Attention Motorcyclists…

Have you considered leaving a larger braking distance between yourself and the vehicle in front? That way bikes can filter past and be on their way

Why should I leave a massive gap, when I have enough room to absorb fluctuations in traffic flow already? Just so that other road users can drive like idiots?

Understood. But I call it blinkered. Its lack of understanding not lack of consideration.

No lack of understanding here my friend. I may not be a regular motorcyclist but do not mistake that for someone who is unable to view things from the other foot, as it were.

Im’ not sure why you think that’s any different?

The difference in performance and vision. Thats the bit you do not understand.

I filter ALL THE TIME. At every single available safe opportunity, without any hesitation whatsoever. The layout of the road has absolutely bugger all to do with it. If there’s cars, and a safe gap, I’m in it. Filtering is at least 1/3 of the reason I got into motorcycling in the first place. Why do you even need to know what the junction looks like? You just don’t. Look as far ahead as you can see at ALL times and make a decision based on that. If you can’t get to the front, stop before you get there. If the traffic starts to move off, look for a gap opening up and slide into it (and wave or nod nicely if anyone lets you in) All it takes is practice. And not much at that.
As TJ will agree, you never need to ‘know the road’ if you know what you’re doing. It makes no difference.

How can you say the layout of the road has nothing to do with whether or not you filter?
What if you get to the front and realise you need to turn left? Or if you get to the front and there’s another bike already at the front you’ll have to force your way into a line of queuing traffic. There are loads of situations where you shouldn’t be filtering and you see bikes jamming their way in at the front of queues every day stopping traffic while they work their way back in.
9 times out of 10 you can filter all the way to the front and you’ll be the only bike there and you can get away before all the other traffic. The other 1 in 10 you’ll be stuck at the side of the road with nowhere to go and most of the time riders seem to force their way in.

Understood. But I call it blinkered. Its lack of understanding not lack of consideration.

I understand that, but then again you think it’s ok to tell people to filter through traffic when a) they don’t want to and b) it’s none of your business. 😉

Thats the bit you do not understand.

Classic. 😀

See this is what shows me you don’t understand. It’s pointless (but entertaining) arguing with you because you are so blinkered. Get out on a bike with a good safe rider for a while. Do it. Try and open your mind and learn.

I see, so my disagreeing with your point means I don’t understand? It can’t be that I do understand and just have a different opinion based on the same evidence you see? You have an odd way of viewing these discussions.

The difference in performance and vision. Thats the bit you do not understand.

Again, the bikes performance and vision have sweet FA to do with whether or not you put me in danger if you cut in early. In fact it’s a clear indication of the superiority complex many motorcyclists seem to have, yet at the same time clear indication of why such people don’t think about anyone but themselves. You might be able to react and brake because you can see over the car in front. I won’t have any gap to react to your braking, until I’ve braked and re-gained the safe distance you took away.

Get out on a bike with a good safe rider for a while.

Do you know any? 😆

Do you not get bored? Can you not form a cogent argument, leaving you with only platitudes to fill the void?

Nope. I’ll be out there riding my bike. I’ll leave formation of cogent argument for things that matter, not arguing with an internet warrior.

Going back to page one; the CG125 was designed for Asia to carry an average of 4 people 😯

Nope. I’ll be out there riding my bike. I’ll leave formation of cogent argument for things that matter, not arguing with an internet warrior.

And there we go, a hat-trick. 😆

Enjoy the ride!

Why should I leave a massive gap, when I have enough room to absorb fluctuations in traffic flow already?

Because

I’m never miffed if someone filters in in front of me where there’s space.

Why wouldn’t you drive in a manner which ensures you never get miffed?

I’ve been thinking about this, and I’m finding it difficult to visualise how you’re leaving a large enough space to absorb traffic fluctuations whilst still keeping sufficient braking distance, yet so small that a bike can’t fit in without cutting you up. I appreciate that they’re unacceptably decreasing your braking distance (for the few seconds they’re there before moving on) but “cutting up” implies they’re squeezing into a small gap which seems at odds with your description.

I’ve been thinking about this, and I’m finding it difficult to visualise how you’re leaving a large enough space to absorb traffic fluctuations whilst still keeping sufficient braking distance, yet so small that a bike can’t fit in without cutting you up. I appreciate that they’re unacceptably decreasing your braking distance (for the few seconds they’re there before moving on) but “cutting up” implies they’re squeezing into a small gap which seems at odds with your description.

