Bangernomics – petrol beats diesel right?

Time for a new banger after the current one (£1000 – 2.5 years service – 45k faultless miles) has suffered a fatal brain injury in the engine management unit. Pain in the ass.

All three of the bangernomics specials I’ve run have been petrol as I reckoned that a) at 18k miles per year they would be cheaper to run b) cheaper to buy c) cheaper to service/repair d) generally simpler.

I live in fear of an expensive repair, which from this place seems to be an occupational hazard for diesels…

Is my thinking correct or flawed?

Previously I’d run a Toyota Carina for 5 years until it was about 16 years old, then we acquired a Mazda 323 which we ran for 5 years until it was 16 years old. Both of those we sold on.
Now we have a 10 yo Renault Scenic 1.5 diesel which we got for £750 last year. It has its problems which im working through, normally they cost around £1200 ish for a similar age and spec. Its cheaper to run, cheaper to tax, parts are cheap and plentiful. Not particularly exciting but for what we need its fine.
However, I do all the work on the cars, which in the past has included clutches, cam belts, shocks etc etc.
If you’re prepared and capable of getting your hands dirty then it can be pretty cheap to do.

I’d lean towards petrol for other reasons but from a pure bangernomics point of view not much difference IMO.

I guess if you can get a diesel cheap enough (like I did) then it negates the extra you’d normally pay for one. We’re certainly liking the increased fuel economy in ours.

For 18k miles a year, if it were me, I’d prefer a high-miler diesel to a high-miler petrol, but only from times when they were simpler – i.e. older than current problems with mass flywheels and DPFs etc.

Older less complex diesels are not a problem, stuff that doesn’t have ERG valves and DPF just run forever.

Older Passats and stuff just go and go. My Escort was running on cooking oil when I got it. I use diesel as I was constantly looking around for used chippy wrappers, it stank.

1st rule of bangernomics there are no rules….
Every car is different so evaluate what you see

At 18k a year I would be on the look out for an old Audi or VW 1.9 diesel. Those things go on forever.

If yo get an older one you might be able to run it on cooking oil.

My preference would be petrol, diesel tech has been evolving and its my view they are more prone to expensive issues.

I think it depends on what’s available locally. I once bought a £800 diesel vectra that lasted me 45k and returned a good 45-50mpg average and cost very little in parts but it was an old fashioned diesel so more reliable.

I replaced that with a £1500 newer petrol vectra that despite not spotting how ruined it’s exhaust was when I bought it, was a good banger and I got 40k out of it. It was much more comfortable than the previous one and still managed 38mpg average.

If someone down the road is selling a pristine loved good condition car that used 1/3rd more fuel, I’d have that any day over a high miler complicated modern diesel at bangernomics.

I bought a low mileage bmw 320 LPG car, similar economy to diesel but no DMF, DPF, EGR, HP fuel pump & injectors, turbos etc to worry about. Its also a timing chain but is a manual so still has a clutch to change at some point.

Downside is it has a small ish range of ~200 miles and the rear dampers are worn out, probably from the extra weight of the lpg tank.

Are you really talking about bangernomics or just a cheap car? The whole point of bangernomics is that you buy as cheaply as possible and at the first sign of anything bigger than a headlight bulb or a wiper blade needing replaced you just leave it by the side of the road and start again. You don’t buy on how easy something is to fix, you buy on how long it will last without needing fixed.

I’d go for petrol just on the basis that it’ll feel less like driving a tractor

Take a look at some old Peugeot diesels.

For bangernomics, a big bill = new car time. For that reason, the extra expense of some diesel engine components just slightly increases the risk of needing a new car, but I don’t think this is that significant. Also to get reasonable performance you need a turbo on a diesel, which is another big money item if it goes wrong and increases the complexity of the engine management system (and therefore makes fault finding even harder).

What probably is more significant is that diesels will be perceived to be cheaper to run, and therefore will remain more expensive for longer. A large petrol engined car may be very cheap – at 18000 miles/year though I wouldn’t be surprised if a diesel was cheaper overall.

The whole point of bangernomics is that you buy as cheaply as possible and at the first sign of anything bigger than a headlight bulb or a wiper blade needing replaced you just leave it by the side of the road and start again. You don’t buy on how easy something is to fix, you buy on how long it will last without needing fixed.

Surely the threshold for repair vs replace is the cost of the new car? If something breaks on your banger, and you can fix it for £90 or get a new banger for £100, fixing it is still the better option, as you’re £10 better off and still own a banger. Actually, you own a banger with one part that is now slightly less likely to fail in the near future.

The only reason you might prefer the new banger is if it’s got longer before next MOT, but personally I’m uncomfortable with driving cars that are actually unroadworthy.

If you’re happy to DIY and use recycled parts, you can sort quite a lot for less than the cost of a new car.

