Are UK riders moving further away from US/Euro riding trends?

A bit OT but still relevent.

When I lived over in Germany in the late 90’s I met up with a few m/c’s and rode regularly with them over the summer/autumn. And then found that they all parked up their m/c’s for winter (as they only had ‘term-time’ insurance). They were amazed that I kept mine insured and did in fact ride it, even if only now-and-again.

One of them worked for BMW, and it dawned on him why the vast majority of UK owners specified heated grips…

And as said by someone else, my continental friends ski/snowboard in winter, or road/CX.

Also took a German to Afan, he ran up the steep uphills – and then was surprised that we rode the downhills…, at home his riding was more about k’s and meters-ascended – mostly fireroad.

I’ve just found some belly button fluff. Anyone else?

GW – Member
epi – …it seems clear you don’t seem to understand that to get the best handling out of them, off road bicycles are not ridden in the same way as motorbikes!! On an mtb the fastest most stable way through a rock garden has very little to do with being able to turn your bars quickly but if you knew what you were talking about you’d already know that…

Mmm, I think you’ve convinced me. I’ll forget all the practical experimentation I have done, and recognise that my experience riding a trials bike is worthless. Irving and Foale are now fools in my eyes.

Hear me, hear me! I recant, small wheels are better!

Now off to take my Dahon around the ‘Puffer course.

It’s got 20″ wheels so with the superior insight I have gained from your knowledge that will be even better than 26″, won’t it?

So what size wheels does this mbike have ? 😀

Hear me, hear me! I recant, small wheels are better at changing direction! and larger wheels are better for rolling over bumps in a straight line..

FIXED! 😉

So now we agree you can stop being a dick about it and get back to being nicher than anyone else around your local woods.

Braaaaaaaaapppppp!!!

I’m with robdob etc, I think I’ve seen 1 29er in all the time I’ve been riding (Calderdale, West Yorks in general, NYM and regular trail centre trips etc).

I think all bikes are mint, its just that some (CX and 29ers/69ers) are a bit less mint than others (26″ short travel, slack hardtails/full sussers built for ragging in the woods and continual grin inducement). But its whatever floats your boat…

easier to 360 a micro scooter than a bmx.

don’t see how that makes it a better mtb though?

“Although AH seems to have quoted Cy Turner almost word for word I am sure at the end of the 29er bit he mentioned that although the fork crown offset standard has been changed for 29ers now it is only about half of what he would want to be added for the kind of riding he designs his bikes for. “

that’s where the Jones bikes are rake-wise. There may well be a few more Jones-style geometry bikes over the next few years and they may catch on more than the current 29ers do here.

We’ll then be moving towards a USA-born niche.

easier to 360 a micro scooter than a bmx.
don’t see how that makes it a better mtb though?

That’s coz you are being a bit dumb about it and trying to cause more argument, as is everyone else who can not see the reason why whoever posted about 360ing a bmx did so. The smaller the wheels size the more manoeuverable the bike, so when this thread got onto ‘flick-ability’ (for want of a better term) of a bike the point was to illustrate that the smaller the wheels the easier it is to manoeuver the bike through rocks and roots. It IS easier to spin a smaller wheeled bike. In the same way, freestyle skis and snowboards are shorter than their off-piste, back country counterparts as they have been designed more with spinning tricks in mind. As the topic of conversation at the time was about the merits and negatives of the 26 vs 29 wheel the poster was saying that the smaller wheel (26) would fare better. He was correct to state that a BMX would be easier to 360 than a 26/29 mtb just as you are correct to state that the micro scooter would be easier to 3 than a BMX. So you actually highlighted his point further.

What he wasn’t saying was that the smaller the wheel the less rolling resistance it would have on rocks, as we all know the bigger the wheel the more inclined it will be to roll over stuff. This is why if you put a BMX against and mtb (26 or 29) on an offroad track it would lose, it would struggle to get over many of the obstacles that a bigger wheeled bike would roll over. Ever ridden a micro-scooter and flipped over the bars when you hit the smallest pebble? Neither have I, but you get the picture.

I’m taking all the “I’ve never seen a 29er” comments with a pinch of salt given that they’re usually ridden by freakishly tall people, which means it’s quite hard to tell what size their wheels are. A better yardstick would be “I’ve stopped seeing all those grown men riding around my local trails on children’s bicycles”.

Last time I looked we are part of Europe? Good to see some people on here recognize this….

Ooops

“Last time I looked we are part of Europe? Good to see some people on here recognize this….”

I was originally referring to Eurozone at the start of this thread 😉

Personally I like the fact that we’re going our own way with the UK mountain bike scene. Too many other areas of our lives / culture are being heavily influenced by the USA.