I accept a momentary slight shortening of my braking distance when absorbing traffic fluctuations, it’s never more than a couple of metres as it’s fairly easy to speed match. Plonk a bike in there at the half-way point and THEY need their stopping distance and I need mine, so it’s not just the length of the bike or a few metres, but the added stopping distance they then slow down to aquire too. (i.e. for the sake of argument, two stopping distances, which at 50 as calculated earlier could be another 50 yards)

Why wouldn’t you drive in a manner which ensures you never get miffed?

I’d get miffed at having to drive to accomodate other people’s miff-inducing driving! Why can’t people just drive sensibly, instead of forcing me to either drive with huge gaps or make gaps for them?

Sure. But that’s not “cutting you up,” is it.

Sure. But that’s not “cutting you up,” is it.

Forcing me to brake to get my stopping distance back isn’t cutting me up?

Riddle me this. You’re cruising down the motorway at 70, inside lane, someone comes past you and pulls in a couple of car lengths ahead of you waiting for the next exit. Assuming you sensibly brake to increase your stoppign distance do you a) congratulate him on his making progress despite forcing you to brake or b)raise an eyebrow at his leaving overtaking and pulling in to the last minute? I think I’m b).

I’d get miffed at having to drive to accomodate other people’s miff-inducing driving! Why can’t people just drive sensibly, instead of forcing me to either drive with huge gaps or make gaps for them?

Unfortunately when on a bike I will jump into these spaces and overtake quickly, but I wouldn’t dream of having a pop at you because you consider me inconsiderate. I would apologise, go on my merry way and change nothing because I’m a __________ . 😈

Coffeeking

I really REALLY don’t follow your logic or argument.

It has been questioned earlier but are you really saying that no-one is allowed to overtake you unless you have had the foresight, immediately prior to being overtaken, to double the gap between you and the vehicle in front?

Surely that would cause you more angst than simply dropping back a bit once a bike or car has gone safely past. After all, especially with a motorbike, it is likely to be past the car in front quite quickly anyway.

Unfortunately when on a bike I will jump into these spaces and overtake quickly, but I wouldn’t dream of having a pop at you because you consider me inconsiderate. I would apologise, go on my merry way and change nothing because I’m a __________ .

And I’d respect you for at least admitting it! 😆

It has been questioned earlier but are you really saying that no-one is allowed to overtake you unless you have had the foresight, immediately prior to being overtaken, to double the gap between you and the vehicle in front?

I’m not saying anyone isn’t allowed to do anything. I’m just saying it’s inconsiderate and dangerous to overtake where there isn’t sufficient space to pull in without forcing people to brake. It’s baffling me that people are arguing the contrary.

Surely that would cause you more angst than simply dropping back a bit once a bike or car has gone safely past. After all, especially with a motorbike, it is likely to be past the car in front quite quickly anyway.

Don’t mistake my consistent defense of my point as angst or obsessive argument. I just don’t change my opinion without reasonable evidence to the contrary, none of which has been presented. So far all that I see having been presented (apart from the mis-understanding folk who jumped in part way without reading fully) is bikers saying “you might as well drop back when I’ve forced you to, it’s easy enough” and “Bikes and bikers are far superior, therefore my cutting in in front of you doesn’t matter because we’re safe”. Paraphrased, of course.

If I can’t (or don’t want to) overtake the vehicle in front I’ll often leave a large space for the faster/more motivated drivers.

What I have noticed recently is that motorcyclists are less likely to acknowledge when I pull over to the left to let them squeeze past, easing their overtake. When I was riding motorbikes, that sort of behaviour was both welcomed and thanked.

I’d get miffed at having to drive to accomodate other people’s miff-inducing driving! Why can’t people just drive sensibly, instead of forcing me to either drive with huge gaps or make gaps for them?

Interesting that you’re arguing for consideration. Consider, who’s most inconvenienced by other road users’ inconsiderate driving?

1) The car driver who has to momentarily slow down slightly to allow a bike to pass safely before returning to his original position.

2) The bike stuck behind traffic that he could otherwise easily pass and be on his way but for the car in front being too close to the next one.

I’m not arguing in favour of driving / riding like a hooligan, I’m just struggling to understand why this is such an issue for you. It seems remarkably petty.

If I can’t (or don’t want to) overtake the vehicle in front I’ll often leave a large space for the faster/more motivated drivers.

Snap, as said about two pages ago 🙂

What I have noticed recently is that motorcyclists are less likely to acknowledge when I pull over to the left to let them squeeze past, easing their overtake. When I was riding motorbikes, that sort of behaviour was both welcomed and thanked.

