Attention Motorcyclists…

i thought i was a good driver, no points, no prangs in over 20 years of car/van driving.

then i learned to ride a motorbike and discovered just how much i didn’t know about motoring.

my points are:
a)don’t think you have nothing left to learn about driving/ riding

b)try to be more aware of the impact your driving behaviour has on others.

c) drive so that you can help others (especially, faster vehicles) make progress also.

d) concentrate, even in queues. the time when there is not much going on is the time when you should be most aware.

now who wouldn’t want to spank the tits off this just once?

What are we talking about?

now who wouldn’t want to spank the tits off this just once?

Only the once? Lightweight.

f I have the minimum braking distance in front of me then, basically, there is no gap to overtake and pull into. In this case the biker should wait to be noticed and let me drop back and create the gap.

You are on a wind-up aren’t you but just in case you are not, do you actually have a driving license? If you do, it must be a horrendous experience for you just nipping down the shops.

You are on a wind-up aren’t you but just in case you are not

why ?

I said minimum braking distance, that’s MINIMUM.

What gives you the right to take that margin away from me?

And notice that I said I would accept losing 25% of that gap whilst I adjusted, i.e someone not taking half the gap but putting themselves more at risk than me during the maneuver.

I assume that you are one of those drivers that just cuts across your bow when pulling back in after an overtake.

Why would you assume that?

Unless you’ve ridden bikes, you simply don’t understand the contemptuous ease with which you can get past anything with four wheels, unless you happen across a Veyron on a regular basis. So the question is, why on earth would any sane person sit there in a queue of badly-driven econoboxes all doing 48mph in a 60 zone, when you can do one or two overtakes and get past all ten of the trundling diesel Golfs.

OK, they’re not all diesel Golfs (quite often it’s a Hyundai, driver comatose at the wheel). But just because they don’t want to go any faster, why should everyone else wait? If you’re in a car you may well not have the acceleration or visibility to get past, but just ‘cos someone with a faster vehicle does have that power, why get all grumpy over it? I leave additional space if I look in my mirrors and see bikers, precisely because I drive a 3 tonne truck and can overtake very few people – so I assume that others will want to get past me and the mobile chicane blocking my way.

The idiots who flash past at 120mph leaving no margin for error are fools, obviously, but all of us, regardless of the number of wheels used, can agree with that.
Couldn’t agree more. I’m also totally with PP, Cougar, and TJ. What they are advocating is exactly what I do, almost instinctively. If I see a bike’s light coming up astern, then I pull slightly left, and lift fractionally off the throttle, giving a bit of clear space for the bike to slot into just left of the white line. He’s got a clear line of sight, and I’ve allowed myself a bit more space between me and whatever’s in front. I might even knock it down a gear, just in case I can see a clear window of opportunity down the left hand side and the turbo’s already spinning to give me the extra acceleration.
That’s nessessary as the 1.9TDi Skoda econobox takes a bit of extra welly to get past the Toyotas, Hyundais, Peugeots, etc, doing 38 in a 60, and narcolepsy in a moving vehicle is dangerous. 😈

then i learned to ride a motorbike and discovered just how much i didn’t know about motoring.

The one thing riding taught me was just how bobbins my observational skills had been in a car to date.

Why would you assume that?

because you seem to assume that it is your god given right to overtake and cut down my MINIMUM braking distance.

I was just thinking about saying something like “and if we then had an accident because you had taken away my minimum braking distance it would be my right to own you with bombers”, or something like that, and then I remembered that I do actually have a set of Z2 Bombers in the boot of my car right now…

basically everyone is talking about courtesy on the road and I have said that if I see a bike I will often try to accomodate an overtake, but if I am not shown a similar level of courtesy from another driver in not exposing me to extra risk by cutting in and taking my braking distance, then I am going to get pretty hacked off about it.

It appears that donorbikers are pretty effing awesome. Which is good, I don’t want any ordinary kidney, heart, liver, etc when I’m having one.

you seem to assume that it is your god given right to overtake and cut down my MINIMUM braking distance.

Do you have some sort of right foot mobility disability which prevents you from adjusting your speed slightly? Does letting someone past you actually affect you in any way whatsoever, other than righteous indignation? Are you actually held up, delayed in any way, otherwise put out?

Chill out, be a bit more tolerant of others, use your mirrors. Look up what ‘minimum’ means.

TurnerGuy

Have you read ANY of the posts re safe overtaking and adapting to conditions/circumstances while driving?

I am not advocating ‘cutting across bows’ or squeezing into small gaps and if you cannot accommodate someone in a faster vehicle overtaking you by the simple means of lifting your foot off the pedal for a second or two, then there is something seriously amiss with your driving and attitude.

To be honest, I wouldn’t expect anything other than general silliness from a biker, so I adjust my driving to accommodate them…it’s easier than getting angry with them. As I said previously, I’d rather someone else had to live with the sight of them flying towards some stationary object at 50 or 60 mph (or even an AWESOME 140mph) having left their mount.

As soon as they’re riding on my rear bumper, peeking out looking for that gap to overtake, I just want them out of my way as soon as possible.

