Anti Muslim sentiment accusations

Can you give me an example of this dictatorial rhetoric of which you speak, please?

You are not allowed to publish e-mails from the mods are you 😉

To be clear not had one for a very long time and they have occasionally discussed issues with me so just a joke.

Religion is a political position, it’s a view point, an opinion – nothing more, it’s not special and has (or should have) no special rights. The religious seem to feel that they have some special place in the world that the rules don’t apply to them, that they report to a higher authority, that “only god can judge me” – Scary, self centred and mental.

If the media pick up on this and they look as mad as they are, fair enough.

You are not allowed to publish e-mails from the mods are you

Depends, I can’t speak for others but personally I would try not to send anything via email that I wouldn’t want escaping into the public domain. Any veiled secrecy is probably just that we’d rather avoid a long and protracted ‘discussion’ with people who’d argue that milk is purple.

Which reminds me, I owe you an email.

So just to be clear: this is a thread started by a pseudonymous person to discuss vague complaints of anonymous persons about unspecified persons’ unspecified allegations about unnamed schools being tainted by unevidenced bias? Have I got that right?

So just to be clear: this is a thread started by a pseudonymous person to discuss vague complaints of anonymous persons about unspecified persons’ unspecified allegations about unnamed schools being tainted by unevidenced bias? Have I got that right?

What’s your point caller?

Milk is petrol and looks like a tree.

As any fule kno.

So just to be clear: this is a thread started by a pseudonymous person to discuss vague complaints of anonymous persons about unspecified persons’ unspecified allegations about unnamed schools being tainted by unevidenced bias? Have I got that right?

Not at all. Couldn’t be more wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27257077

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-27290877

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/10806862/City-fights-new-Trojan-Horse-Islamic-schools-plot.html

Do you believe there is false reporting and possibly a deliberate attempt to bolster anti Muslim sentiment from within the government as suggested?

In answer to this – no I think that’s highly unlikely. There are many things you can accuse the current government of but I really don’t think this is one of them.

False reporting – almost certainly, but that doesn’t mean the ‘plots’ didn’t happen.

grum – they go to that school as it is the village school. It is the one they can walk to, and have no stupid religious criteria for getting in.

And while I am happy that your opinion is different to mine, and you are quite at liberty to say so, just dismissing my opinion as bullshit doesn’t exactly make me warm to your counter argument. An inability to consider or deal with others point of view is a problem across all manner of religious, cultural and political issues.

And I think your comment rather answered Cougars later point. I’ve said it before on here that the level of intolerance for religion on this forum is surprisingly “forthright”. I’m not religious, I believe that extreme religious views are as dangerous as any other form of extreme views, but I fail to see how otherwise normally broadminded members of the forum can be so blinkered on this one topic.

I’ve said it before on here that the level of intolerance for religion on this forum is surprisingly “forthright”

Maybe some people feel quite strongly that religion isn’t a good thing?

I think the religion haters like to overstate the risks and dangers of those they oppose, just as much as extremists in many religions.

OK, if you want me to give a more measured response…

Which religion haters? The ones on this thread? Are you genuinely suggesting that the views expressed on this thread are similar to those of religious extremists? You know, the ones who murder people and blow things up. Really?

I was brought up religious and there are plenty of positive things about religion (social responsibility/morality/anti-materialism, self-reflection, etc). However, none of those things need to be exclusive to religion – and I think it’s damaging for religion to try and claim some kind of monopoly over them (which it frequently does).

Sorry grum, but that’s bullshit 😆

You make a very valid point there, and a lot of moderates in many religions will agree that it doesn’t matter where you get those beneficial attitudes from, so long as you have them and display them.

As always though, it’s the extremists of all flavours who get the attention, not the sensible moderates.

not the sensible moderates.

I think thats a bit of an oxymoron however where are these “moderates” ? where is their sense of responsibility when it comes to those who (allegedly) distort their beliefs? Why are they nor vocal in their condemnation?
The fact of the matter is it is the extremists who are often simply the strictest adherents to the religion itself.

Can you give me an example of this dictatorial rhetoric of which you speak, please?

BUT sir i was joking

Have I got that right?

Nope you were way too precise there

I fail to see how otherwise normally broadminded members of the forum can be so blinkered on this one topic.

Because we have suffered under the force of its oppression *

You called folk whose opinion you disagree with dangerous, extremists and blinkered. Seems we all get worked up on this issue.