Can’t say I’ve noticed that. And car drivers are almost universally crap at saying thanks anyway, at least a smiley wave from the occasional bike is somehow more pleasing lol.

And I’d respect you for at least admitting it!

This is the whole point, is it not?

I’m just saying it’s inconsiderate and dangerous to overtake where there isn’t sufficient space to pull in without forcing people to brake. It’s baffling me that people are arguing the contrary.

I’m trying to remember which college did the study that said that a large proportion of traffic jams on motorways were caused by a single car braking, the following car brakes a bit harder, the following harder still etc until we have stationary traffic that the motorcyle now has to get through because they can.All because one road user was so inconsiderate that another road user had to brake.
Think about it.

I’m not saying anyone isn’t allowed to do anything. I’m just saying it’s inconsiderate and dangerous to overtake where there isn’t sufficient space to pull in without forcing people to brake

I do quite a lot of driving and riding in a ‘making progress’ mode and if I followed your ‘advice’ it would be quite a challenge to overtake anyone on certain roads.

I think you are being a bit over-zealous on this one and don’t appear to know the difference between braking and lifting your foot off the accelerator for a few moments in order to safely restore the gap in which you feel safe. I would also question that by braking immediately to restore the gap you are probably far more likely to cause an accident by forcing cars behind you to also brake.

Interesting that you’re arguing for consideration. Consider, who’s most inconvenienced by other road users’ inconsiderate driving?

1) The car driver who has to momentarily slow down slightly to allow a bike to pass safely before returning to his original position.

2) The bike stuck behind traffic that he could otherwise easily pass and be on his way but for the car in front being too close to the next one.

I’m not arguing in favour of driving / riding like a hooligan, I’m just struggling to understand why this is such an issue for you. It seems remarkably petty.

I’m not arguing about being slowed, I’m arguing about having my safety compromised for someone elses progress. I don’t feel that’s petty, do you?

I do quite a lot of driving and riding in a ‘making progress’ mode and if I followed your ‘advice’ it would be quite a challenge to overtake anyone on certain roads.

We all find it a bit of a challenge to make progress on some roads, be it a car or a bike. Again, what you’re saying is you’ll compromise basic safety to make progress faster.

I think you are being a bit over-zealous on this one and don’t appear to know the difference between braking and lifting your foot off the accelerator for a few moments in order to safely restore the gap which you feel safe.

That’s your opinion, next time I’ll let off the throttle rather than dabbing the brake lightly and hope that in the 15 seconds or so it takes for me to drop back to a safe distance you don’t come acropper and end up as paste under my wheels. Should I make that assumption of all bikers? Someone inform the lawmakers that all bikers are willing to turn the laws around and not blame cars who run into the back of them. If you want to pull in on the bumper of the car in front of me, knock yourself out – I won’t complain.

I would also question that by braking immediately to restore the gap you are probably far more likely to cause an accident by forcing cars behind you to also brake.

That could be argued. So why are you forcing me to make sudden changes to rectify my lack of stoppign distance? See where we are going here?

Only if it actually was in any significant degree – it isn’t.

I think you are being a bit over-zealous on this one

no, I think it is you that is wrong here – it is fine to overtake and then pull it as long as it is your braking distance that is compromised, not the guy you have just overtaken.

If you overtook me and pulled in, cutting my braking distance short, and then something happened and I had to brake and ended up hitting you then it would be seen as my fault for not leaving enough gap – which is clearly not the case.

I doubt that you would ‘fess up to the insurance either to accept liability. If you would then I would have thought that you would be in the minority.

Only if it actually was in any significant degree – it isn’t.

how do you know it isn’t – pray?

If he had to brake to keep safe distance then it was significant.

Forcing me to brake to get my stopping distance back isn’t cutting me up?

Well, yes, it is, but is that what we’re talking about? You’re pootling along minding your own business, with plenty of braking distance between yourself and the car in front, a bike overtakes and slots in front of you, and you have to hit the middle pedal? Really?

Either you’re changing what you’re describing, I’m totally misunderstanding you, or you need to work on your observation.

Riddle me this. You’re cruising down the motorway at 70, inside lane, someone comes past you and pulls in a couple of car lengths ahead of you waiting for the next exit. Assuming you sensibly brake to increase your stoppign distance do you a) congratulate him on his making progress despite forcing you to brake or b)raise an eyebrow at his leaving overtaking and pulling in to the last minute? I think I’m b).

I’d think b) of course, but this seems to be an entirely different example all of a sudden.

If you overtook me and pulled in, cutting my braking distance short, and then something happened and I had to brake and ended up hitting you then it would be seen as my fault for not leaving enough gap – which is clearly not the case.

