fair bit of pedalling if you want to ride them fast so I guess I have things set up for more for that vibe whilst yours is more set up for winch and plummet riding.

Because we’re riding on woodland dirt the less steep pedally trails are more heavily ridden and tend to be the roughest as they’re eroded down to more tree roots, potholes and chalk whilst the push-up and plummet trails are generally smoother (but scarier as they’re either slippery mud or dry loose ball bearings for 90% of the year…)

The guys recommending runes or spitfire, I don’t think the difference in sizing has been mentioned yet. For me, the spitfire’s longer reach had a larger bearing on my choice than the extra 20mm travel or slacker head angle.

Goodgrief fair point, that’s a big part of why I’ve been asking about 650b wheels as they do push the bike up a bit – on paper the Spitfire looks to suit the bigger wheels better in terms of bottom bracket height and resulting drop but the bike lengthens a bit more than the Rune too. That’s all on paper though, so means probably squat.
Shorter reach for me isn’t a bad thing as I’ve got helluva ape index. I’ll probably just get the Rune and then wish I’d got the Spitfire, which would be mirrored perfectly if I got the Spitfire. I’ll also probably get 26″ wheels and wish I’d gone 650b when all the soothsayers turn out to be right and no one makes 26ers anymore and everyone’s made up about their straight line speed through fall chunder.

I was lucky enough to demo a Spitfire today courtesy of Pedals in Edinburgh. It was a medium so a bit short for me at 6ft wanting a trail bike but perfectly rideable around the Glentress black loop.

The set up was 160mm 650b X-fusion sweeps, CCDBAcs and Flow Ex. The forks were the major downer, feeling hopelessly out classed by the shock in all regards. A Pike would be a much better match.

Having ridden it I would say that it is a fantastic climber, incredibly so, particularly with the climb switch on. It never used more travel than required, had no funny compression episodes and provided bags of traction. I expected it to be good on the downs and, fork aside, wasn’t disappointed. I also think that 26″ wheels would lower the BB too much in the slack setting, maybe even to the point of needing shorter cranks. The 650b wheels still gave a stable ride and even then you have to time pedaling through rocky stuff to avoid strikes.

It handled every obstacle on the black route without breaking stride or even feeling slightly stretched. On the basis of todays ride I imagine the Rune would be total overkill unless you are doing mostly shuttled riding, big, big drops or almost DH style stuff. Anything less and I think the Spitfire would be better.

Shackleton that certainly echoes what monkeyninja and others here have said, it sounds like a very capable frame. I do fully intend to hit up some downhill trails here in Wales both at parks and in the normal actual world. My main focus is getting one frame that can be fun on my local trails but still handle the bigger stuff with its bigger jumps and landings. I know that Keith the designer has ridden his Spitfire down Fort William, not at race pace, but still. To be fair, I believe he’s a very solid rider (I’m not but want a frame to grow into).
From what others on here have said, the Rune uses its travel similarly wisely and has pop, can pedal well and climb plus hit the big stuff. When I contacted Banshee, they recommended the Rune, saying it was designed to be nimble and to truly do it all.
I don’t really care about being over or underbiked, I want to have fun. I may well be overbiked on either!
Having said all that, I don’t know the trail you tested it on (though I will, in Edinburgh for a month later this year so will check it out). Thanks for your feedback, certainly made me think.

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/357232/%5B/video%5D%5D

Amazing video if you haven’t come across it yet. With the Spitfire.

Jimmy, I’d have bought a Rune if I lived in Wales – and I’m not someone who goes big off jumps and drops though I am a fairly wheels in the air rider. I’d also have XX1, or 2×10 or at least 1×10 with a 42t range extender cog, not standard 1×10 (which works great around our shorter climbs but does demand I attack them!)

At a long-armed 5’10.5″ a medium Spitfire fits great (50mm stem) but if my regular riding was on faster rougher trails I’d go up to a large Rune for the extra reach and wheelbase and run a 35 or 40mm stem.

If you need to buy wheels and forks then I’d get 27.5 wheels – unless you’re dirt jumping and doing tricks in the air I think the pros comfortably outweigh the cons. They do raise the BB by 10mm but you have 12mm of BB height adjustment from the dropouts, before you start playing with fork and shock sag – and they are low slung bikes to start with! I’ve heard from a number of bike designers that the increased BB drop possible with 27.5 gives better cornering (and one of those designers didn’t have any 27.5 bikes in their range at the time!) for the same pedal clearance.