Oh, oh, oh…funny one a couple of weeks ago. I’d been saving this up for STW. There was a bunch of them, one of whom was taking it upon himself to berate a few drivers for something (I couldn’t tell what, but from some of the responses on this thread, there appears to be a lot they get sandy-vaginitis about) – all the berating was happening on approach to a roundabout, whereupon, he was so busy berating somebody, that he bumped into one of his gaily leather coloured mateys who had stopped. Thankfully, it was just at low speed, so nobody was hurt – did wind my window down so he might hear me laughing though. But he didn’t 🙁

OK, slightly badly worded on my part, sorry. What I really ment was that KNOWING the layout of the road as someone else said has nothing to do with it. You dont need to know in advance. Not necessary.
If I’m turning left or right at the end it’s no problem I’ll spot a gap at some point and move over. Can’t ever remember getting stuck in the wrong place TBH. But if I did I’d simply carry on the wrong way and sort it put later by turning round or taking a different route.
You’re making an issue here where none actually exists.

That’s fair enough. My point was I see a lot of people burn down the outside of a line of completely stationary line of traffic then get to the front where they’re blocked by an island for a pedestrian crossing or something so they can’t just get to the front to beat the traffic away when lights change. And when they get there they steer their bike in front of someone at 45 degrees and poke the front wheel in so the driver has to let them in.
I, like you, would just carry on in the wrong way or wait if I had to but I think we’d be in the minority.
You may not see this happen too often but I seem to, perhaps it’s from driving in London too often.

Sure. But that sort of random nobbery is a different situation to what we’re discussing.

There are many idiots on 2 and 4 wheels and even some on any number of other wheels from 3 upwards (to include all trucks) The difference now is in consequences. Cars are now so safe in comparison with even 10 years ago and bikes are so fast.

Overtaking doesn’t bother me as hopefully I am aware of them coming up behind me and can adjust my speed. What bothers me is the tail end Charlie who is so desperate not to lose his mates that he forces into a space that might hold 2 bikes but not his 3rd one. He is the dangerous 1.

Saw a close one with 4 guys filtering up to a 4 way set of traffic lights. They headed up the opposite dual carriageway to filter to the front and nearly got collected by somebody pulling out to overtake a slower car as he turned left onto the dual carriageway. Had he not pulled back in he would have hit al 4 of them. Big dent and poss write off for him but likely broken bones at least for the bikers. Thing was I could see it unfolding as it was an unsafe manoeuvre to be pulling.

Have sat with biker till ambulance arrived after silly bit in a 4×4 took him out on a roundabout. Broken both wrists and just missed the sign with his head.

I would love the speed of a bike but know I don’t fancy the consequences of it going wrong though.

There are many idiots on 2 and 4 wheels.

No arguments here.

Have you read ANY of the posts re safe overtaking and adapting to conditions/circumstances while driving?

reading posts whilst driving is something that I leave to the youngsters…

I am not advocating ‘cutting across bows’ or squeezing into small gaps and if you cannot accommodate someone in a faster vehicle overtaking you by the simple means of lifting your foot off the pedal for a second or two, then there is something seriously amiss with your driving and attitude.

I have already said that I am fine with someone overtaking me where 1) I have anticipated the move and increased the gap in front of me ready for them to pull into, or 2) they pull into the gap but don’t halve it (if it is a minimum gap) but momentarily take the larger share of the risk whilst I make the adjustment.

I do not see why I (and any family in the car) have to be exposed to higher levels of risk just to accommodate whoever is overtaking.

I take it that you don’t actually drive a car much nowadays.

It is a continual occurrence on a mway that people pull in front of you leaving only 30% of the gap that was there, even when I might have 10 minimum gaps to the car that previously was in front of me, even when I am in the freakin’ slow lane. Or they will pull in front of me last minute to exit the mway, as I am, even though there is no-one behind and I am not exactly dawdling.

It beggars belief.

I don’t think there is much wrong with my attitude – I let my far share of cars out at junctions, unless they are a BMW (I drive an alfa so letting one out would be plain wrong), I keep left on the mway when possible and I am not imminently about to overtake someone, I give way to trucks if they want to change lanes, etc.

I cannot actually remember any time where I have been angered by a bike overtaking me – perhaps because I have always anticipated it or just because it is a bike – although bikes weaving from lane to lane and undertaking will hack me off.

Look up what ‘minimum’ means

what the heck does that mean – it sounds like something from the twenty-twelve series – similar to “There are lots of solutions – the trick is finding one that works”.

bruk – Member
There are many idiots on 2 and 4 wheels.

I don’t see why the Reliant Robin owners are getting off with it!

To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of ignorance.  A. Bronson Alcott

what the heck does that mean

Well, if you looked it up as I suggested, you’d know.

“Minimum” means the smallest, it’s not an absolute. Larger values are also acceptable.

I have already said that I am fine with someone overtaking me where 1) I have anticipated the move

So you have a problem when you fail to anticipate it? There’s an obvious solution to that.