Personally the reason for me is that for centuries, and still today in some places, you can be killed for just denying the existence of a god. i find it hard to tolerate such an extreme position, I find it hard to tolerate being forced to engage in their act of worship at school, and I find it hard to tolerate paying for them to make more of their kind via , what i would term , indoctrination. I find it hard that my kids have to endure this as well. One day humanity will view religion in the same way we view possession as a suitable explanation for mental illness or the flat earth or any other variety of anachronistic superstitious intepretations of reality that have no basis in fact

If they just sat at home or their places of worship and practiced and left me alone I would not care. Not only do they want to live by their rules they think I should as well – see gay marriage for a recent example

* Intentional irony please do not take it seriously

you can be killed for just denying the existence of a god. i find it hard to tolerate such an extreme position

And its worse than that! The UN is again actually debating a blasphemy law.

The UN is again actually debating a blasphemy law.

Jesus, Really. God, what next!

I personally agree with everything Junkyard is saying (among others) – Religion in education has only one place – History.

Religious beliefs are like penises – It’s fine to have one, just don’t ram it down my throat or the throat of a child who knows no better!

And I think your comment rather answered Cougars later point. I’ve said it before on here that the level of intolerance for religion on this forum is surprisingly “forthright”

Except, it doesn’t, or rather if it does then I misinterpreted the original statement I replied to; to wit, “STW can be a truly scary place sometimes. The dictatorial anti religious rhetoric is quite disturbing.”

I took the “dictatorial” comment to imply that this is some sort of internal policy, that we’re religiously intolerant in our approach to forum moderation. I’d truly hope that no-one actually believes that; as demonstrated time and again on here, people are free to express their beliefs, religious or otherwise, without censorship (unless that belief involves questioning another member’s parentage). If you couldn’t then we wouldn’t be having this discussion right now.

I think my own personal views are fairly well documented, and could from a certain point of view be described as “anti-religious rhetoric” I guess. But you’re not suggesting that just because it says “Moderator” next to my name I’m suddenly no longer allowed to have a viewpoint or take part in a debate? Are you?

So that just leaves us with the opinions of those who use the forum. I’m not sure what the alternative to allowing people to be openly anti-religious would be. If you want to hide behind censorship rather than stand up for your corner then I suppose we could just start deleting any comments which paint religion in a negative light? Though of course for balance we’d also have to delete those that talk positively about it, otherwise we’ll be taking sides and be accused of bias.

Is that the sort of forum you’d prefer? I’m not convinced that it’s a place I’d want to hang out in.

The UN is again actually debating a blasphemy law.

so posting zombie jesus easter cartoons could land you in prison – or start an international conflict? 🙁

and you would lose as god is on their side now die infidel scum

PS Jesus loves you

level of intolerance for religion on this forum is surprisingly “forthright”

And long may it continue.

I’ve said it before on here that the level of intolerance for religion on this forum is surprisingly “forthright”

If I tell you I believe directional cables to be the greatest advance in hifi technology you can (possibly quite rightly) state that it is bollocks of the highest order and call me a credulous gullible idiot for believing in that shit. Claiming you believe in a higher power may get people saying similar to you. Just because your religious views may be “deep seated” doesn’t make you immune from criticism, religious views aren’t sacred. Aslong as you retain some decorum criticising other peoples beliefs about anything are fair game shirley?

Besides most atheists couldn’t give a fig what you believe aslong is it doesn’t affect none (or different) believers.

There is an awful lot of ignorance on this thread – together with a lot of prejudice, intellectual conceit and I can only imagine a significant amount of hypocrisy.

Disappointing really…

Criticising religious beliefs is not ignorance, intolerance or hypocritical.

Oh well, I suppose I ought:

There’s no such thing as a “god” – that’s just primitive superstition.

Religion is just gibberish about nothing.

Believing in a “god” of some sort and being in a religion often makes some people happy and other people miserable but it doesn’t prove anything or present any evidence to support the various superstitions on offer.

That’s about it.

Next.

konabunny – Member
So just to be clear: this is a thread started by a pseudonymous person to discuss vague complaints of anonymous persons about unspecified persons’ unspecified allegations about unnamed schools being tainted by unevidenced bias? Have I got that right?

It was God acting in a mysterious way!

It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key.

