Average speed cameras work. Are they even on ?

It’s easier to see a motorbike doing 60mph than one doing 150mph isn’t it?

By the time you’ve ‘seen’ me at 150mph i’m already 1/2 a mile up the road 🙂

(crashing into a truck of course)

By the time you’ve ‘seen’ me at 150mph i’m already 1/2 a mile up the road

Yeah or wrapped around my wing!

I disagree. It’s a minor annoyance.

When most people drive correctly, i.e. over to the left except for over taking, idiots hogging the middle lane effectively reduce a 3 lane carriageway to a 2 lane. This moves everyone else in to the outside lane for overtaking causing unecessary congestion and all because they don’t have the mental capacity to be able to cope with moving out from the inside lane to overtake.

You may be having fun and in control zipping around, but when I look out of my junction, see a clear road (or look in my mirror and see a clear lane) then start my manoeuvre and suddenly a motorcyclist appears out of nowhere it’s bloody dangerous. I don’t want to be hit by a speeding motorcyclist, or car for that matter.

By speeding, you are making it even harder for other road users to see you and plan and react. I don’t think that’s something you want to be doing on a motorbike no?

I do of course see your point… However it rarely enters into my mind at my chosen times of speed of this sort of level. They’re not as common as some of my replies my imply… i don’t do 150mph all the time LOL. However…. i’m probably rarely at speeds you would deem acceptable if i’m on a rideout.

Fallibility is indeed the key, none of us are perfect 😉
It’s a risk assessment everytime you venture onto the roads, whatever mode of transport you’re using.
I (also) ride a motorcycle myself, and accept that sadly any life threatening ‘accident’ I may have (being particularly vunerable on two wheels) will most likely be someone else’s fault. Statistically.
Legislation will not keep me 100% safe. People make mistakes.

Fair point. I too boot my car (100mph) very rarely (done it about three times), usually on the M48 which is empty and has no junctions after the bridge. And it’s only for a minute too.

In Germany I took advantage of the lack of speed limits.. for a bit, then I realised how dangerous it was…

any life threatening ‘accident’ I may have (being particularly vunerable on two wheels) will most likely be someone else’s fault.

Yes, but the point is YOU can do things to mitigate OTHER PEOPLE’s mistakes and poor driving. You need to know this as a cyclist, I imagine it would also come in handy as a motorcyclist. Defensive riding/driving.

all it takes is one troll…..

In Germany I took advantage of the lack of speed limits.. for a bit, then I realised how dangerous it was…

You see, i’m a bit weird… I can’t recall the last time i took my car over 80mph (2.0 10plate Mondeo)…. it feels WAY more unstable. At 100mph the car just wants to go straight, handling is crap… this isn’t the mondeo, it’s just ‘cars’ well, day to day cars…

however doing 100mph on a motorbike you feel like you can get off and walk, you can corner, brake, control and ride without any of the same feelings as in cars.

Once you hit 150mph then the bike starts losing it’s handling… but still feels planted…. Once you hit 180mph (topped out Hayabusa/Gixer1000) then you’re relying on the road being straight as an arrow and the world goes by VERY quickly….

3 miles a minute LOL.

I can’t recall the last time i took my car over 80mph (2.0 10plate Mondeo)…. it feels WAY more unstable

Mine was fine at 100mph, only started to feel less stable at 110mph. As for going straight – this was open autobahn so not very windy.

however doing 100mph on a motorbike you feel like you can get off and walk

But if you hit something…

But if you hit something…

the IF factor is prbably part of the reason it’s fun…

HAve a word with yourself Dino.

I’ve had a fair few crashes racing though and even more on trackdays. The most spectacular of which was from 160mph braking too late and going over the bars in a rolling stoppie, the bike flipped, shattering my femur, hand and wrist, a couple of ribs later, a collar bone and plenty of bruising… it was an interesting day

Has Barry Sheene joined the forum?

Wasn’t there a thread about famous people on the forum recently?

