Anyone remember how the Falklands began?

Is this the same Thatcher that was earlier trying to sell the Falklands to the Argentinians?

After the deal fell through, blocked by the right wing of her own party, the Argentinians invaded and Thatcher developed a patriotic streak.

Or did I miss something?

i) Polls is not Elections, if you believed polls then the conservatives would have lost in 1992
ii) Not my “funny Ha-Ha comment, Gerald Kaufmans, you know, Labour MP, former Labour govt member – lets also look at the comment by Dennis Healey: The reason we were defeated in so far as defence played a role is that people believe we were in favour of unilaterally disarming ourselves. It wasn’t the confusion. It was the unilateralism that was the damaging thing.
iii) Hannan proposes no such thing, he proposes withdrawal from the EU, the EU is NOT the same as the EEC!
iv) Yes, very different, we’d be living in totalitarian marxist state, though I’m sure that thought makes you do a little sex wee!
v) You brought it up!

Interesting but completely irrelevant points big_n_daft.

So he said “We had not the armour, the strength, the quickness in manoeuvre, yes, the leadership” and ? …….does that statement claim that the Falklands War didn’t save Thatcher’s political skin ?

And the second quote is even more irrelevant. Michael Foot fully supported Thatcher’s decision to send the task force to the Falklands…….so why wouldn’t he congratulate Thatcher after the retaking of the Falklands in 1982 ….eh?

None of that detracts from the fact that firstly, the war was avoidable, and secondly, Thatcher benefited enormously from the Falklands War. Indeed it saved her bacon at a time when her political career was about to nose-dive..

To summarise then, almost 30 years on and Teh Toriezz are back in power, ernie still hasn’t recovered from the Thatcher years and creams himself nightly over a laminated copy of Clause 4.

So basically Woppit, you are passing judgement that those who suggest the Falklands War was a “needless conflict” are ‘the frothing left’ .

Am I?

Am I?

Don’t worry, classic Ernie tactics, putting words into other people’s mouths.

[Cue lots of quotes, underlined bold points, questions and the odd CAPS thrown in]

Polls is not Elections

When every single poll, over several years, says exactly the same thing, then they are extremely precise in gauging public opinion. And they all said one thing – that labour was in the lead. There is no doubt whatsoever that the Tories would have lost the election had it occurred before the Falklands War. No opinion polls have ever been so consistently wrong over several years – otherwise no one would bother with them. To suggest otherwise is dishonest nonsense.

Hannan proposes no such thing, he proposes withdrawal from the EU, the EU is NOT the same as the EEC!

Pedantic nonsense.

Yes, very different, we’d be living in totalitarian marxist state

“The ’83 Labour Manifesto would have led to a totalitarian marxist state” = more breathtakingly infantile nonsense from Zulu-Eleven. And with that, I don’t think I can be arsed anymore. I gave you the benefit of the doubt for once and decided to enter a debate with you, but true to form, you end coming out with the usual puerile bollocks. I guess you can’t help yourself.

Am I?

As allthepies suggests don’t worry about it. If you didn’t say it, then it must be me putting words into your mouth.

None of that detracts from the fact that firstly, the war was avoidable

no-one debating that in the context of 20:20 hindsight

, and secondly, Thatcher benefited enormously from the Falklands War. Indeed it saved her bacon at a time when her political career was about to nose-dive..

sorry I thought you said

Thatcher would have known for certain that she would lose the next general election unless she could somehow pull a rabbit out of the hat – the Argentine invasion of the the Falklands gave her a unique opportunity. And she took it.

so was it “events” or a deliberate plan to retake the Falklands (with support from Michael Foot) in order to get re-elected.

I just want to be clear seeing as I am so “daft”

So lets have a war with Libya, or just organise one and let the french fight it.

So the Argie bargies invade the Falkands inhabited by British subjects and the Uk Government decided to defend and retake the island, hmmmm don’t know what the fuss is about.

Lol @ ernie_lynch what a ranting nutter.

No, it was all an evil plan by Thatch to aid her re-election chances. Any phool can see that.

flippinheckler – Member
So the Argie bargies invade the Falkands inhabited by British subjects and the Uk Government decided to defend and retake the island, hmmmm don’t know what the fuss is about.

Posted 6 minutes ago # Report-Post

and quite a few squaddies sadly get killed,or injured, we then have to pay out millions to build an airport and infrastructure, and keeep 1000 troops there to defend a few puffins and a load of burnt out vehicles, oh and it allowed thatcher to win an election, while destroying the miners and steel workers with a good helping hand to the car industry along the way to destroy it as well.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CHEAPER TO JUST PUT ALL THE conservative VOTERS ON A BOAT AND LET THEM DEFEND THE DAMM ISLAND, AND LET PEOPLE WHO CARE RUN THE COUNTRY.

