Armstrong, filthy hatefull scumbag of a man.

a proper cycling hero dullard, in my eyes.

FTFY.

Can’t knock the guy’s cycling credentials, but my word he was boring.

Though CB reportedly couldn’t take the drugs which would have been good for his health because they were banned – I’m not sure it’s that simple.

(not trying to have an argument over this in case it comes across that way)

Completely agree aracer and it isn’t black and white. I guess the example you make could be similar to a CT scan for example being “bad” for you healthy and carrying risks without clinical indications to do so but also very helpful for diagnosing certain medical issues. The metaphor falls down because X-rays aren’t performance enhancing (out of the super hero universe 😀 ) but you get the point.

(not trying to have an argument over this in case it comes across that way)

Doesn’t come across that way 😀 One of the reasons I find pro cycling so fascinating is that these types of discussions are a good reflection of wider society… plus the racing is pretty damn entertaining 😀

So how many people have taken creatine? Surely there must be some on here.

Only if they added it to pastry related products, real ales, coffee or real stoves will folk on here have done it

😆

what about creatine, what about using recovery drinks, where exactly is that line?

The line is the clearly defined UCI regulations on performance enhancing drugs and other treatments. There is no ambiguity. If it’s not on the list, it’s not cheating. The authorities are continually reviewing and amending the regs as new things are identified.
I haven’t checked current regs, but I don’t think creatine has ever been banned.

But we were discussing:

Totally agree. I don’t think it is as blatant now but they are definitely still making the most of the areas of “grey”. As I wrote above, Kittel has been very open as recently as last year about taking part in trials experimenting with blood manipulation that wasn’t banned at the time. Didn’t even cause a stir in the media or cycling community as no rules were broken. Morals don’t seem to come in to it which is the real issue you can’t fix easily
[/quote]

He’s called Lancelot ffs. Alarm bells should have been ringing from birth.

Do those of you who follow road cycling think the sport is still riddled with doping?

No more riddled than any other sport, i.e. there’s a few bad eggs, but the average is probably clean. The tour is considerably slower than it was 10 years ago!

Though CB reportedly couldn’t take the drugs which would have been good for his health because they were banned – I’m not sure it’s that simple.

Sounds more like an internet fact than a real one, if it’s perscribed by a Dr then you get a theraputic use exemption (TUE), Messsi has one for HGH which is taking the piss a little bit (and nearly the whole pelaton apparently has them for asthma inhalers, bless their little cotton socks).

A lot of people on this thread seem to be taking the position that it was LA’s character rather than the cheating that the issue.

I think that misses the point.

LA was clearly an exceptional individual. Driven, intelligent, articulate and utterly ruthless but also charismatic and persuasive. Given these qualities he could have chosen another path. He could have been the one speaking out about doping and people might have listened. He could have personally changed cycling for the better.

But he chose to win at all costs instead.

richmtb – Member

He could have been the one speaking out about doping and people might have listened. He could have personally changed cycling for the better.

The only reason people paid him any heed was because he was winning. He’d probably have been yet another midpack rider nobody remembers if he’d not doped.

Sounds more like an internet fact than a real one, if it’s perscribed by a Dr then you get a theraputic use exemption (TUE)[/quote]

Apparently not in this case. Of course this is a link to another bit of the internet, so that presumably makes this an internet fact
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/story/0,3604,380917,00.html

Yawn, more hate for the already ruined Armstrong, meanwhile lets keep repeating the legends of Pantani, Merckx, Coppi, Simpson etc etc as if they are better.

Sorry fella, but they are better than armstrong.
He is an utter c*** simply because he attempted to destroy the lives of anyone who suggested something wasn’t right.
That to me makes him one of the worst.
The cheating is a totally different thing and yeah as people have said a lot were doing it.

My issue is that Armstrong is ruined, there is no benefit to getting angry at him, its done, the federal case will bury him financially and he has no reputation beyond that of a cheat. Meanwhile Merckx has his picture on every bike cafe wall and Pantani is portrayed as some tragic rock star. You can’t selectively ruin cheats just because one was mean, I reckon St Eddy would get pretty nasty if journalists started asking him how often he used and if he ever raced clean, of course he is too well connected and ‘special’ to attack even though he was the one who introduced Armstrong to Ferrari.

Yeah agreed a lot of them cheated.
Maitre Jacques admitted that they took drugs most of the time.
No one is calling anyone a saint. But armstrong took the destruction of all foes to another level. Look at what happened to Simeoni, all he did was tell the truth about ferrari.
So we have:
Lemond, O’reilly, Walsh, Kimmage, The Andreu’s, Simeoni etc all of whom he went out of his way to destroy when they expressed doubts.
Of all of those Lemond is the most shocking as all he did was state that if armstrong wasn’t clean, it would be the greatest fraud. And as a result of that Armstrong destroyed his business, revealed that Lemond had been abused by his uncle, said he was a drunk and drug addict.

Sorry but in my book he hasn’t been shamed enough. All of those you listed did not do anything like the shameful attempts to destroy others lives as armstrong did.

And BTW i’m not angry at him. I just think karma by way of the whistleblower suit is going to screw him a treat.

But he’s called Lancelot!

Do those of you who follow road cycling think the sport is still riddled with doping?

Riddled? No

Are there riders taking banned substances (with the implicit connivance or knowledge of people/teams that should know better)? Undoubtedly

there is no benefit to getting angry at him, its done, the federal case will bury him financially and he has no reputation beyond that of a cheat.

As other’s have said, and I agree with, it’s not merely the cheating, it’s the contempt with which he treated everyone around him whether they were friends team-mates, rivals, people who dared question. If ever there was a candidate for being cast alone to a desert island, it is surely this man.