I drop well below the limit for the first half then go over the limit for the rest

Ok, so you really do not get the point of these cameras then do you.

Ho hum – Member
Has Barry Sheene joined the forum?

Wasn’t there a thread about famous people on the forum recently?

I’m not Barry Sheene, i’m just an average bloke who loved doing trackdays and then went racing.

I guess I can’t bring myself to ‘do a weeksy’ on the public roads, ok on a track day, I’m too scared I get taken out.
Plus I wouldn’t want the points 😉
Touching 3 figures every now and again <ahem> can’t really be justified, so I won’t try, but 150 to 180’s a bit savage mate.

Sorry, going back a bit,

If you think speeding’s as safe as not speeding, then you are either stupid or lying to yourself.

Just as an aside, I watched a TV programme a couple of years back about motorists who habitually broke the speed limits. One thing they found was that when the speeders were forced to drive to the posted limits (for purposes of the documentary), one of two things happened. Either they got frustrated far more quickly and were more prone to making erratic decisions or succumbing to road rage; or, they were bored and their attention wandered away from driving, instead they were fiddling with the stereo or otherwise occupying their mind with other things, and started making mistakes.

Now, I’m not saying the solution there is to allow them to speed – rather, it highlights a training issue – and it was a short-term test with a small pool of volunteers rather than a properly conducted scientific study. Point is, it’s not as black and white as you’re asserting, it’s more complicated than that.

WHATEVER THE ACCIDENT… the CONSEQUENCES ARE WORSE IF YOU ARE SPEEDING

Shouty man is shouty.

You’re right of course, but that do you suggest? Should we drop the NSL to 20mph? Then when there’s a pile-up on the M6, it’ll be a nice gentle one. That sort of thing might’ve been viable once, but these days it’s a balance between limiting everyone’s speed for safety reasons whilst enabling them to make progress.

The problem is that fixed limits aren’t a particularly ideal method of regulating speed. On some 50mph roads it’s perfectly safe to do 70mph at times, on others it’s dangerous to do 30. Driving past a school at 4pm and at 4am carries very different risks.

Inappropriate speed is far more dangerous than breaking some arbitrary figure assigned to a road several decades ago. We either need variable speed limits or better driver training, or ideally both. If people were properly equipped to judge road conditions and drive accordingly, the roads would be a lot safer and we wouldn’t need these poxy little signs everywhere.

You could be a driving god, you can’t however see what’s coming around the next corner or predict what idiot drivers will do next.

Of course you can. You know what a blind bend looks like and adjust your speed and road position accordingly. You assume everyone else is an idiot and constantly roll through what they might do next. The roads aren’t ‘black box’ systems, there’s plenty of clues to be picked up on.

it’s the lane change manoeuvre that carries most of the risk. And you have to slow down to wait for a gap, speed up again, then someone piles up behind you and has to brake, etc etc.

That’s simply not how you change lanes efficiently. That’s the behaviour of someone who only ever sees the tail-lights in front of them, it’s a symptom of bad driving, not lane changing.

Touching 3 figures every now and again <ahem> can’t really be justified, so I won’t try, but 150 to 180’s a bit savage mate.

I don’t disagree and it’s been a while since i maxed out a bike…

However i do struggle not to see 150mph each and every time on a Japnese 1000 sportsbike. It’s just so sodding effortless to do and so quick and easy…. along with the fun factor of seeing your mates disappear in your mirrors.

Happily for you lot i no longer own a Japanese 1000, the wife does though so i use that a bit… I own a bike that struggle at more than 130 now due to being a sit-up type.

The most spectacular of which was from 160mph braking too late and going over the bars in a rolling stoppie, the bike flipped, shattering my femur, hand and wrist, a couple of ribs later, a collar bone and plenty of bruising… it was The most spectacular of which was from 160mph braking too late and going over the bars in a rolling stoppie, the bike flipped, shattering my femur, hand and wrist, a couple of ribs later, a collar bone and plenty of bruising… it was an interesting day

Im a story teller & the story must be true!
Looking forward to you in our Donor Unit soon!