If you already have good 26″ wheels and/or a nice 26″ fork I can’t see the benefit of 27.5 being big enough to justify the cost.

To note: It’s the spitfire with the longer reach, not the Rune.

Personal opinion (as a spitfire rider) Is that the rune is overkill for this country. I run my spitfire with the CCDB and pikes and in the slackest setting: Its happily done the bucknell dh, BPW, Cwmcarn… And taken it all in its stride. Its actually a very confident place to be when deceding, good geometry, don’t expect the amount of traction you would get from a DH bike.

The spitfire climbs brilliantly, though I hear the rune does to, the advantages of the spitfire in my mind are that you are in more direct contact with the ground: It jumps brilliantly and rails berms fantastically.

Just my $0.02

Yes, Rune’s reach is about 10mm shorter for a given size – but if your riding justifies the bigger bike then you can easily go up a size for more reach and wheelbase.

If you get the Spitfire I can’t see you ever being disappointed with its descending ability or the Rune with its climbing ability (for such a big bike).

adamhicks, curious to know if you’ve ridden the Rune too?
I completely understand that ground feedback is an advantage for you, it’s what I loved about my hardtail, I often felt surer of the back end than the forks, and the forks were great. In fact so much so I may think again about selling the frame off and build it up again later.
Thanks again all for feedback. I reckon this thread probably needs some pictures too though…

If this is gonna be your only bike go for the rune. If you have access to a dh bike go for the spitfire. I rode my spitfire at falkland bike park which has some big drops and gaps and although it handled it I did wish I was riding my dh bike. I’ve ridden my spitfire at innerliethen and its coped well again there were times when I wished I was on my dh bike but for most of it the spififre felt good.
So what I saying is you know what kind of trails you want to be riding, if there going to be big dh trails with jumps drops etc and you have no dh bike go rune, if they are mellower small jumps nd drops or you have a big bike go spitfire. If your ever at glentress or inners when you come to Edinburgh you can try my spitfire if you want.

Nope, not ridden a rune. Though I would like to! Ridden plenty of 160 bikes though and find the 140 more suited. Actually, on further consideration I might be inclined to agree with Monkey Ninja above.

I got a spitfire as a do everything bike after getting rid of a DH bike, 4 months later and I have a DH bike again… Don’t think it will ever get brought out of the shed but for the summer trips I think Its worth it. Pictures to follow!

To add to the above. If you are in Wiltshire this week or Surrey next week you can have a go on mine!

Nice one gents, wish I was at either of those places. Thanks for the offers. Tragically I got drunk and now I’m a dad so can’t make it.
Rune it is. I definitely want to ride the bigger stuff, and having the Rune might give me the margin of error I need to hit them with confidence. I found after I was lucky enough to ride an uplift day in Queenstown on a girder of a Speccy that my confidence had definitely increased when I got back on my hardtail. Incidentally, a few Runes running about there.
Adamhicks, I’ll definitely hit up both of those spots, looking forward to it massively. F*cking love Scotland.
Even though I’ve made my decision, pictures are always good thing…

Sorry, meant monkeyninja I’ll hit up both those spots this summer. Got confused. It’s certainly not that I don’t value you both as unique individuals.

Thanks again all for feedback. I reckon this thread probably needs some pictures too though…

Looks evil. Awesome bike, looks like it’ll last. I wanted a DP Pike on a black on black frame but, the white lowers…
Anyone else?

You won’t need a travel adjust fork, the chain tension keeps the rear high and if you drop the front it feels too low.

This is when I first built it up its now got back wheels, dropper and 35mm stem

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Might as well post mine again to add some variance in colour:) im going stir crazy at the moment as I still cant ride due to my broken wrist….

Nice bikes lads. I’ve sold my forks, so will be ordering my Rune tomorrow.
goodgrief, thanks for that. Also found out that the dual position ones won’t allow for the bottomless tokens which I think I will take advantage of, being so light I could put one of them in and run lower pressure, less compression damping.
Awesome weather for riding coming up, soz bout your wrist theraggyone.

Good lad…get it bought! What colour are you going for?

Was out on mine dong more natural trails and it was great fun. I had a son on my mates carbon Stumpy which is a few pounds lighter than mine and it didn’t feel like a weighty big tank of a bike. It’s a much lighter feeling bike than the current Enduro’s.

I’d echo the comments about getting the Rune as your one and only bike. It may feel like too much bike sometimes (not that I subscribe to that theory now that these bikes pedal and climb so well) bit it’ll cope with most UK downhills. I had a blast on mine at BPW and have my return visit booked.

