Anthrax laced heroin.

Yup – you've got one massive chip on yer shoulder Sir. The world and its inhabitants can't be forced into your good / bad worldview.

Some MTBers are kind, pleasant people. Some are just c0cks. Some junkies are evil, bike thieving, granny mugging tossers, some are kind, pleasant people with a problem no-one is able to help them with.

For the record, as an MTBer, I can't help feeling you fall into the latter category.

Chubbyblokeinlycra…are you Jeremy Kyle in disguise? If you had a kid (Somebody gets REALLY drunk at a party and sleeps with you)and they end up an addict,would you still feel the same way?

Junkyard; well said (never thought I woud type that)

CBIL – What if the heroin addict attacks/mugs apensioner who has never worked and been chronically alchoholic all hs life? Or old man who abuses children? Are these two people deserving of the violence that is eroniously linked with the drug? Is this a case of social eugenics happening? I think that by assuming that all old people are law obiding and have never done anything reproachable is a little nieve isn't it?

Also what about the fat peple who are too fat to work? Should they be put down ad left to rot? You have the assumption that by killing all people who do these things and these people not having children the problem goes away! Unfortunately I think you'll find this is not the case at all and to believe it is boardering on stupid enough to fall in to your own death trap. I will laugh when the CBIL SS come round and inject you with zyclone B becaus eyou have failed to meet you own criteria for worthy of life!

Why not burn all the poppy fields of Afghanistan and actively shoot all the traffickers and hang their bodies from trees?

You know- do it the Arab way. With force instead of **** around trying to appeal to peoples good nature when they havent even been brought up with the same western-bollocks ethics?

Go to the source and stop **** around.

Its totally impossible to do that. While ever there are humans there will be drugs/crime. Heroin use is documented in egyption times. Oh and go to Afghanistan and burn all the poopy fields? Isn't that what were supposed to be doing right now? Only I'm sure we've stopped because to win the hearts and minds of the people out there we have to help them make a living and guess what, growing heroin for drug trafficing is how they make a living.

alex222, Lewis Hamilton would sort Afghanistan out 😉

+1 😆

Alonso may be just slightly better at it though.

really? the people who go to work every day paying their taxes to keep the junkie scum in benefits and methadone? well, i'm ashamed of myself, i really am
i've never broken in to someone's house to fund an addiction I was stupid enough to get involved in and I don't sell my body either. I believe we are resposible for our own actions
How does our society survive with people like me in it?

Well only if you think that your ability to pay taxes entirely defines your worth as a person.

I agree with GrahamS – your experience has (perhaps understandably) turned you into an extremely bitter and vindictive person.

I suppose it's partly just the impersonal nature of the internet but there seems to be many people who revel in being uncaring, selfish and judgmental, as if it's something to be proud of.

As an agnostic leaning strongly towards atheism, I find myself strangely wondering whether some people do need a religious framework to learn tolerance, compassion, respect etc, when they seem to be unable to find it in themselves.

I feel sorry for drug addicts. Great waving your Guardian whilst sat in your pompous high throne.

Its why I stopped smoking drugs/Whizz etc when I was younger. One of the tactics used by dealers to get customers to become 'longterm' customers is to mix in harder drugs etc. So Coke users can unwittingly try something truly mindblowing. **** that. Sorry. I feel sorry for users- its the source that should feel alot of pain. Poppy farmers because its to feed their families? Oh my heart bleeds for them and the misery they cause. Thats all.

This problem exists everywhere now. I know people who deal with the consequences of drug taking. I was shocked and surprized how close to home this is and even exists in some pretty affluent areas. The worst thing for me are the effects it has on small children. Shameful stuff and truly heart wrenching!

Re-introducing the death penalty for drug dealing and trafficing would go a long way to ridding the streets of this toxic filth. We did away with capital punishment because convictions were/are sometimes unsafe. In other parts of the world, tolerance to drug dealing is zero. I expect their take is that thay'd rather rid themselves of the lowlife that pedal drugs, rather than rehabilitate. I think deterring this behaviour is a secondary matter. Harsh, but is it effective?

You then hear about the poverty stricken farmers in places like Afghanistan. Why can't they just grow food? What are their useless governments doing about it? We may not understand their culture, but if it's causing mayhem in our community we need to intervene. Our efforts there should be all about erradicating the opium trade. I'd buy into the war there if this was the justification, not the current implausible excuse (i'm still unsure why we are out there with our people getting killed).