So easy in hindsight,

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CHEAPER TO JUST PUT ALL THE conservative VOTERS miners ON A BOAT AND LET THEM DEFEND THE DAMM ISLAND, AND LET PEOPLE WHO CARE RUN THE COUNTRY.

FTFY

and secondly, Thatcher benefited enormously from the Falklands War. Indeed it saved her bacon at a time when her political career was about to nose-dive..

“sorry I thought you said”

Thatcher would have known for certain that she would lose the next general election unless she could somehow pull a rabbit out of the hat – the Argentine invasion of the the Falklands gave her a unique opportunity. And she took it.

No need to apologise, I did say both things ……is there a problem ?

so was it “events” or a deliberate plan to retake the Falklands (with support from Michael Foot) in order to get re-elected.

I just want to be clear seeing as I am so “daft”

Eh ? I’m sorry, maybe I’m going daft now ….. I don’t know what your saying/asking.

But if it helps though – I’ll reaffirm what I believe.

Firstly, I reckon that, as the article in the Spectator points out, the Falklands War was a “needless conflict”. It was due to gross incompetence by the Thatcher government. Again as the Spectator points out, “A clearer signal of British abdication of interest in this region could not have been sent to the Argentinians, notoriously obsessed with recovering “the Malvinas”. On a previous occasion under the Labour Government a nuclear attack submarine had been ostentatiously despatched to the South Atlantic to cool Argentinian heads. But in 1982 the Conservative Government failed to make any such deterrent gesture”.

The reason for this gross incompetence ? ….penny-pinching by Thatcher, simple as. Of course ironically, the Falklands War ended up costing an absolute fortune.

Secondly, I believe that Thatcher saw a possible Falklands War as the perfect opportunity to save her political skin and therefore scuppered all attempts to find a peaceful solution to the crises.

And thirdly, I believe that her calculations were correct, and that she did indeed benefit hugely from the Falklands War…….lucky girl.

HTH

project – Member

and quite a few squaddies sadly get killed,or injured, we then have to pay out millions to build an airport and infrastructure, and keeep 1000 troops there to defend a few puffins and a load of burnt out vehicles, oh and it allowed thatcher to win an election, while destroying the miners and steel workers with a good helping hand to the car industry along the way to destroy it as well.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CHEAPER TO JUST PUT ALL THE conservative VOTERS ON A BOAT AND LET THEM DEFEND THE DAMM ISLAND, AND LET PEOPLE WHO CARE RUN THE COUNTRY.

So easy in hindsight,

Listen, there are people who can help you.

Your post brings to mind a Tory decision that genuinely was a mistake, Care in the Community.

😯

why do all those that oppose this want to simplify the opposing view?
Thatcher removed the ship defending the island and sent mixed messages to the argentinina leaders – not in dispute
They invaded – not in dispute
Winning wars is popular- not in dispute
Thatcher thought about the electoral consequences – not in dispute – though Bign daft objects when I say this but not when he does
Thatcher was unpopular and not likely to win the election prior to the inavsion /recapture- not in dispute Z-11 aside from what ernie says
You may conclude what you want from this but it seems reasonable to assume she did not launch the task force unaware of the electoral implcations of this and that she would not have won without this. Calling ernie a nutter is hardly a reasoned argument. When you disagree perhaps try articulating your argument without over simplyfying the alternative view or those making it?

Hmmmmmmm and who sent us into Iraq & Afghanistan? Thatcher & Conservatives, NO Blair and NEW Labour far more damaging than the Falklands war.

Dobbo – Member

Lol @ ernie_lynch what a ranting nutter.

Gosh, I’m in the company of kids !

Having established that I’m a “ranting nutter” Dobbo, have you got anything constructive to say on the topic which was : “Anyone remember how the Falklands began?”

Go on …….. don’t be shy …… say something 😀

but it seems reasonable to assume she did not launch the task force unaware of the electoral implcations of this and that she would not have won without this.

Reasonable to whom ?

You know, this is one of the things I love about STW…

I have considerable reservations about Cameron and the current Tory/Lib coalition government, but reading ernie’s posts reminds me why I never have and never will be able to vote Labour.

penny-pinching by Thatcher

Ahhh – the perpetual personification of politics – I do love the way you do that after all this time. Let it go. That sort of vitriol can make a man sound bitter and stuck in the past.

oh.

to defend a few puffins and a load of burnt out vehicles,

So what are the island people, the puffins or the vehicles?
FFS. Get a grip of yourself.

Not really interested in joining in, but having just read through the whole thread that has developed since I posted last night, I have noticed two main things :-

1) The point I was making which is the similarities between the start of the Falklands war, ie having to recommission and buy back scrapped and sold kit is spookily like whats now going on with the Nimrods, and that seems to have passed everyone by.
2) How rude, ill informed and belligerant the Thatcherites seem to be. simply abusing or belittling isn’t really an argument guys. It is entirely possible that it is what Public School teaches you, but its not an argument.