I don’t think there is much wrong with my attitude – I let my far share of cars out at junctions, unless they are a BMW

Then I’d respectfully disagree. (I’m actually assuming you’re joking here)

I have a theory that many BMW drivers drive the way they do because of exactly this attitude; it leaves them no other choice. I had a Merc for a while, and found that the only way to make progress was to drive to the stereotype because no-one ever gives you a break or lets you out, ever. Indicating just tips people off so they can get the drop on you and block you in.

If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the precipitate. Or something.

A. Bronson Alcott

Did he ride a bike or drive a car? It’s important.

diesel alfa right?
not a real alfa
not a real alfa driver

Fixed it for you Druidh.

Seen many daft overtakes on the A9 from cars as well. Hedge-hopping we call it as they try and overtake 2 or 3 cars to get closer to the back of the ruddy caravan straining behind some underpowered estate. Best plan sit back wait for the dual carriageway and relax. Think of the ride/climb ahead instead.

Bikes can overtake far quicker and pick off strings of cars. Still can’t stop that quickly though and that can cause hem problems.

Your average bike will out-brake your average car, pilot wits notwithstanding.

I take it that you don’t actually drive a car much nowadays.

It depends what you call ‘much’?

Probably around 8k miles in private car, 3-4k on motorbike and around 20k in ‘company car’.

FWIW I see much worse from car drivers than those on motorbikes on a daily basis for the simple reason that, generally speaking, bike riders are considerably more aware of conditions and are much better at reading the road than those who have only ever driven a car.

Have you read ANY of the posts re safe overtaking and adapting to conditions/circumstances while driving?

reading posts whilst driving is something that I leave to the youngsters…

Ahh so that’s why so many old folk get lost on the roads regardless of all the sign posts 😆

druidh – Member

bruk – Member
There are many idiots on 2 and 4 wheels.

I don’t see why the Reliant Robin owners are getting off with it!

Or these f888ers

Well here’s my view on it. If Coffeeking and Co were to get on the back of the motorbike of the bikesafe instructor we have been out with,he would have a hairy fit. If said police officer was out in plain clothes/bike or car and witnessed me filtering between cars,that have a two second gap between them,while they are driving under the speed limit.. I can tell you now he would be praising me for doing so. As much as you might think that he would probably want to pull me over for a word,or a fine,you have got it all wrong*

*going by the way I described the scenario.

Cougar – Member
Your average bike will out-brake your average car, pilot wits notwithstanding.

I think you will find that’s not true.

Will I?

I have just ridden 132 miles the long way home from work via Achnasheen,Coulags,Eilan donan castle and up through Glenshiel. I passed 4 cars in total between 7pm and 9.30pm

Move up here, you rarely get cars on the road!

Mmm disagree about braking distances, on perfect dry roads with a great rider on board possibly close but on standard rubbish roads not a chance!

Yes, cars are quicker at braking simply because they brake with two tyres rather than one, and they’re not limited by the vehicle trying to flip over.

I’ve got some figures from the 27th April 2004 Autocar magazine:

Suzuki GSX-R 1000: 100mph – 0 in 5.63 seconds
Lotus Elise 111R – 4.09 seconds
Peugeot 206 Gti 180 – 4.39 seconds
Porsche 911 GT3 – 4.00 seconds (interestingly, the raw physics suggests that a 911 obtains a 50:50 weight distribution whilst braking fully).

The bike is beaten by everything, including a hot hatch. I’m fairly confident a standard hatch would also beat the bike.

So, the 911 is 1.63 seconds quicker under braking from 100-0. Call that about a second from a typical track top speed to a typical track cornering speed, and it can be seen why bikes often fail to live up to the lap times you’d expect round a race track, especially tight race tracks with lots of braking involved.

Actually never seen a dangerous overtake by a unicyclist so they are excluded. 😀

Cool, I sit corrected. Thanks for the info.

No worries Cougar.

Live and most importantly let live. Respect other road users and try to ignore the tossers.

Cougar; I had a Merc for a while, and found that the only way to make progress was to drive to the stereotype because no-one ever gives you a break or lets you out, ever

Very true. I drive a massive fat-cat businessman’s Volvo S80D (I got it cheap!). It’s GOLD and has leather seats and everything. No bugger will let me out at junctions – many seem to go out of their way to impede my progress.

Never had any such problems in my Focus estate, Honda Accord or my Portuguese army jeep (the latter also never, ever got ticketed, no matter where I parked it).

It does go both ways though. If I borrow my wife’s tiny Fiat Uno, everyone pulls out in front of me and cuts me up.

Cars brake with 4,motorbikes with 2.

Oh and Martinxyz – yes the Highlands are fantastic when the road’s quiet, but an undiluted nightmare for most of the Summer IME. It just takes one tourist in a hired car to do 20 round all the corners (90% of the road) and then put the pedal to the metal on the rare straights to turn your journey into a frustrating disaster.

Why do they do this? I have tried to rationalise it and I wonder if they feel guilty that they are going so slowly and holding up a queue of traffic, so burn rubber the moment they feel it’s safe to do so, thus preventing safe overtaking?

And I can’t even begin to talk about singletrack roads and passing places – despite the abundant signage, the ‘normal’ practices just vanish from March to September.