Yeah, like all the damn WHOOOOOPPPING on TV talent shows 👿

With sorted geometry – you can make a 29er with great handling, regardless of wheel weight/size – mine has a fat front wheel with an all up weight (tyre/tube/rim/disck/etc) of 3.1kg 😀 – but when you combine all the little details of geo + rigid fork, stiff wheel – 135mm hub and symmetrical build, 55mm offset on the fork, short chainstays, you get a very responsive ride – more so that my 26″ full susser.

Yes some 29ers probably do handle like a barge, not all of them though.

futon river crossing says it best.

A lot of knowledge gained from the advertorial in MBUK has been aired.

ooOOoo – that’s a brilliant clip!

I’d ask these people for a view

Dave Beeley from Big Bear Bikes
he rode most of the 2010 season on a top end Trek 26″ full suspension, switched at the end of the season to a Trek FS 29er, did his results improve? ask him

(Twinkly)Dave Powell on the Ragley rigid 29er, did the dodgy barge like slow handling slow him? (then ask him about Racing Ralph’s at Lee Quarry :wink:)

Dave (Minnellium) Haygarth on his scandal, did this cramp his style, did his wheels crumple on the doubles and table tops?

all these riders raced 29ers on one of the more technical XC venues in the UK against 26 FS, 26 long travel hardtail, 26, short travel hardtail etc etc all will have real world views based on more than “tried it once and didn’t like it”

ask Singular Sam/ Brant/ Stevo about their views on 29er geometry as they actually have 29er frames in production aimed at the UK market rather than simply clinging to the single view of someone yet to have one in production for the US market

there is plenty of room in the UK market for 29er’s, the biggest restriction has been the lack of availability due to decisions made by large manufacturers/ importers who have the associated shop network based on their “view” of the market. (they should really expand their market research from the annual cup of coffee with spokebloke :wink:)

there is also plenty of life in 26er’s, there isn’t a “right” answer to wheel size, it always depends on the rider 🙂

Going back to the different riding styles. Here in Tenerife there is a definite difference in the type of riding enjoyed by the local riders. It seems to be split into 2 distinct camps. One is DH riding where the guys run a mix of long travel DH rigs and dubious cobbled together death traps down long DH trails. Then there are the out and out XC boys and girls who will climb for hours on gravel roads only to descend on tarmac because descending on gravel is too dangerous for them.
There seems to be no or at least very very little cross over into riding singletrack etc which is probably where the biggest “scene” is in the UK.

I think Brits are generally more independent thinking and less marketing-led. So we homebrew these oddly configured bikes that international bike companies latch on to and call “UK special project” e.g. Rocky Mountain.

So yes I do think we make our own slant on things.

We’re getting regular queries from “Eurozone” about the availability of mmmbops, so I don’t think the markets are that far apart.

AWHiles didn’t get it quite right with the numbers, but the thrust of what I said was there. Original 29er forks had around 38mm offset like 26″ forks, and this is what created the crazy steep head angles and suspect handling from a few years back. Most of the current forks are around 46mm, which has still resulted in me needing to steepen the head angle of the bike I’m designing by 1 deg to get the trail back to similar level as the Cotic 26″ bikes. This causes all sorts of other knock on effects that I didn’t cover, mainly surrounding weight distribution as the front centre is shortened quite significantly, yet the rear centre (chainstay length) is increased significantly to accomodate the big wheel. This pushes the riders weight a long way further forward in the wheelbase compared to the 26″ bikes, so certain measures have to be taken to try and reduce this issue. My final parting shot was that I still don’t believe 46mm offset is enough and that the Fisher G2 forks with 51mm offset, and the Jones bikes with 55mm offset allow you to apply known 26″ bike principles to 29″ bike design. It’s no accident that Fishers and Jones are very well thought of. My mates Jones felt amazing. Would love to have a longer shot on it with regular bars.

29″ wheels are just different. They’re possibly better for covering distance and faster, flowy riding where they carry speed. For technical stuff, I don’t know yet, I’ve not done very tech riding on one yet. I’ll let you know how my prototype feels when I get it 😉 Have to say I’m looking forward to how fast mine’s likely to be down hills with some good forks and proper tyres.

GW – Member
^^ they make total sense for riding dull XC trails in a non inspiring fashion

GW – at a DH mates race this summer steve peat rocked up on the 29er tall boy, smoked everyone and drank some beer.

i`d agree not everyone is as good as SP tho.

on the flip side there are quite a few 29ers on the south downs but then the trails are fairly minceworthy.

what i dont get is this trend for long wheelbase slack 6″ ht`s. if i ride a ht i want something i can throw around and is a bit nippy.

just looked at the specs of an orange 5 vs a turner 5.spot

really not a lot in it, frame and geometry wise, which therefore suggests not really.

Giant and Trek don’t do a 140mm bike, both have adjustable travel etc but from the numbers given, again not heaps of difference.