Night night

flippinheckler – Member
Hmmmmmmm and who sent us into Iraq & Afghanistan? Thatcher & Conservatives, NO Blair and NEW Labour far more damaging than the Falklands war.

Posted 1 minute ago # Report-Post

Actually it was the bike riding american, and not Lance A , Bliar just did what he was told just like a subservient puppy dog.

???????
Blair made a conscious decision to send british troops to these theatres of war.

Actually it was the bike riding american, and not Lance A , Bliar just did what he was told just like a subservient puppy dog

Oh so thats okay then, typical Labour wasn’t me Gov!

TooTall – Member

penny-pinching by Thatcher

Ahhh – the perpetual personification of politics – I do love the way you do that after all this time. Let it go. That sort of vitriol can make a man sound bitter and stuck in the past.

oh.

I was simply quoting the Tory publication The Spectator !

And do you think Captain Nick Barker RN captain of HMS Endurance during the Falklands War was a vitriolic bitter man ? 😀

This is what according to the Spectator he had to say :

“His starting point is the 1981 Defence Review by John Nott, the then Secretary of State for Defence, which sought drastically to cut defence costs. The aim was reasonable enough, for in 1981 Britain was still carrying a proportionately much heavier defence burden than her commercial rivals, such as Germany and Japan. Nott wished to put greater emphasis on the Nato defence of Europe at the expense of `out of area’ commitments. Of the three services, the Royal Navy was the least involved with Continental Europe and the most involved in global reach. It therefore seemed to Nott that it was the Navy that could most readily be shrunk. Hence his proposal to sell one of the Navy’s only three carriers to Australia, as well as to cut the numbers of other types of ship.

Among these was the Falklands `guardship’, the Endurance, an adapted Danish Baltic trader armed with 16 AS 12 air-tosurface missiles and equipped with sophisticated electronic listening gear. Nott announced that she would be withdrawn in 1982 and not replaced. This would leave the Falkland Isles (with its population of British stock) and other British dependencies in the South Atlantic and the Antarctic to be defended by a few lightly armed Royal Marines. A clearer signal of British abdication of interest in this region could not have been sent to the Argentinians, notoriously obsessed with recovering “the Malvinas”.

So yes, Tory spending cuts were behind the events which led to the Falklands War.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3724/is_199705/ai_n8781734/

I have considerable reservations about Cameron and the current Tory/Lib coalition government, but reading ernie’s posts reminds me why I never have and never will be able to vote Labour.

Why, can’t you make up your own mind 🙂

Reasonable to whom ?

The holy trintiy … well ernie, myeslf and big ndaft 😆
Do you now want to claima a politician did something without thinking about the electoral implications ?
You would need to be either stupid or an astoundngly bad politician and Thatcher was neither.
See the polls before the invasion and after and argue it had no effect then – see ernies factual posts for clarification there.
Why not say what you think rather than ask for clarification from me

So yes, Tory spending cuts were behind the events which led to the Falklands War.

In your Opinion!

mancjon – Member

Why, can’t you make up your own mind

Commiserations on your piss poor reading and comprehension.

Hmmmmmmm and who sent us into Iraq & Afghanistan? Thatcher & Conservatives, NO Blair and NEW Labour far more damaging than the Falklands war.

What has that go to do with anything. I agree with what you say but the thread is about Falklands after all.

Commiserations on your piss poor reading and comprehension.

Youv’e lost me on that one. I was simply trying to point out (badly it seems), that Ernie does not necessarily represent what Labour represent and that to rely on one persons interpretation of events to colour your political choice is not really very sensible.

Sorry i didn’t explain it very well in the first place.

BTW, this made me chuckle

bravohotel8er – Member

I have considerable reservations about Cameron and the current Tory/Lib coalition government, but reading ernie’s posts reminds me why I never have and never will be able to vote Labour.

Result ! 😀

I don’t vote Labour and wouldn’t recommend that anyone did !

I voted LibDem in ’97, 2001, and 2005. And Green in 2010.

Ernie – would the Invasion have occurred in ’82 if Jim Callaghan (Labour foreign Secretary under Wilson administration) had not proposed a lease back deal to the Argentinians in 1976?

In your Opinion!

what conclusion are you drawing from the article from Captain Nick Barker RN captain of HMS Endurance during the Falklands War

A clearer signal of British abdication of interest in this region could not have been sent to the Argentinians, notoriously obsessed with recovering “the Malvinas”.

It had no effect perhaps. The removal of ths ship defending the island in no way affected the argentians or influenced their response?
Ernies conclusion seems far more reasonable than the alternative? perhaps you have third way [and I dont mean sniping]?

What has that go to do with anything

Whilst I cannot deny the Tories have made some pi$$ poor decisions rightly or wrongly depending on your point of view Thatcher and her government are getting a right bashing over the Falklands, I was just trying to remind everyone that Labour have made far worse decisions in more recent years.

Have you got big fingers junkyard? 😀