Sure enough, drugs are a cause of a lot of misery for all, but I believe you have to tackle the issues that leads an individual to start using this stuff. This is the real crux of the matter.

Abusive and or neglectful parenting has a lot to do with producing a fresh crop of new users. If you have two or three generations of a family who haven't a clue, what chance have you got?

Then there are stupid people who have absolutely no self-control, who like taking crazy risks, but who have otherwise completely stable settled lives. I feel little sympathy for these hedonistic selfish types, but they fall victim just like all the rest.

I really have no idea how you fix this problem. Education clearly hasn't worked, nor a softly softly approach, neither has a firm one. Political correctness wouldn't allow a very robust intervention such as what I have suggested at the beginning of this post. Legalising and regulating doesn't work either. So we have deadlock while the problem spirals. Depressing!!

Anyone got any sensible ideas for a solution?

Well surely its the society that has more or less forced them into growing it as a source of income.

These people are very poor also and uneducated. Perhaps the war lords that effectively force them into growing it in the first place are really the ones answerable? Unfortunately its one big cycle that will never end, while ever there is demand people will grow it, however you may argue that by it being there in the first place creates the demand. Which came first the addict or the grower?

It will never end but in reality its less of a drain on society then alchohol, cigarettes and fat cluckers or even pension stealing bankers.

You can't beat a good bit of recreation every now and again though can you.

The frankly scarey and closed minded opinions of some of this forum's users are, im my opinion, part of the problem.

As cited many times already, addicts don't set out to become addicts. The illegal drug world is also not simply supply driven, the notion of 'pusher men' corrupting people with no desire to take drugs is also a bit of a fabrication.

So why do people take drugs? Because we live in a society where we're not preapred to do enough to take care of the least fortunate. The majority of users have lives so depressing that we can't begin to imagine what motivates them. A more philanthropic society where people didn't think that the disadvantaged should be poisoned (or killed!), where we were all more prepared to contribute more to the communal pot would have the benefit of reducing the disparity in wealth we currently see and provide more hope to those who clearly need All of our help.

Merry Xmas.

William S. Burroughs

Anthony Keidis
To the best of my knowlege both of these junkies pay (or have paid) taxes,don't rob or steal (although Burroughs did shoot somone in a somewhat tragic accident!), but are both well respected in the individual fields, both are (were) cursed with addictive personalites.

Rapid dogs……………..

lycra man
come round to a few addresses with me on xmas morning pal,
have a look at young kids sleeping on the floor in a room with no furniture, and no presents at all, only thing they will get at xmas is a punch, or if a little less lucky a good shagging!
this is the reality of life in 2009, and i dont police an inner city area, there are dozens of kids in that position this xmas where i work, and a lot of them live that kind of 'life' 365 days a year
its no wonder they turn to drugs, i find your comments unbelievable, and doubt if you would make them if you knew what lives some kids live in.
i dont like smackheads, they do some terrible things to fund their addiction, and it would be easy to say 'put them down, its no loss'
but it really isnt as easy as that

have a look at young kids sleeping on the floor in a room with no furniture, and no presents at all, only thing they will get at xmas is a punch, or if a little less lucky a good shagging!

This sounds a bit dramatic, but it really is happening.

I know of a child who was re-homed and said to the foster carer, "Is this my bed?" Foster carer sas "yes", child says, "but it's dry and clean!"

I know of another case where the child didn't get fed except at school. Their clothes never got washed and the child was overjoyed to come to school each day. He was 6 years old and often left home alone.

And other cases of children covered in bruises.

In all these cases the parent/s were discovered to be drug addicts.

There are others I could mention, but frankly are too harrowing to even think about.

And I totally reject the argument that it's the fault of our society that forces an individual into taking drugs. Utter utter nonsense! If this was true, there would be vastly more drug users in this country. Being poor is not an excuse. There are many more poor people who get by.

I heard Michael Caine say today that there are 30,000 drug users on benefits in this country. Shameful!

What we need is for individuals to accept a lot more personal responsibility, instead of blaming someone/something else all the time!!!

No you're right, sorry – in one of them rich middle-class IT managers put themselves at risk of harm requiring rescue services and NHS treatment deliberately for fun

This is the most offensive thing in this thread, Im a 19 year old student, how dare you tar me with that brush!

Rapid dogs……………..

Best. Typo. Ever.

And I totally reject the argument that it's the fault of our society that forces an individual into taking drugs. Utter utter nonsense! If this was true, there would be vastly more drug users in this country.