They climb really well….it’s a much nicer bike to climb on than my Stanton which is horrible to climb on. The climbing has really blown me away. A bike this slack with that much travel shouldn’t comb the way it does. The KS link generates a shed load of traction.

I doubt you’ll be disappointed.

Black on black. Original… Was going to go for the green when I saw it in the flesh in Queenstown, it looks awesome, but the rider riding it was also awesome. So black on black, with black Pikes. SLX deal that bikeactive do, with some requests they’re happy to fulfill for the same price. Won’t exactly be bought, finance until doomsday I believe.
Hopefully will be in time to get to Brechfa next weekend if people I know are riding it…
Interesting you say that about the Stanton, thought it was sacrilege to say anything bad about them- they look like really nice frames.

I could live with a spitfire but with my rune I can do what I like 🙂

Another excuse to post a pic

That orange is properly awesome. Wonder if there’s any left…

Got a test ride of the spitfire next weekend. I cant see why i wont be getting one 🙂

Black looks particularly awesome. Do they come with the option of the stealth graphics or have you guys just removed the white ones??

Jimmy, the orange is Ltd Edition

Stealth graphics as standard.
Yes… Limited… I’ll just go black. People would be expecting great things of me with that colour. Nice bike though.

That’s what I like about my black Rune, people don’t really notice when you’re surrounded by people on fluro bikes (and I love the bright colours). I intend to have it fir a fair while, so I figured that it wouldn’t date…it wasn’t that long ago that colour was considered bad and everything had to be black.

The black with black decals looks evil.

I love my Stanton but it’s a pig to climb on. There’s another chap I know who has one and thinks the same. Great fun for charging about on though.

Large black on black Rune ordered, Pike, 35mm stem, 650b wheels in 26″ dropouts…
Thanks for all your help gents, made my decision much easier. Even cleared it with the missus 😀

Interested to see the 650 wheels in 26 drop-outs, I know a guy in Germany runs a spitfire like that but haven’t seen any pics of the tyre clearance. I went the other way initially with 26 wheels in 650 drop-outs and liked it a lot but it was a cost cutting move as I knew I’d be building 650 wheels soon enough.

From what I’ve heard a few times, 26″ can fit hans dampf 2.35, so should easy get the HR2 I’ve asked for in them. I’ll post up a photo when I get the bike, should be early next week… Not excited.

Sounds awesome! However, I’d get the 27.5 dropouts – with a large frame and 160mm 27.5 fork you have a very long front centre (47″ wheelbase) and I think you’ll find it better balanced with the slightly longer chainstays. Plus the extra mud clearance is always worth having in this country – I think you’ll hear a lot of mud scraping going on from the seatstay brace with a HR2 in there come the autumn, especially in the low/slack setting.

I know short chainstays are very much in fashion but I think it’s much more about balancing chainstay length with wheelbase (front centre + chainstay = wheelbase) otherwise it can be harder to get enough grip at the front on flatter corners or to balance a rear or both wheel drift.

A few people on mtbr use 650b with 26 dropouts with no problems, unless it’s really muddy or high volume tires think anything under 2.35 will be fine, if I change to 650b then I’d probably just keep the 26 dropouts. I am interested in hearing from anyone who is using a 150mm 650b pike with 26 wheels. How does this combo work for you?

jimmy, where did you order it from?

great to hear people are having a blast riding the new Runes and Spitfires

when I worked for Freeborn we had a heap of trouble with the 1st generation bikes using the old bushing pivots, and moving forward Keith @ Banshee worked crazy hard to redesign the bikes with the new K.S. (Keith Scott) Link suspension and ball bearing pivots

very pleased to see that Ison Distribution has been making some proper inroads into wider distribution of the Banshee brand to UK dealers

currently I am not riding a FS bike, but a Banshee would be first choice, and probably a Spitfire with 650 wheels 🙂

monkeyninja – I’m running 150mm 650b Pikes with 26 inch wheels and they feel fine. They have a 10mm greater axle to crown length than the 150mm 26 inch forks so give the bike an equivalent geometry to how it was designed.

As I’ve never run 26 inch forks on the bike I can’t really compare how it feels to ride, all I can say is that the bike works great for me. You just have a bit of extra tyre clearance, and future options…

I currently use 09 van rc2 and they almost feel like to much fork on easier trails. I was thinking that a 150mm Pike would probably make the ride a bit more engaging rather than just plowing through everything. I thought the 650b Pike would be the right fork for keeping the angles the same as well as future proofing the purchase.