Petrol Auto
Petrol Manual
Diesel Auto
Diesel Manual

in that order

^ I’ve had bad experiences with failing autos and now have a strong fear of them.

As for petrol vs. diesel, have you worked out the savings in fuel ? That will be extra money in the contingency fund in case it’s needed.

When I upped my annual mileage to ~15k I switched to a diesel, and it’s since increased again to ~20k miles. I always get over 50mpg (it has never gone lower, has been as high as 60), the petrol car it replaced I could *just* get 40mpg if really really tried.

That’s at least £500/year saved in fuel costs and in two and a quarter years it’s cost me about £300 in repairs for a fuel pump & exhaust, which could just as easily happen to a petrol car.

Older diesels, newer petrols.
Any diesel that is euro4 or newer is getting a lot more complicated, better power/performance figures, but more likely to suffer a pricey failure.
Newer petrols are more efficient, but with little increased complexity, just further refined.
I reckon around 2002 is about the turning point.

Petrol cars generally cheaper as diesels are currently more desirable.
Also depends on what you can find and how much of a rush you are in.

fatal brain injury in the engine management unit.

is it definitely fatal? had an ECU/ immobiliser problem sorted for £120 (including 4 UPS deliveries) BBA reman did the work but there others similar.

Petrol cars generally cheaper as diesels are currently more desirable.

That’s been my experience. Though I’m slightly confused by this talk of ‘servicing’ of bangers. Every now and then I’d get enthusiastic and a set of pads off EBay, but it usually went away after a while if I sat down.

I tend to run petrol as the fear of a large bill from a diesel scares me. I also like that I can do a basic service eg plus etc. Wouldn’t have a clue where to start with a diesel, although that’s just ignorance as I’ve never looked into it.

EGR valve went on the Mrs’ car and that cost £600 to fix…I could get a car for that 🙂

Interesting responses and no clear answer, so I think I’ll probably stick with petrol.

Also interesting the distinction between cheap cars and bangernomics… I’m not going to spend more than a grand on this new car. Is that a cheap car or a banger? Feels like a banger when there is another thread arguing merits of a Porsche v BMW 😮

You can get an early Accord Tourer 2.0 petrol with a years ticket for a grand, the perfect banger IMHO.

18k is reasonable mileage a year to save fuel by buying a diesel. My 13 year old 1.9 tdi golf is brilliant, but at 140k miles is starting to worry me if turbo/dmf/injectors fail as that will be £1000 bill straight away.
Its a gamble really at this price point.

I don’t think bangernomics is about ditching at the first bill over a £100. More a case of ditching it when something better can be bought for the cost of repair.
Sometimes it is worth repairing anyway, better the banger you know than one with unknown potential problems.

“The whole point of bangernomics is that you buy as cheaply as possible and at the first sign of anything bigger than a headlight bulb or a wiper blade needing replaced you just leave it by the side of the road and start again. You don’t buy on how easy something is to fix, you buy on how long it will last without needing fixed.”

Everytime you change cars you buy into a whole new world of unknown.

I would rather fix and service a known good banger and know it isnt going to fail on me to the best of my ability….. You folks must throw away some quality servicable cars if you actually practice what you preach….

Yes and no. The wiper blade comment was a bit flippant but when I was into bangernomics I’d buy cars for £200-400 and be happy if I got a year out of them, though most lasted longer than that. £1000 is a cheap car, and probably worth a bit of maintenance. At £250 more or less anything you can’t do yourself writes it off, and even then I don’t want to spend my limited time off dicking about under the bonnet of an old car.

Petrol cars generally cheaper as diesels are currently more desirable.

Is this still true at the bottom end of the market? General opinion amongst buyers seems to be in agreement these days, that older petrols are less costly to service than diesels.

Certainly some I have looked at, there has been no difference in price. But that may just be the ones I’ve looked at (and I don’t look at many diesels tbh). Honda Accord for example. Diesel is pretty much identical price to petrol, if not cheaper. Though to be fair, the diesels reportedly have common clutch and timing chain issues (which is what put me off, rather than anything diesel specific). Also petrols are fewer and far between, but that must be the same for most modern cars.

I would rather fix and service a known good banger and know it isnt going to fail on me to the best of my ability….. You folks must throw away some quality servicable cars if you actually practice what you preach….

Have to say, when I hear comments on the disposability of cheap motors, a small part of me dies. Each to their own I suppose. But having always driven cheap (think I’ve only ever twice paid more than £500), aside from the Fords (would rather not talk about them!) most would have been good for 100k miles easily. Each one I’ve usually given up on by the 50k mark purely because I’m bored. Buying a car, no matter how little it costs you, only to run it for a few thousand miles and lose the money you paid for it just doesn’t compute with me.

Im just in from changing the nearside spring and top mount on the wifes berlingo.

At a garage the cost would have written the car of on a % of value

As was cost me 40 quid and an evening ( fwiw i do enjoy working on my car. )