One in four out of control on drugs reports Daily Mail

How much does this scourge imapct society?

I have huge sympathy for the people who've lost a loved one to drugs, I have huge sympathy for those whose lives are blighted by the wreckage that surrounds junkies – I have no sympathy whatsoever for the people who choose to take illegal (or legal) drugs and then get themselves addicted, they are selfish, greedy idiots.

Saying that nobody chooses to become a junkie is shite- thats the same as saying noone 'chooses' to become a cigarette smoker – of course they do, they CAN stop, any addict CAN stop, its just that its not always easy to do, well – life 'aint always easy, so crack on and stop moping in self pity – the more we feel sorry for someone who chooses to do that with their life, the more they are allowed to wallow in victimhood and not take responsibility for pulling themselves back up out the hole, the best thing we can do as a society is offer them ladders out that hole, not give them methadone to let them stay down there.

In the same way, I have huge sympathy for those who have lost a loved one to mountain biking, parachuting and soldiering – however none whatsoever for the people who chose to take the gamble themselves and lose. If I get killed doing something that I enjoy, I wouldn't want anyone to feel sorry for me, I'd want them to realise that I died doing something I loved, and theres no better way to go! The soldiers I know feel pretty much the same about their own lives, they know the risks, but your hearts go out to the families and kids left behind.

A few years ago, someone I worked with stole certain incredibly strong drugs from work and took them recreationally, her boyfriend OD'd on them and died, very messy all round! Do I feel sympathy for him? not one bit. Should I? No, not one bit, he took it knowing it was a dangerous drug, and he lost. – should I feel sympathy for Katie, a lovely girl, who ended up losing her boyfriend, job, friends and spent a year and a half in the nick, all because she stole drugs from work and gave them to her boyfriend? should I really feel sorry for her? I don't think so, she was a bloody idiot, a nice girl, who did something bloody stupid and paid the price for doing so, sorted herself out and came out a better person for it.

That doesn't mean she's worthless, or a member of the untermensch, but she still has to take the responsibility for her actions.

Zulu Eleven, your final anecdote concerning the recreational drug use of an ex colleague has no bearing on drug addiction or the issues that inevitabley surround it. However what it does do and what the rest of your post re enforces, is highlight your absolute lack of knowledge on the subject beyond what you have gleaned from the lower reaches of the right wing media and alerts the rest of us to avoid your future postings if we may be searching for anything other than ill informed, Littlejohnesque twaddle.

Merry Xmas.

the drug users i come across are not rich recreational users , playing at it
they are taking drugs to escape something that has happened to them, i dont think i can ever convince the doubters on here, just wish i could show you what a pathetic,dreadful, loneley,life they lead

As cited many times already, addicts don't set out to become addicts

No. I agree. In my view, for some users all its takes is a wrongturn or a bit of bad luck and they'll increase their recreational usage to help them over the rough patch. I know many people over the years who have recreationally used Skunk, coke etc and they know its cool to say 'it gives them a buzz' and 'how much they partied the other night'.

The sad thing is its already got a hold on them. Just waiting for something to happen in their life 🙁

Trailmonkey – really, I only know about this from "right wing media?"

I'll Happily take you for a drive around North Yorks and point out the houses of the Smack users I've known over the years, both of those who got addicted and those who didn't.

I'll also point out a few chronic pot users, including my brother, and a few alcoholics, and a couple of people with eating disorders, a few gamblers.

How are then any different? They're all addicts, they all choose their own fate, otherwise everyone who drank would be an alcoholic "waiting to happen."

Tell you what, I've taken drugs recreationally, I've been through shit in my life, I've been depressed – why don't I just give up and relax, stop being ambitious and driven and wallow in my own self pity, why don't I stop working and let you guys pay for my house and food, shite, you might as well pay for me to spend my days and nights shitfaced on fairy liquid, why should I even bother? **** sight easier than dragging my arse into work every day!

The "take drugs to escape something dreadful that has happened to them" is no reasoning – otherwise everyone who had something bad happen to them would have carte blanche to go and throw their lives down the toilet, the fact that people DO get over addiction, the fact that not everyone who's been through shit in their lives ends up an addict shows that its a personal choice, not a predetermined outcome.

I find myself strangely wondering whether some people do need a religious framework to learn tolerance, compassion, respect

Hallelujah!

