Anyone remember how the Falklands began?

That has to be the most bitter twisted pile of crap I’ve ever read on STW

Well you don’t need to rely on STW to read that “bitter twisted pile of crap”……..it is a very widespread point of view held by many people across society.

There is no doubt at all that Thatcher was the most unpopular British Prime ever recorded before the Falklands War. Nor is there any doubt at all that she benefited hugely from the Falklands War.

From the Daily Telegraph :

The liberation of the Falklands, which came at the cost of 236 British fatalities and the loss of a number of Royal Navy vessels, was a personal triumph for Margaret Thatcher and would prove to be the defining moment of her premiership.

PeterPoddy – Member

thatcher wanted a war to take peoples minds off what she had done to the working classes and british industry,

That has to be the most bitter twisted pile of crap I’ve ever read on STW

Posted 6 minutes ago # Report-Post

Your opinion , my opinion, history will tell the truth and is.

Good to an STW grown up discussion in progress. Can’t be long before the chop is delivered by the mods/stasi…

PP ar eyou claiming thatcher was so politically naive that it did nto cross her mind tha **** might just make her popular if she had a war

and it carries on

Also all the sailors that where killed on the Belgrano and other ships, no need at all.

That has to be the most bitter twisted pile of crap I’ve ever read on STW

In fairness PP, it just identifies project as having grown up north of about, oh, say Milton Keynes ?

(or else like Ernie – honorary northener. I’d add in Billy Bragg but I think they’re the same person 😉 )

see the edit [the **** was typo that got swear filterd but I altered it it will be obvious what word was formed]and excatly what is wrong with what I said? Thatcher really gave no thought to the election then is that your claim?

Yep totally northern working class thats me.

It would be interesting to compare public support for the Falklands war at the time and the Iraq war under Blair.

Both supported by the media, especially one media magnate it appears.

like Ernie – honorary northener

Cheeky git …….. I don’t even like Norf Landan.

In fact, I come from Sarf Croydon.

And I was brought up in SW London……went to school in SE London.

…..southerner through and through me

What on earth do you think the Soviet Union would have made of it if the second most powerful country in NATO hadn’t bothered to defend it’s own territory against a third rate Latin American state?

ermm, pretty much nothing actually. What exactly do you think the Soviet Union would have done, launched an attack on the UK ?

That has to be the most bitter twisted pile of crap I’ve ever read on STW

Really ! I have only been using this site for about a month and i’ve seen a lot worse than that. I don’t argue that was the sole reason for the war but i do think it played a significant part. She really was in a mess before that war.

Mind you, i too am a northener and personally think she was the worst thing to happen to this country in my lifetime so i suppose i am a bit biased.

Well you don’t need to rely on STW to read that “bitter twisted pile of crap”……..it is a very widespread point of view held by many people across society.

you really think that the government of the time in collusion with the armed forces, intelligence services and the foriegn power decided to set in train a series of events…. defence review, withdrawl of HMS Endurance, citizenship legislation in order to create events that would increase their popularity at the time via a conflict at the furthest reaches of the military in a difficult environment etc etc?

tin foil hat anyone?

There is no doubt at all that Thatcher was the most unpopular British Prime ever recorded before the Falklands War. Nor is there any doubt at all that she benefited hugely from the Falklands War.

unpopular politians benefiting from events shocka

Also all the sailors that where killed on the Belgrano and other ships, no need at all.

It’s tired and been done to death so let it go.
Besides, more have been killed during the labour wars.

I don’t argue that was the sole reason for the war but i do think it played a significant part

nail and head unless the right wingers – where have you all gone with your well reasoned counter points- can demonstrate otherwise with something other than invective.
EDIT:

unpopular politians benefiting from events shocka

yet when I suggested she may have taken this into account you called it tosh.

Mind you, i too am a northener and personally think she was the worst thing to happen to this country in my lifetime so i suppose i am a bit biased.

Thatcher wasn’t a Southerner, so she must have been a Northerner.

And her Finchley seat was in North London…….need I say more ?

you really think that the government of the time in collusion with the armed forces, intelligence services and the foriegn power decided to set in train a series of events…. defence review, withdrawl of HMS Endurance, citizenship legislation in order to create events that would increase their popularity at the time via a conflict at the furthest reaches of the military in a difficult environment etc etc?

No i don’t think that they deliberately manipulated it as you describe above but i do think they saw an opportunity when it presented itself.

thatcher was created in greengrocers in grantham

unpopular politians benefiting from events shocka

Ahhh………we’re getting somewhere ! 8)

big and daft has eventually come round to accepting the proposition…..anyone else ?

you really think that the government of the time in collusion with the armed forces, intelligence services and the foriegn power decided to set in train a series of events…. defence review, withdrawl of HMS Endurance, citizenship legislation in order to create events that would increase their popularity at the time via a conflict at the furthest reaches of the military in a difficult environment etc etc?

No, I don’t think that at all. What I can never fathom though, is how the Thatcher regime was feted for the so called victory rather than booted from office for allowing the invasion to take place ❓

I’d hope Thatcher as a mother would not have sent our troops off to war just to gain votes. I suspect, the chances of victory were not much better than defeat.

At least today with over 1000 troops stationed down there on continual exercise and proper support there won’t be any future invasion.

1000 troops for now until the defence cuts cull them

you suggesting Dave may have the same plan to get out of his election pickle 😉

What I can never fathom though, is how the Thatcher regime was feted for the so called victory rather than booted from office for allowing the invasion to take place

Well she successfully managed to pin the blame on her Foreign Secretary Lord Carrington, and he was forced to resign for the failure of British foreign policy in the lead up to the Falkland’s invasion.