Overall, there isn’t that much diff TBH in terms of what is being produced, although there are differences in what the markets are demanding in terms of volumes of type of bike sold.

well I read very little of this thread but I’d like to comment on this:

So other nations don’t?

Actually no they don’t mark. If I take for example french people, when winter comes,bike goes in the cave and riders goes to ski stations. People turn to road riding or more wintery activities. It’s been 3 weeks of rain around here and we are just waiting for it to stop to ride again, no big deal. And we’re among the less weather shy. When I was in the UK I use to ride regardless of the weather, mainly because it was a constant all year long.

Same goes with spain as far as I am aware.

at a DH mates race this summer steve peat rocked up on the 29er tall boy, smoked everyone and drank some beer

not sure you can judge a bike by how well steve peat can ride it TBH iirc he is quite good on bikes

in interview [november this year] he said this

One last thing – we hear Bryceland has been trying out a Santa Cruz Tallboy 29er. How about you?
I’ve ridden one once and I’ll be ordering one this year, just as a fun bike. I can’t see me ever putting 29ers on a V10 though!

http://www.socaltrailriders.org/forum/adrenaline-factory/47671-peaty-tallboy.html

When I was in the UK I use to ride regardless of the weather, mainly because it was a constant all year long.

Even the weather goes on strike in Spain and France then must like as short working week and a Siesta 😉

jnkyard yes but it only last a couple of week 😉

I think the future of the uk riding scene is in 29ers for mile munchers and less technical riding. and 100mm to 120mm trail bikes for uk ‘all mountain riders’ which are slightly more relaxed than xc race full sussers- due to people starting to realise they don’t need a big 5 or 6inch all mountain bike for the uk’s singletrack. the sooner a lot of riders get on a bike with less travel- the easier the climbs get and the more fun the decents and singletrack gets.

I need a sit down and a brew after reading this thread

GW – at a DH mates race this summer steve peat rocked up on the 29er tall boy, smoked everyone and drank some beer.

i`d agree not everyone is as good as SP tho.

well the guy did came from doing very well in XC to smoking everyone the UK in DH on a fully rigid Kona. There’s absolutley no denying Peaty is one of the fastest DH riders in the world ever and being so tall should be able to handle the larger wheels a bit better than most too but it’s funny you use him as an example because IMO out of the top 20 DH riders in the world right now I’d prob put Peat’s old skool riding style down as the absolutley least inspiring from a spectators point of view.

Santa Cruz pay their top riders handsomly so they’d be complete idiots not to have them seen riding their latest bikes even if they were shit.

I need a sit down and a beer after watching that video.

Why should I ride when it rains, it only rains for about 30 wet days per year and you can’t ride everyday. 😉

“I’d prob put Peat’s old skool riding style down as the absolutley least inspiring from a spectators point of view”

Can you explain what an “old skool riding style” is, and why it’s not inspiring? I’m not joking, I just don’t understand what you meant.

buzz – how long have you followed DH racing? and I’ll try and explain.

Love the video ooOOoo.

Not sure wheel size had much to do with Gee Atherton winning that contest though. Looks like better bike handling and maintaining flow to me.

I don’t really see that much difference between us and our Euro chums, other than slight fashion differences. This vid could easily be a STW meet. Although, I agree with ivantate, in parts of mainland Europe it’s probably not as well developed as a ‘leisure activity’ as it is in the UK.

Yeah no idea about wheels either TBH 🙂
I think Gee can just have better flow as his bike doesn’t weigh more than he does.

I wouldn’t worry your head thinking about why. it was just a “top Gear” style publicity stunt for RedBull.. Gee’s 10yrs+ experience riding/racing the FW track Vs. Night’s couple of practice runs meant in true Top Gear style there was nothing even vaguely fair about the race.

True… bit of a set-up, but great to watch 😀

“buzz – how long have you followed DH racing? and I’ll try and explain.”

I started watched some World Cup DH on freecaster last year and managed to see 4/6 World Cup events this season and the mens’ World Champs, but that’s all.

2retro4u
Marin County, Cali

I live in California. In my crowd it’s about half and half 29/26 and everyone seems to be able to accomplish the same feats. We don’t generally ride when it’s raining because pretty soon it won’t be raining. The rain gauge in my back yard shows about six inches since the beginning of October, all from four short rainy spells.

A few months ago I was riding off the top of Mount Tamalpais on my GF Rumblefish2, a 29er FS with 5″ or so, down a wide but very rough trail with rocks the size of toasters. It’s just the sort of thing the bike is made for and I thought I was going pretty good, and then some guy smoked me on a hard tail.

I don’t think it’s the bike.

Santa Cruz pay their top riders handsomly so they’d be complete idiots not to have them seen riding their latest bikes even if they were shit.

I thought the V 10 was supposed to be quite good.

If it’s as shit as you say it’s no wonder Peaty rode a Tallboy at a private low key gathering.