Im a story teller & the story must be true!
Looking forward to you in our Donor Unit soon!

Complete Kn&b

It was a race, it was on a circuit with ambulances and medical staff etc. WTF else was i supposed to do in a race. I came down the back straight, missed my braking marker.. Well techincally i hit my braking marker right.. but 30 bikes in front of me braking meant i should have moved my braking marker LOL. The lessons you learn in your first race 🙂

That’s simply not how you change lanes efficiently. That’s the behaviour of someone who only ever sees the tail-lights in front of them, it’s a symptom of bad driving, not lane changing.

mol was describing why not changing lanes on exceptionally busy periods/stretches on Variable Speed Limit motorways (when VSLs are in place) is better than people constantly diving in and out of lanes.

Until folk drive perfectly, and it seems no matter how the driving test changes or what aids are added to cars, they’re going to do stupid things, we’re just going to have to put up with doing them more slowly. All this “inappropriate speed” stuff seems to be spoken by those who believe they have higher skillz levels than the rest of the populace. I’m as happy for the driving gods to be restricted as those with average skills.

I’m not Barry Sheene, i’m just an average bloke who loved doing trackdays and then went racing.

why not keep it to the track then instead of using the public highway?
if you have an outlet for your speed thrills that’s done in a place where you are less likely to injure yourself and others why ride like a tit on the public road?

i couldn’t give a toss if irresponsible motorcyclists wrap themselves round trees at 100mph (something they do quite frequently on the roads near my folks on the edge of the Romney marsh) as long as they don’t injure anyone else but surely it makes sense to do that with a gravel run off area and paramedics 30 seconds away?

why not keep it to the track then instead of using the public highway?
if you have an outlet for your speed thrills that’s done in a place where you are less likely to injure yourself and others why ride like a tit on the public road?

i couldn’t give a toss if irresponsible motorcyclists wrap themselves round trees at 100mph (something they do quite frequently on the roads near my folks on the edge of the Romney marsh) as long as they don’t injure anyone else but surely it makes sense to do that with a gravel run off area and paramedics 30 seconds away?

Agree, despite not racing i still do plenty of trackdays now. They do give you the time and place to unleash your inner child of course.

However, if i were to only do 70mph on a motorbike on the roads, i may as well throw in the towel…. and i really don’t wish to do that.

All this “inappropriate speed” stuff seems to be spoken by those who believe they have higher skillz levels than the rest of the populace.

Thing is, they probably do. That doesn’t mean they have (or believe they have) l33t skillz necessarily though, rather that the rest of the populace contains a very large number of clueless drivers. If you’re in any way a reasonably competent motorist, you’re almost certainly “above average”.

What irks me a little, with the temporary average speed camera zones on the motorways is that they are just so very very long when you compare them to the amount of active roadwork crews you see within that section. I’m no roadworks expert but I’m sure you could fit all active stages of preparation and construction into a couple of miles of road rather than slowing us down for an entire 15-20mile stretch.

“inappropriate speed” stuff

Remember – statisitics can prove anything. I once saw an HSE piechart where 16% of the accidents were attributed to being “struck by a stationary object” “Speed” is a factor in nearly all motoring accidents, but in terms of vehicle/vehicle collisions (not including motorbikes, obviouslly) everyday speeding isn’t that big a factor in terms of how serious an outcome will result.

Anybody in support of constant re-examination, once someone passes their test?

Say, every 10 years, you need to clock up at least 4hrs ‘instructor time’ , and re-take both the practical and theory tests?

Anybody in support of constant re-examination

Yeah, in theory.

In practice it’s a non-starter, we just don’t have anything like the resource to do it, and putting the infrastructure in place to cope with demand would be a big (expensive) undertaking.