Zulu-eleven has pretty much read my mind.

the fact that not everyone who's been through shit in their lives ends up an addict shows that its a personal choice, not a predetermined outcome

Does it ? I'd say that it quite clearly shows that some people are predetermined to react to trauma or distress in different ways to others. Do you know the work of John Gaunt ? Get some for Xmas, you'll love it.

Ah, predetermined?

So, next time we've got a thread about fatties, we should all feel sorry for them because some of them overeat to cope with stress/unhappiness/depression – because they're "predetermined" to do so?

Deadly serious question there trailmonkey – because *some* do it to cope with problems in their life, should we feel sorry for fatties? is food addiction any different from smack addiction?

"…addicts – choose their own fate" – wow, that's harsh, perhaps you should reflect on that statement and be glad that you've been dealt a better hand. Lots of drug users work and pay tax, lots of "straight" people are benefit thieves.

Burning poppy fields in Afghanistan isn't going to solve anything – we need to have a long hard look at why folk need to be anaesthetised against life.

Maybe politicians need to be looking at the gap between the haves and the have-nots? (eg expenses scam – duck house ffs?) The seeming impunity from the law that the rich/famous enjoy? The lure/false promises of advertising?

Also, I think I read that some people are genetically predisposed towards addiction. So, if someone is genetically predisposed to cancer, should they be left to rot too?

I find myself strangely wondering whether some people do need a religious framework to learn tolerance, compassion, respect

No. I abhore religion. I do beleive in God but I do not beleive in mind control by other humans.

I am tolerant, compassionate and respect others. This was self-learnt through the ability to EMPHASISE 🙂

Tried, but can't keep out of this one!!
My job brings me into contact with addicts daily.
Some nice, some leeches on society once addicted and some leeches on society before they were addicted but now have an excuse!!
Relative was a junky for years, she turned her life around and is now married. She is guess one of those that some in this thread would have given up on?
But don't go thinking am soft on addicts. EVERYONE comes to a junction in life and most make a conscious decision to take a specific fork. have had the opportunity to use cocaine, cannabis, speed and heroin. Some friends did, I never chose to. Had I made the conscious decision to use, who's fault would the consequences have been? The dealer, no not really. There are hundreds of deadly things available to us, when a fatal car crash occurs, is it Fords fault…..
We are all individuals who's choices are there to be made. We live in a free country. Death, taxes and jail if we do wrong are unavoidable and will be enforced by the state, everything else is choice.
I go to lots of overdoses, all sad but only because it is a human life. The majority of OD's are of benefit to society as a whole, each addict is responsible for a MASSIVE slice of crime in his/her local area,but not to the family who have lost a much loved son, daughter, mother or father.
When you see the children who are involved in the life of a junkie, it is shocking.
I shall stop now or else i could go on for days.
It's a shame that this link is off line, it would open some eyes on this forum but the introduction is very informative. Favorite it and re visit when it is up and running again, if you bothered to post on this thread you should see it.
http://www.talesofgloucester.co.uk/

Saying that nobody chooses to become a junkie is shite- thats the same as saying noone 'chooses' to become a cigarette smoker

it's not i chose to be a smoker – i did not choose to become addicted. too seperate but related things. do you drink? if you do then have you chosen to be an alcoholic? no of course not.

of course you chose to become addicted.
start smoking become addicted.simple.

Legalising and regulating doesn't work either.

Doesn't it?

The thing that gets me is after reading all this is that it is a known fact that drugs DO screw up peoples lives and not just the folk taking them.

We are supposed to be an "educated" society and everyone has been through the education system (remember it is law) and a legal system that has outlawed drugs

Is the words NO THANK YOU (to drugs) that hard to use, please explaine

No I am not whiter than white I have been absolutly clattered (pissed) on many occasion, and stepped over the line on many occasion but never have my actions inflicted misery on othere people

Is the words NO THANK YOU (to drugs) that hard to use, please explaine

I have been absolutly clattered on many occasion

Clearly the answer for you, and most other people, is yes.

clattered on beer I hasten to say sorry rich I should of said pissed I guess

clattered on beer

Which as we all know is fine and never causes anyone any harm and definitely isn't a drug.

Alcoholics are just as bad as any other addicts IMO and I think saladdodger would agree.

Yeah we should kill them all as well as the smackheads, along with disabled people and gypsies. Merry christmas. 😐

I am tolerant, compassionate and respect others. This was self-learnt through the ability to EMPHASISE

And you even put "emphasise" in capitals. If I wasn't familiar with your postings I'd be tempted to think there was a spark of comedy genius present.