@Cougar – I wasn’t referring to STW (as an organisation) as being scary or dictatorial, it was in reference to the posts of others who where posting things like all religious teaching in schools should be banned, all schools (inc private ones) should follow a specific curriculum (with the inference that it had no religious element) – I felt these posts/opinions where dictatorial removing the freedom of choice form others.

Many religions now come before us with ingratiating smirks and
outspread hands, like an unctuous merchant in a bazaar. They offer
consolation and solidarity and uplift, competing as they do in a
marketplace. But we have a right to remember how barbarically they
behaved when they were strong and were making an offer that people
could not refuse – Christopher Hitchens.

How true this is and now they claim to be oppressed and that we the unbelievers are the intolerant ones. It would be laughable if it were not so serious as in many places around the world they are still making an offer you can’t refuse and some would like to see this in the UK.

Actually, Cougar, your views are well known on this subject. And you are perfectly entitled to voice them, as most of us regulars know who you are and how you and the other mods work.

However, I’m not sure that having “moderator” next to your name always helps, and I wouldn’t want some random visitor to the forum causing trouble for you or STW if something you said as an individual was taken out of context and twisted into being “the site” taking sides.

This thread has made me realise how bitter and twisted I have become,reading this thread made me think ‘some of you guys really need to step away from your keyboard and go and get a life’,but then I realised its me who is wrong,you guys are just internet monoliths and its your destiny to joust and argue it out with your ernormous internet cocks of knowledge,after all that’s what forums are for.Isnt the internet great.

I felt these posts/opinions where dictatorial removing the freedom of choice form others.

Ah, as opposed to “dictatorial” removing the freedom of choice from other forum users. Gotcha.

you are perfectly entitled to voice them, as most of us regulars know who you are

I’d like to think that I’m entitled to voice an opinion (and everyone else is too of course) irrespective of who knows me.

I’m not sure that having “moderator” next to your name always helps

You may well be right, but that’s their failing rather than mine. (-:

The only problem I’ve really seen with being ‘out’ as it were is that occasionally people use it as an excuse to make pissy little comments, but I just ban ignore them. I do try, largely, to keep my “user” and “moderator” hats separate.

It’s what chat forums are for, yes.

highclimber – Member
Criticising religious beliefs is not ignorance, intolerance or hypocritical.
POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

I think you may be missing my point…

all schools (inc private ones) should follow a specific curriculum (with the inference that it had no religious element)

So in your view private schools should be allowed to teach whatever they like, and be under no obligation to teach anything in particular (and anyone who disagrees is just the same as religious extremists)?

Why do we have compulsory education at all I wonder?

There is an awful lot of ignorance on this thread – together with a lot of prejudice, intellectual conceit and I can only imagine a significant amount of hypocrisy.

Disappointing really…

Thanks for your contribution, it’s really raised the bar.

So in your view private schools should be allowed to teach whatever they like, and be under no obligation to teach anything in particular? And anyone who disagrees is just the same as religious extremists.

@grum, there is a significant difference from teaching whatever you like (including religious hatred) and having to follow a curriculum laid down by Government. Private schools are subject to numerous guidelines and Ofsted inspection. One may disagree with others in terms of religious beliefs but IMO it is incorrect to force those anti-religious beliefs onto others in terms of banning religious education in schools or faith schools in totality.

Sorry grum, I beg forgiveness. It’s just that people’s rabid often knee-jerk intolerance of others intolerance always strikes me as a little absurd. Also many of the arguments used here are pseudo-intellectual whilst making pretence at being intellectual. Pretentiousness and conceit are not attractive qualities….

You haven’t raised the bar far yourself…

You haven’t raised the bar far yourself…

To be honest there is only so much you can do with the subject matter.

One may disagree with others in terms of religious beliefs but IMO it is incorrect to force those anti-religious beliefs onto others in terms of banning religious education in schools or faith schools in totality.

Why? I’m loving all the strawmen/ad hominem stuff by the way.

jamj1974 – you’re not under any obligation to read or contribute to any particular thread. Coming on here and non-specifically whining about how awful it is is hardly constructive or helpful.

IMO it is incorrect to force those anti-religious beliefs onto others in terms of banning religious education in schools or faith schools in totality.

It’s not forcing anti-religious beliefs onto others – it’s telling others they can’t force their religious beliefs onto children.