I quite like the idea of making an advanced test mandatory within a couple of years of passing a regular test.

xiphon – Member
Anybody in support of constant re-examination, once someone passes their test?

Say, every 10 years, you need to clock up at least 4hrs ‘instructor time’ , and re-take both the practical and theory tests?

VERY much so… if it were govenment funded, i’d like it less than that… maybe every 2 years.

Although the downside of increasing the number of uninsured drivers sky rocketing would be a concern.

Anybody in support of constant re-examination

I’d rather pay for something proactive like this than something reactive like insurance…

Anybody in support of constant re-examination, once someone passes their test?

Totally. Wouldn’t need to be a a complete test, eye exam, reaction test and hazard perception would probably cover it

I still think if you go into a garage to buy certain cars it should result in the instantaneous revocation of your license on the grounds that you must actually not like driving.

statisitics can prove anything… “Speed” is a factor in nearly all motoring accidents

Quite. We’ve discussed this before but, you need to look at statistics like that critically. When they say “speed is a factor”, do they mean it was a causal factor or just that one of the parties happened to be breaking the limit?

If a party was breaking the limit in (for example) 70% of collisions, but 70% of drivers are speeding anyway, then isn’t speed statistically irrelevant here?

As Molgrips was explaining in capitals earlier, for a given collision speed can easily influence the severity of an incident. But if we’re actually trying to reduce the number of accidents, perhaps it’d be more effective to focus on things like people tailgating or trying to negotiate a roundabout with a phone pressed to their ear.

As an aside, I’m amazed that it’s still legal to smoke in cars. On what planet is holding something in your hand which is on fire whilst driving a great idea?

If that 70% of drivers weren’t speeding, there’d be less accidents.

… in your opinion.

<mod>
I’ve deleted a couple of the more aggressive comments from earlier in the thread. Please play nicely and refrain from hurling insults about.
</mod>

If that 70% of drivers weren’t speeding, there’d be less accidents.

… in your opinion.

Is the reverse true then?

M60 average cams catch 460 offenders a month.

*goes back thru thread to check for modding.*

All this “inappropriate speed” stuff seems to be spoken by those who believe they have higher skillz levels than the rest of the populace. I’m as happy for the driving gods to be restricted as those with average skills.

But why, all restricting people does is create frustration and increased stress and tension on the roads. The likely outcome if this is more accidents not less. I must admit myself that I’ve had more close calls when pottering along within the limit than when driving intentionally fast. The brain switches off when you’re stuck to an artificially reduced limit. Not ideal but true.

I’ve done lots of extra training since passing my test. AIM, police type fast road training, observational training and a couple of track based handling sessions. So I think my standard of driving is way above average. Sure I still make the odd mistake but who doesn’t. The extra training, awareness of hazards combined with a high performance car with good handling and good brakes means that often I can drive above the posted limits completely safely whilst at the same time taking accounts if any harass that might be present. For someone who’s not had this training then these hazards might seem like unexpected events, but in reality 99% are totally predictable.

I fail to see why if conditions allow then a speed limit can’t be safely exceeded. We shouldn’t all have to drive to the lowest common denominator. Often I will get flashed when passing a slower driver even though an overtake is safe an legal. I think that slower drivers with less skill seem to think that everyone else should be brought down to their level. I don’t mind people driving slow. It’s a good chance for an overtake, but just because you want to drive slow, don’t assume that everyone else does too.

I’d recommend the extra training to anyone. Similarly I’d recommend to anyone to get a fast car, then you will appreciate the extra level of road holding and safety that can be achieved.

Forgot to add, that I’d never dream if exceeding limits in a built up or residential area, too risky. I’m talking about clear roads, good weather and visibility, low traffic volume etc. I also have plenty if consideration for other road users, particularly cyclists (being one myself), horses etc. Many others I’ve seen just barge right past – well within the speed limit I might add.

[edited.]

I’d love to see the mess we’d be in if everybody that could, drove a “fast car”.