How about anticipating the manoeuvre and start dropping back as you are being overtaken by a faster vehicle? That is common road sense. There are things on cars called mirrors and if you use them it is fairly easy to anticipate and take appropriate action to ensure both your own and other road users safety.

How about anticipating the manoeuvre and start dropping back as you are being overtaken by a faster vehicle? That is common road sense.

Ah, but that’s inconvenient remember.

How about anticipating the manoeuvre and start dropping back as you are being overtaken by a faster vehicle?

How about chilling out and waiting until you can overtake, all the vehicles that are slowing you down, in one go?

Ah, but that’s inconvenient remember.

Ah yes I forgot 😳 😆

How about chilling out and waiting until you can overtake, all the vehicles that are slowing you down, in one go?

Much safer DS, I shall try that next time I’m on the A68 stuck behind 2 camper vans, a truck and Doris and Fred out for a Sunday drive and attached to each others bumpers by an elastic band 😉

How about anticipating the manoeuvre and start dropping back as you are being overtaken by a faster vehicle? That is common road sense. There are things on cars called mirrors and if you use them it is fairly easy to anticipate and take appropriate action to ensure both your own and other road users safety.

you must be taking the p1ss now…

Much safer DS, I shall try that next time I’m on the A68 stuck behind 2 camper vans, a truck and Doris and Fred out for a Sunday drive and attached to each others bumpers by an elastic band

That’s most considerate and the very least I expect, nay, demand that you do and if you have problems understanding this, be sure that I’ll start a thread on the topic. 😉

How about anticipating the manoeuvre and start dropping back as you are being overtaken by a faster vehicle? That is common road sense.

If something wants to overtake me, it’s fine, I can live with it, and my ego normally recovers after a good sing-song to the radio. I do tend to maintain my road speed though, as the manoeuvre is the overtaker’s – it’s up to him to get past. If he’s overtaking, then changes his mind and goes to pull back in, and in the meantime I’m displaying “common sense” by slowing down too, then we’re a both a fookayed aren’t we?

Having said that, if a donorbike comes up behind me, I’ll normally wander to the left so he can get past – if he gives me a little wave of his nicely power-rangered up little bootie, then I give him a smile, a cheery wave and a wink if I think he might fancy me. Everyone’s happy, and someone else can live with the consequences of scraping him up – I’d rather not thanks.

We all have to share the tarmac, we just need to chill out a bit. 🙂

there are countless dozens of idiots on crotch rockets who are not.

If you want to be taken seriously in a debate with motorcyclists, using the term ‘crotch rocket’ will win you no points. It just makes you sound like a Daily Mail reader.

Unless you’ve ridden bikes, you simply don’t understand the contemptuous ease with which you can get past anything with four wheels, unless you happen across a Veyron on a regular basis. So the question is, why on earth would any sane person sit there in a queue of badly-driven econoboxes all doing 48mph in a 60 zone, when you can do one or two overtakes and get past all ten of the trundling diesel Golfs.

OK, they’re not all diesel Golfs (quite often it’s a Hyundai, driver comatose at the wheel). But just because they don’t want to go any faster, why should everyone else wait? If you’re in a car you may well not have the acceleration or visibility to get past, but just ‘cos someone with a faster vehicle does have that power, why get all grumpy over it? I leave additional space if I look in my mirrors and see bikers, precisely because I drive a 3 tonne truck and can overtake very few people – so I assume that others will want to get past me and the mobile chicane blocking my way.

The idiots who flash past at 120mph leaving no margin for error are fools, obviously, but all of us, regardless of the number of wheels used, can agree with that.

you must be taking the p1ss now…

Which part?

nickf, you start with this little preach:

If you want to be taken seriously in a debate with motorcyclists, using the term ‘crotch rocket’ will win you no points. It just makes you sound like a Daily Mail reader.

Then your next paragraph mentions “contemptuous ease”; then there’s “badly driven econoboxes”, whatever TF, “econobox” is supposed to mean. Then there’s the implied insult of drivers of various models, etc. etc. A bit “Top Gear” I’d say.

Which part?

that I have to keep an eye out in case you are going to overtake me – I don’t remember this being taught in the highway code.

Please show me the section.

I rather think that if you passed me and caused me to brake because of your driving, it would be you that failed your driving test, not me.

I remember trying my best not to overtake when doing my driving test. 🙂

that I have to keep an eye out in case you are going to overtake me – I don’t remember this being taught in the highway code.

I really don’t think there is any point in answering someone who doesn’t appear to know what mirrors are for 🙄