But I take your point – Anthony Eden was forced to resign as PM because of the **** up which was Suez.

yet when I suggested she may have taken this into account you called it tosh

because it is

option 1
the cabinet meets, someone says wars make us popular (if we win) lets do it

option 2
the cabinet meets, discusses doing nothing bins the idea, military desperate to demonstrate there value in the context of massive pending cuts go “can do”, ergo you either go to war to prevent the consequences of not (the rolling up of other similar places, etc) or you or you don’t and face being seen as weak by everyone

etc etc

I would suggest that a far more complex version of option 2 occurred

But I take your point – Anthony Eden was forced to resign as PM because of the **** up which was Suez.

we lost in Suez

Thatcher would have known that and also that the odds in the Falklands of winning were probably lower

Can anyone who is so pro Labour explain the morality of the Iraq invasion that the last government lead us into first on the threat of WMDs then when questioned recently changed the story.
The Falklands war cost the lives of around 900 service men and 3 civilians. The Iraq war is estimated at around 100,000 civilians alone. I don’t think anyone can claim a moral high ground on this subject leave it to the historians to paint the real villians.

Thatcher! Thatcher! Thatcher! Blah! Blah! Blah!

The Falklands was a sideshow compared with the self righteous bull that’s been Iraq and Afghanistan.

BBC News a good bloke dies and his dog joins him – Russia Today 8 Afghan boys under the age of 12 die on the same day in ‘misunderstanding’
What gets reported?

As an ex-soldier I’m tired of war,

iirc carrington was the only one to oppose the original decison to remove the ship but he took one for the team.

I would suggest that a far more complex version of option 2 occurred

I would suggest a combination of option 1 and 2 occured.

Can anyone who is so pro Labour explain the morality of the Iraq invasion that the last government lead us into first on the threat of WMDs then when questioned recently changed the story.

I am generally more left wing than right (can you tell !) so Labour is my natural “home” but i would never try to defend the Iraq invasion. Bloody shameful is all i can say.

It would be interesting to compare public support for the Falklands war at the time and the Iraq war under Blair.

Considering one was fought over sovereign British territory invaded by a foreign power, and the other was a foreign country with no connection at all with Britain or the US and was invaded using false intel for justification, I think it can be taken as read that as soon as Blair’s flimsy excuses were blown apart, initial tentative public support for the latter quickly evaporated. Argentina are still making aggressive noises over the Falklands being their ‘territory’, despite there never, ever being any Argentinian colony there. Spanish, for a while, yes, so perhaps Argentina can ask Spain if it can be a Spanish colony again as well.

we lost in Suez

That’s not the reason Anthony Eden resigned. He resigned because the British government’s policy over Suez was clearly wrong – it was a foreign policy blunder/disaster.

Can anyone who is so pro Labour explain the morality of the Iraq invasion that the last government lead us into first on the threat of WMDs then when questioned recently changed the story.

You think we all support the Iraq war coz it was labour 😯 How daft /hypocrtical do you think we are? It was a total and utter disgrace and done for oil by two christian meglomaniacs with a sense of duty manipulating information to fool [some] people and ignore their people [ here any way by blair].
then they made hiom a peace envoy FFS 🙄

Can anyone who is so pro Labour explain the morality of the Iraq invasion that the last government lead us into first on the threat of WMDs then when questioned recently changed the story.

No, criminal that – the weasely little shite

I would suggest that a far more complex version of option 2 occurred

I would suggest a combination of option 1 and 2 occured.
sounds about right

while i dont think she wanted to start a war im sure she was happy to exacerbate the conflict for her own political ends

never underestimate a pms desire to cling to power , thatcher herself was well past her sell by date when she was finally pushed out
blair, brown etc

and a good bit of flag waving low risk RAF action in the middle east will nicely distract from the slash and burn of the public sector, privatisation of the nhs etc

and a good bit of flag waving low risk RAF action in the middle east will nicely distract from the slash and burn of the public sector, privatisation of the nhs etc

Careful now……..that’s likely to be described as “the most bitter twisted pile of crap I’ve ever read on STW”

In the case of the Falklands, I believe the phrase is “a nods as good as a wink”. All the noises coming from the foreign office invited the Junta to hop on over there and make a land grab. What they did not count on would be the outcry from the British press (of a certain kind) still purporting the myth that we as a country had an effective fighting force.

The only thing world class brought to bear in that episode was the rhetoric and the air to air missiles that the Americans gave us.

ernie_lynch – Member

and a good bit of flag waving low risk RAF action in the middle east will nicely distract from the slash and burn of the public sector, privatisation of the nhs etc

Careful now……..that’s likely to be described as “the most bitter twisted pile of crap I’ve ever read on STW”

i wish it was bitter and twisted, i just cant see any other reason why cameron & hague seem to be pushing so hard for intervention, perhaps some misguided arrogant blairesque belief in their own righteousness?
of course there is all that oil stuff too………

the myth that we as a country had an effective fighting force.

Except that it wasn’t a myth, we did have ‘an effective fighting force’

The only thing world class brought to bear in that episode was the rhetoric and the air to air missiles that the Americans gave us.

So, not the incredible feat of arms involved in fighting many thousands of miles from your country/nearest air/naval bases (but within range of your enemy’s air bases) and triumphing in spite of frequently reversing the commonly held adage that a 3:1 numerical advantage is required in order to ensure victory against a well entrenched opponent?